Aeroponics discussion thread for HPA/AAA and maybe another grow

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I used a hot glue gun. I dont do needle point - couldnt sew my way out of a paper bag :wink: Just cut the bottom out of one of them - save that piece for hatch covers, etc - cut off any handles, then hot glue them together to get the height you want. In my case, 2ea 30 gal bags ended up at 55 gallons total.

I would imagine rolls are available, but I have no clue where to look.

Search Amazon for “Grow Bags” or “Fabric Pots” - there are a gazillion sizes and shapes - including square.

Im going to do a recap on my set up shortly…

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The system is working really well right now and I am more than pleased with how the roots are doing. This new setup is by far the best I have come up with so far when it comes to getting fuzzy roots. So, I think it might be worth going over some of the key details for anyone who may want to try to duplicate it.

@GnomeyByNature mentioned before about someone coming up with a turnkey system someone could just buy and set up.

This is NOT that :slight_smile: This is a 100% DIY, shade tree engineering on a super thin budget. Its not elegant, or pretty - but - it works :slight_smile: Pretty much anyone should be able to duplicate it.

At the same time - this is not the only way to do it or the only good solution. As with pretty much any other part of growing out plants, there are a million different “best” ways to skin the cat. Also, my setup probably wouldnt work nearly as easily outdoors. I suspect you would need to go to extra lengths to keep the root chamber cooled down, and protect the electronics from outside weather, rain etc.

Here is an old drawing I did of the basic setup. The details have changed and I left out a lot of stuff, but this is the basic idea for indoor growing.

There are only two things about my grow tent that are even a little unusual.

  1. It sits up on my work bench.
  2. It has a 1" thick foam floor on top of the wood bench top inside the tent. That foam floor is mainly to keep heat from the grow space from getting down into the root chamber. Plus it is a lot easier to cut holes in 1" foam than 3/4" plywood :slight_smile:

I cut a 24" diameter round hole in the wooden top of the work bench centered in the tent. Then I attached the stitched together grow bags to the wood top using wood screws. It needs to be fairly secure because a significant weight in roots can build up inside on the floor, but you dont need to go over board. The fabric is pretty tough.

Be sure to seal up all around the edges so there are no air or light leaks. Keep those two things in mind at all stages.

P.S. remove all helpful kittens before you turn on the nozzles for the first time!

The nozzles Im using now are the brass and stainless Delavan 30609-8. I went cheap and made my own adapters for the air fittings.

0724192010

A short piece of 3/8" push fit tubing will slide over the water fitting end and the O-ring just perfect. You could easily use 3/8" for the air line too.

This is an early version of how I set up two nozzles in the bottom. The nozzles can pivot up/down and you can turn the PVC pipe to change the angle from side to side.

In the newest version, the nozzles are fixed at about a 45 deg angle as far as up/down, but I can still turn the PVC pipe from side to side.

I use a heat gun to soften up about a 2" long end section of a piece of 3/4" PVC pipe, then press it flat on the work bench or in a vice. Hold the rest of the pipe at the angle you want while it cools. Then drill some holes and zip tie the nozzle in place.

In this new version, I run the 3/4" PVC pipes all the way up and through the foam floor - which is also now the ceiling of the root chamber. I run the air lines inside that pipe so they stick out at the top. The solenoid attaches close to the pipe, then the air lines run to the regulator which is just outside the tent.

Seal up the top of the PVC pipe and all around any openings, etc - remember - no light or air leaks!!

Also, be sure your tubing is opaque or cover it with aluminum foil to keep light out. If you dont, algae might grow on the inside due to moisture in the air lines. Those cheap water traps do not keep out all moisture.


The siphon tank is that cut down carnation dairy creamer container in the pic above. The float valve fits inside. Drill holes for the water lines that are a tad small, then force the tubing in and seal up with hot glue inside and out. I sand all around the openings and the tubing with coarse sandpaper to help the glue bond. I have had no leaks yet in almost 2 years.

As you can see, the nozzles are in the bottom shooting up at roughly a 45 deg angle.

When the babies are first put in the system, I point both nozzles toward the center of the chamber. This maximizes the amount of mist directly hitting the net pots. You want to keep them extra wet at first to help them get over the transplant shock. I also crank up the flow rate until the baby roots stay covered in lot of droplets. I keep it that way until they start to grow again. That usually only takes maybe 2 to 3 days at most.

Watch your flow rates. mist quality and density all through this time. While you are flooding the chamber is a good time to see how it looks - just dont dry out the roots while playing around.

Once the roots start growing, I lowering the flow rate gradually until I start seeing fuzzy hairs. I also start to turn the nozzles so they point more to the side are not hitting the roots as directly. I turn them both so they create a rotation in the mist causing it to swirl in a circular motion around the chamber. This is when you really need to start looking at hang times and watching the roots closely to be sure they stay in the Goldilocks zone of just right wetness :slight_smile:

All of these changes should be done in small steps, while you look at the roots every few hours. Make a small change in timing or nozzle position, then wait 3 or 4 hours and see how it looks. I take lots of pics to I can do before/after comparisons. Changes can happen very fast as I outlined earlier. If you keep a close eye on things, you can get it dialed in over maybe a day or two at most.

If you screw up and the roots get damaged, dont stress too much. The plants can recover from an amazing amount of damage. Trust me on this one. I have stress tested many babies LOL!!!

About the only other thing is my rez. Its an old, very thick plastic icechest. It holds maybe 12 gallons max, but I rarely go over 8 gallons unless Im going to be away for several days. I use 2 liter frozen bottles of water too keep it cool. I also have an aquarium pump inside the rez to circulate and mix the water when I do refills.

I think thats about it… oh - 200 mesh filters on the air and water lines.

oh - here is the latest root pic.

EDIT: Added a couple of pics above that I forgot.

Minor up-date.

Im up to 1 sec ON x 65 sec OFF. That gives me the following flow numbers:

2.98 litters/day
2.28 ml/cycle
0.041 ml/gal/cycle
0.054 litter/day/gallon of chamber

I have been increasing the OFF times very slowly, and so far the roots are loving it. There is a trade off here and some risk as you start to dry things out as far as how much excess water is visible on the roots. If you go too far of course the roots get too dry and the roots will start to air prune.

The less obvious risk is if you have a senior/growing while stoned moment or a power failure and the nozzles stay OFF too long. Some excess water on the roots will allow them to last longer with no mist cycles. A few days ago, when I was running somewhat wetter, I screwed up and left the nozzles OFF for almost 5 hours and they did just fine. There was almost no air pruning, but some of the more horizontal strands had started to sag as well as the leaves.

As usual with our plants its a balancing act.

Its been just about 5 days since I stopped using the bad pool shock and 4 days since I saw fuzzies. here is a before/after pic.

Oh - I was going to grow some more of @ReikoX Ghost toof x SBR, but the seeds I started are not looking good. I think I need to get some fresh clean perlite. The stuff I have been using has some old algae in it.

I managed to snag some Mephisto Genetics Canna-Cheese 1:1 autos yesterday. I still have plenty of meds made from the last round of Ghost toof, so I think I will give the Mephisto’s a shot for my next grow. The seeds should be here in a few days :slight_smile:

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The bottle of lab grade 70% calcium hypoclorite arrived and I just mixed up a batch.

I used 4 gram of the powder x .7 = 2.8 gm of chlorine in 1 gallon of water.

So 2.8g/3785 ml = .00074 g/ml. If I add 10ml of that mix for each 1 gallon of water in my rez, that = .0074g/3785ml = right at 1.95 PPM of free chlorine.

My rez currently has about 4 gallons of water in it, so I added 40 ml of the concentrated mix to the rez.

Now we wait and see how the fuzzy hairs react…

Oh - Im pretty sure I dropped a decimal point when I mixed up my last batch of shock. This new mix barely smell compared to the last batch. This powder dissolves very well by the way.

Can’t you just soak your perlite in a solution of your pool shock? Then maybe rinse it out after?

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Apparently chlorine smells more the more it’s reacting with bacteria.

“ It is a common misconception that when you smell chlorine either at home in your backyard at your pool or while visiting a pool park or waterslide. That it means there is too much chlorine. In fact it is quite the opposite. Now common sense would lead you to believe that if something smells it means there is a lot or it has been rotting, in chlorine’s case it means that it has been working.

Chloramines – What Creates That Chlorine Smell

Here is how it works. When you add chlorine to your pool water those tiny chlorine particles attach themselves to tiny debris or bacteria particles and create chloramines. These chloramines are basically killed bacteria or particles that have been taken care of by chlorine. But now that you have these chloramines they need to be disposed of. That happens by oxidizing or shocking your pool. This causes those particles to turn into oxygen, hence oxidize, and escape into the air. It’s at this point when that chlorine is no longer in the water but in the air allowing you to smell it. So what you actually smelling is the chlorine escaping out of the pool doing its job. However since you smell the chlorine in the air, it means that it may not be working to kill more in the pool water. When chlorine is in water you cannot smell it. It’s the tell tale sign that it is time for you to add more chlorine. I hope this has cleared this myth up!”
http://www.thepoolclinic.com/2011/04/18/chlorine/

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I actually tried that, but I decided I didnt trust the final product. It was discolored - off white. I suspect the perlite traps a lot of crap in all those millions of tiny pockets. I have a giant bag out in the garage, so no biggie to get new. Im just lazy and have been re-using this batch for several grows.

Chlorine has a definite smell - sniff your bleach bottle some time :wink:

I was talking about the smell from the freshly mixed up jug of concentrate. It was much milder than with the stuff I mixed up before. I can hardly detect it in the rez. Im pretty sure now that I made that last batch about 10 times stronger than it should have been!

I actually think I used this proportion where I thought I used too much as I thought I read it should be closer to 3ml of 3% (not 35%) h202 per gallon… any idea which it is? lol

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I have no clue. Its been too long since I messed with H2O2, but Im guessing if you follow the directions you will be fine :slight_smile:

While Im waiting on the Mephisto seeds I decided to try a couple more experiments.

First, I want to see if I can start a plant in the system from seed rather than using the mini-hempy bucket dixie cups I have been using. This would be more wasteful of nutes, power, etc, but would save on transfer shock when going from the perlite to the AA system. It might be worth it for the savings in growing time - maybe.

Ive been thinking about this for some time. What ever technique is used it needs to meet several criterion.

  1. It needs to hold the seed in place so it will be exposed to the mist.
  2. The seed needs to be kept out of the light until it is ready to sprout.
  3. The roots need to be able to easily grow down into the chamber.
  4. The sprout needs to have an easy way to push up through the puck to get to the light.
  5. The new plant needs support to hold it up until the roots can lock onto the net pot.

Im not sure my idea will work and satisfy all the above, but here it is.

First, I modify a foam puck so the hole in the center is large enough for a sprout to push up through easiy - I hope. Then take a small piece of fabric batting and hold that in place while inserting the foam puck into the net pot in such a way that the fabric is tight against the bottom of the puck. Drop a seed in and hope :slight_smile:




Finally, cover the hole with a scrap piece of fabric pot material.

I did not soak the seed ahead of time, so we will see how it does all on its own.

The second experiment was to see how a new seedling would do if it was put into the system at the same timing that I have been running the last few weeks. Normally, I go way over board on the flow rate to be sure the seedling has an excess of mist during the transplant shock period. I wanted to see if thats really necessary.

Unsurprisingly, it turns out it is necessary. The new seedling fell over flat on its face within about 4 hours. I then turned the nozzles so they were spraying more directly on the net pots, and reduced the OFF time a bunch. It took about another 6 hours for it to stand back up, but its looking happy now. Im going to give it a while longer to get adjusted - until I see some new root growth - then start lowering the flow rate again and slowly turning the nozzles off to the sides.

I just saw this on another thread:

Yup, I think I def burned my seedlings up at +3ml per gallon… good to know tho, thx :pray:t2:

So I have an idea for you that I also want to try and have already received a long time ago what I’m about to show you, but, since you are ready to go, maybe you can try it if you want…

Have you seen these:
[EZ Clone 706460 EZ-Coco Seed Starts (35/Pack)

Amazon.com : Ez Clone 706460 EZ-Coco Seed Starts (35/Pack) : Patio, Lawn & Garden]

Maybe you can put a seed in one of these down deep in a net cup and then simply block out the light with a non modified foam puck… check on it every once in a while and if it sprouts or turns into a lil seedling, remove the puck for a lil bit til it gets more established And at some point try to pull the coco disc with seedling up and then wrap the foam collar around it as usual.

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My bottle of 30% food grade H2O2 says 1-2.5ml per gallon.

I’ve been doing 1 as maintenance, but did start at 2.5ml.

I guess that would make sense… 3ml of 3% … 1ml of 30%?

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Thats an interesting idea, but dont those things turn to a loose clump of small fibers once they get wet? Ive never used coco, so I have no clue. Im afraid it would just fall through the net pot.

I like your idea! I think I will try it with some changes.

Along this same line, my idea for starting seeds directly in the system is working very well in one way and not so well in another - which is why Im going to try your idea…

I just put one seed in the modified net pot as above, with no pre-soak. At the same time, I started another seed soaking in water, then put it in a paper towel as soon as it started to show a root.

Then the next day, I took both seeds out and compared them. The presoak seed is on the left. They look pretty much identical to me.

So the good news is this works just fine to start a seed directly in the system. I still worry about seeds that dont pop. You will end up wasting a lot of nute, power etc if one doesnt pop. So, its going to be cheaper to start the old fashioned way. But this technique should eliminate any transfer shock, and is just as fast.

Now the bad. This is what the seed in the puck looked like the next day. The new root has turned down and is trying to grow into the fabric - but - the seed head has been pushed off to the side and partly under the puck. It looks to me like it is wedged in there. I worry it will never make it up.

The fabris has sagged slightly under the puck, leaving room for the seed to get pushed off to the side. I rigged up some plastic tubing inside the net pot to try to hold the fabric tight against the puck, but it isnt working great. I moved the fabric over slightly so the seed head is centered again.


BUT… I like your idea much better. I dont have any coco, but I will just use this same fabric and cut it down so it fits in the bottom of the net pot. Then cover the top and see what happens. I decided to use the same puck with the enlarged hole so that a little light could get down to the seed. I covered the hole loosely with some more fabric and a layer of dark fabric so just a bit of light can get through. We will see if this works.


In the other net pot, the new seedling that started in the perlite is doing well. The roots are growing nicely, so I have started lowering the flow rate and turning the nozzles back to where they were with the other plants. I should start to see fuzzy hairs soon…I hope :slight_smile:

yesterday

Today

I have never used this stuff, but 30% is 10 times as concentrated as 3%, so I would think/guess that the dosing should also be 10 times the difference. That would mean 1/10th as much of the 30% stuff.

So 3ml of 3% should equal 0.3 ml of 30%?

Again, Im just going off the math, not actual experience.

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Yeah mathematically it would be 0.3… if you wanted to go with the 3% you could stick with 3ml.
I have a lot of gallons so it’s easier to use a few ml of the stronger 30%. 1ml/gal has been working great. (the bottle states 1-2.5ml/gal as a dosage.)
(I have used the over the counter pharmacy hydrogen peroxide at 3ml per gallon in the past. That one is usually a lot weaker… <10%)

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I am worried the root will just go straight down through the fabric instead of spreading out inside the net pot like it usually does. I want the roots to lock onto the net pot for support. Si I changed things by adding several layers of fabric. Hopefully, that will let the roots branch out so they can lock on to the pot. I also went ahead and used a standard puck. I figure the small hole in the center will let plenty of light through so the new seed and see which way to grow.


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My concern with you my method is that maybe the spray could knock off the seed or that with all this layers, the layer it’s sitting on doesn’t get wet enough?

As far as that specific coco, I believe it also has something else in it which makes it pretty rigid, but it might eventually get soft over time, hopefully long enough that you could get a seedling tall enough to go into the puck… they’re only like $6, so maybe it’s worth a try for you… the only thing is, not sure if the hole in the center of them would be the appropriate size for your seed.

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Good point! I dont think there is enough air pressure to move a seed, but it would probably be safer if I cut the fabric a little bigger so it cupped up the sides of the net pot just a little. This seed with the root already sticking out seems stable enough. I I try this again with a fresh seed, I will do the cuped fabric thing for sure.

As far as the wetness, I pre-soak the fabric in rez water. The mist seems to have no trouble keeping it wet after that.

I might try that if this doesnt work out the way I hope.

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I think those coco collars have some mixed reviews fyi, but I personally was like, it’s only six bucks if it doesn’t work and if it does, that would be a pretty convenient way to start…

I wonder if you could throw one of those Rapid rooters in there (albeit a bit more expensive)?

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I dont think Im going to need anything special. Im pretty sure the roots will grow into this fabric just fine. I used the same fabric in a previous hydro grow when I was trying NFT. As long as its wet, the roots dont really care, and I dont need any nutes in the medium. Im actually more worried about the fabric or coco etc holding too much water and slowing the roots down. In any case, we will know in a day or two. Things should happen very fast when there is no shock involved.

Speaking of transfer shock - the other baby has been in the system about two days now and I have fuzzy hairs!

Looking back at those pics I took about 3 hours ago, there was just the barest hint that they might have been starting, and now there are fuzzies.

fuzzystart1

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