Ok, 3rd iteration…I dont like the idea of having something in the net pot that holds a lot of water. The whole point of aero is the air part Plus Im worried about the roots that are in a large chunk of soaking wet fabric getting over wet and starting some rot issues.
So, Im back to a single layer of fabric, but I want it up right under the bottom of the puck. Im hoping that will allow the roots to branch out while still inside the net pot so they can have better support.
So, I tied some string in a web just under the bottom of the puck, and cut a piece of fabric just a bit over size so it forms a cup - to keep the seed from rolling out. We will see how this one goes…
Im not going to put the puck in place. Its too hard to remove without messing up the seed. Im just going to cover the pot with some plastic for now. Once the seedling starts to grow, I will use a plastic cup or tupperware container to cover it until it gets large enough to lock it in the puck.
Yeah, I think twice before they have shown up this early, but other times it has taken more than a week. I suspect it depends on several things, but the slowest times were when I had algae/slime/PH issues in the rez. That was back when I was still using nutes with organic crap in them. Fuzzies are temperamental
Up-date on the progress with starting seeds directly in the AA system.
The first one I started seems to be doing ok so far - but - I am concerned about the amount of water the fabric Im using is holding. It is dripping wet. When I take the net pot out to look at the progress, a ton of water drips off of the fabric. At least a table spoon or more. I worry that the roots will stay too wet or wont want to grow down out of that nice wet space. However, there is no sign that that is actually causing a problem - yet.
The new seedling is starting to grow vertically and is almost even with the top of the net pot. The root has penetrated the fabric and is starting to grow down. I had been using a mason jar lid to cover the top of the net pot, so I replaced that with a piece of fabric pot material with a small hole cut out for the sprout.
I have been trying to think of a way to do this that would not hold so much water, and be easier to do. I tried pulling/stretching the fabric and found that it is easy to stretch it out so that is is much thinner, and airier. It should hold a lot less water now. I took a small dixie cut and cut the bottom out of it, then trimmed it down so it fits inside the net pot. It will hold the fabric and seed just below where the bottom of a foam puck would be. This results in a lot less fabric that is also a lot thinner. Plus no string to mess with. That was a pain. I put two old seeds in this time in case one doesnt pop.
That looks good. How thick is it? What happens when it gets wet - does it swell up or hold its shape or fall apart?
So far the new fabric that I stretched and thinned out is looking good. Just small droplets on it and not dripping wet, so this may work fine. Actually, I may be worrying about the wet one for no reason. So far its doing great.
Lots of water is only a problem if there is no dissolved oxygen. Since it’s just a saturated piece of material in the air, there should be lots of oxygen hitting the water.
I will probably stick with the fabric batting I have on hand. I probably have enough to last me 20 grows or more, plus it seems to be working really well, so I see no real need to change it out. The seeds seem to be really happy so far.
The older baby is growing nicely on top and the root is growing fast. Another day or two at this rate and I will be ready to put the puck in place. Just the barest hint of fuzzies so far, but Im still misting pretty heavy and direct.
So far, I am really pleased with how this is working out. I really like the fact that there will be no transfer shock to deal with. I think that off sets the extra cost to run the entire system for a few days vrs leaving the seeds in paper towels and perlite dixie cups.
Ive been debating whether this would be safe enough to risk trying it with those expensive Mephisto seeds that are on the way. Unless there is some disaster between now and then, Im going to try it. I might soak the seeds in water until they pop though. We will see what kind of mood Im
Ok, first thing is I hate you for making my build look like amateur hour Looking great!!
But - I have a couple of questions?
Are you using the Delavan clone nozzles and adapters?
In siphon mode?
Is that the air regulator and solenoid in those pics?
Edit: never mind - forget all those questions. I am the one who was thinking backwards!
Time for an up-date on starting seeds in the AA system.
I have been having good success and bad success. So far, the first iteration with the unmodified fabric batting has worked the best - but - I had to poke a hole in the fabric to help the root get through. If I didnt do that, the baby plant just got pushed all over the top of the fabric while the root got longer, instead of the root growing down through the fabric.
So I tried pulling and thinning the fabric - same thing. Then I tried using thin cotton pads - same thing. The new seedling just grew on top of the fabric unless I poked a hole for the tap root.
I finally decided it was because there was nothing on top of the seed case to hold it in place so the root could force its way down.
So now Im trying a test by placing another piece of fabric on top of the tap root to weigh it down. We will see…
In the mean time, my Mephisto Canna-Cheese 1:1 seeds arrived and I started them soaking. Im going to wait until they pop, then place them on some cotton pads and then put another layer on top to hold it in place. I suspect I will have to remove the covering after a couple of days so the seedling can start growing vertically, but I want that tap root to get started down into the fabric.
The first baby I started from seed is doing very well. yesterday I started lowering the flow rate and angling the nozzles away from the net pots and today fuzzies are starting to show up much better.
I started soaking the Mephisto seeds yesterday and put them into the system tonight. That means the other two babies are now toast - but their sacrifice has been for a good cause
The older baby’s roots were really starting to grow with the beginnings of nice fuzzy hairs.
The younger one with the added fabric cover over the root was doing just fine. That extra layer of fabric did exactly what I wanted. It gave the shoot the leverage it needed to turn up and start growing vertically and also allowed the tap root to start growing down through the fabric.
If you’re up for it, would love to see how your top growth goes along with your root growth?
I think we talked about this, not sure tho, but I feel like it has been speculated that almost an excess of roots can be generated where you’re not getting a top growth that one might expect looking at the root growth?
Maybe you can confirm or dispel this?
Also, I’m pretty sure you can cut a certain amount of roots without detriment to prevent them from over taking your chamber.
Do you mean visually or? Im just guessing, but Id say the root mass generally keeps pace with the plant mass - more or less with a very large degree of uncertainty.
Sometimes it feels like the plant growth stalls because of a nute imbalance, PH etc, while the roots keep growing - BUT - thats just a guess. There is no way to weigh them to compare, and after the first few weeks, its impossible to see the entire root mass.
I have been meaning to weigh the root mass after a grow, but you would need to at least dry any excess water from the roots to do a fair comparison. Plus you would need to save all the trimming, stems, etc to know the total plant mass.
It would probably be better to compare dry weights. If so, I know roots dry down to next to nothing as far as weight. They are like cotton candy when totally dry.
Its just not been something I wanted to know badly enough to really mess with.
Ive read that, but I dont think thats limited to AA or HPA, or even hydro in general. Lots of ways to stunt top growth with no good way to see whats really going on with the roots. Also, I have proven you can kill off a lot of roots while the top just stops growing, so it can go both ways.
Ive read that too, but Im convinced it slows or even stops top growth when you do - at least for a while. Ive done it many times unintentionally!
I have also trimmed off the one long single tap root that usually goes racing to the bottom ahead of all the rest. I did that to see if it would trigger more side growth in the roots. It did, but it also seems to slow down things up top. I am not planning to do that again. I think its better to fine tune your ON/OFF times and over all flow rates to control down vrs side growth. More mist/wetter roots = faster down growth. Less mist/drier roots = more side growth.
As far as cutting to protect nozzles or what ever, I dont recommend that. If you have lots of fuzzy hairs, you can compress the root mass by hand if you want, but thats only a temporary solution. The fuzzy roots stick together like velcro and will stay compressed - but - new shoots just keep coming back. I worry about the compressed portions not getting enough air/water/mist and possibly developing rot.
In the end, I think its best to design the chamber to avoid that from the start.
Plus Im worried about the roots that are in a large chunk of soaking wet fabric getting over wet and starting some rot issues.
