Are bottled microbe products a ripoff? How can you be sure without a microscope?

This is why I love Rock Phosphate and Soft Rock Phosphate.
Very low solubility but a high amount of stored P for the whole plant cycle.
The low solubility encourages a bloom of P-solubilizing microbes so the plant/microbe biome can determine fir itself how much P is needed and thus how much P is solubilized.

And a cheap source if P-solubilizing microbes is good earth worm castings.
Mammoth P is an overpriced extraction of EWC microbes. And someone on PFA at Facebook proved EWC to be more effective than Mammoth P.

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I remember the Guardian scandal.
I was active on Probiotic Farmers Alliance and the product came out I think around 2014/15
The makers claimed its safe, organic, and just essential oils. So, Tony Levya of Bonyard seeds did a livestream where he drank a bottle of Guardian to prove its organic.
Well, he ended up hospitalized and amputated because of the fast-growing tumors in his body.
Soon after, all these farms popped hot for banned miticide.
Oregon decides to reevaluate Guardian and finds synthetic miticides and ovicides.
Last I heard, the two guys behind Guardian had to flee the country.

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Yeah, myco for cannabis is a marketing ploy.
Cannabis is bacterial dominant.
Its really perennials that benefit from myco.
Very few fungi help cannabis and in fact youā€™re better off using the pseudo-hyphae system of streptomyces and PNSB.

I usually use three cups to predigest nutrients for my plants, using dry amendments like crustacean meal, rock dusts, Espoma garden-tone, etc.
One cup/jar has food soaking in FulPower
One jar has food soaking in EM1
And one jar has food soaking in vinegar.

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an easy test would be to just brew some JMS/AEM with it and see how active the brew is compared to easily sourced inoculants like compost, EWC, leaf moldā€¦

oh and by the way, the ā€œAAā€ part of ā€œAACTā€ is just marketing bs to get you buying aquarium pumps :wink:

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Yes, the Pseudomonas, thats why i first laughed at it, but under suggestion i tryd on my same clone crop and it worked on giving a bump to the resin (im talkin same genetic, same room, same ferts)ā€¦but again i doubt its the pseudomonas, cause i do ACTs and i attibute the results to the alfalfa extract, also present in itā€¦

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The recent EM1 recipe (since like 2010 or so) is PNSB, LAB, Streptomyces. No more yeast.

Ive also done just LAB on some, EM1 on others and they were similar.
What I do get is the pseudohyphae when using EM1 but not when doing just LABs.

Your ACTs, are you using EWC?
Ive found the best composts to be EWC, Oly Mountain fish compost, and homemade. Ive brought back plants from the brink of death with each of those.
That reminds me, I need to get compost this weekend.

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Heres some pseudohyphae from EM1 on my soil now.

To get that myceliation is easier using kashi (solid state ferment) so using just the liquid EM1, I had to inoculate a few times - every watering for a week.

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Thatā€™s the truth, I think people want to believe itā€™s more complicated than it is. Maybe they hear and see all the high tech grow stuff at dispensaries or old growers making it sound mysterious. Or maybe people donā€™t understand anymore that when it comes to making or growing things, doing it often isnā€™t that hard, itā€™s doing it really consistently and at a high level of skill and control thatā€™s hard. I believe in that ten thousand hours thing when it comes to skills, Iā€™ve managed to achieve that in a couple things so far in life that were easy, then hard, then easy again. Weed seems just like that, itā€™s easy to grow something with the right set of directions, hard to learn to both react to and steer the plant the way we want it to express, and then easy again once you know your growing system and genetics.

I actually picked living organic soil because it seems like a simpler route to maximum quality than hydro to me, though Iā€™m learning that might not be a direct comparison. It was easy to buy good dirt and water it and then start adding bottled organic nutes, and use Recharge the whole time (grow shop guy pressed a few packets into my hand as I checked out with a 4x4, pots, dirt, etc and said youā€™ll like this, and he wasnā€™t wrong) and get a bunch of good weed. Itā€™s hard right now trying to change my systems up to get things where I want them to be, and I can see how itā€™ll be even easier once Iā€™m done, which is one of the goals.

This winter/spring is the first time in my life Iā€™ve had anyone willing to take some seeds and get growing at their place, so Iā€™m trying to keep things simple for them, especially if Iā€™m not going to be there to get hands on much or at all. That means telling them to get some decent organic potting soil and perlite/pumice or some ProMix and cloth pots locally at the garden centers Iā€™m sending them to, and then Iā€™m handing or mailing them seeds, some small glass bottles/jars of my weird, important, and cheap things like SEA-90, PureCrop1(definitely making a quart or two of the recipe that @Pier_Rat posted, thanks for reminding me about OpenSalts Wiki, dude!), Mr Fulvic, Recharge, and Mykos. And then for fertilizers I picked up 24 lb of Osmocote Plus Indoor/Outdoor from Walmart for $20/8lb bag and Iā€™m sending folks plenty of that for their weed and house and yard plants. Osmocote is a salt fertilizer plays nice with organics because of the time-released nature of it, thereā€™s never enough salts in the soil to mess with the food web the way raw salts will do. As long as you use some gypsum to balance back out and mobilize the long term salt deposits itā€™s supposed to be great for yearly use in yards, so thatā€™s what I do with our hedges and lawns, seems to really get them jumping up in the spring when I spread it around now, about 3-5 pounds a year in our 1/8 acre lot.
Or if they want to do fully organic, I tell them to order a bag of CoM Stonington Blend dry mix and a bag of their Pacific Fish Bone Meal, or go to Walmart or Loweā€™s for Dr Earth or Espoma Tomato-Tone. Tomato Tone fucking crushes with weed according to everyone who uses it, itā€™s too stinky for me inside with no odor control so it stays in my raised beds, but it makes nice tomatoes!

Anyways yeah, snake oil salesmen everywhere, we are in a real time for them in weed now that thereā€™s so many total noobs going on Google and getting sucked Iā€™m by some asshole with a big SEO budget instead of ending up here and learning about the better ways, including how simple and cheap growing is if you want it to be. Iā€™ve watched you grow a shit ton of good looking weed in all those tents with Dr Earth and a couple extras, so I know you didnā€™t get got by the hype.

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Ok now! This is interesting and right up my alley, got any good reading on what happens there in the cups? I can see the benefits of a diverse pre-digestion but whatā€™s the school of thought here? Seems like JADAM/KNF?

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Yeah, its my own philosophy/tek and very similar to KNF/Jadam.
Except, Ive never had big barrels to do a pelicile ferment.

Ok, so, crustacean meal in vinegar separates the calcium from the carbonate. It may also make chitinase
Same idea with rock dusts in vinegar - separates the molecules into free elements. It also balances the pH so watering in the cations doesnt shock the plant but may also chelate them.

Soaking in PNSB cultivates microbes that feed on those foods. Like you can replace Mammoth P by soaking EWC in EM1.
I use EM1 as it has both LAB and PNSB. I found better results than homemade LAB.

Soaking in FulPower makes enzymes.
Nectar For The Gods they basically have vats of FulPower in which they soak various foods and minerals. Came out not long after I posted this tek on PFA. But maybe they were beta testing before I published that.

Right now, I have a cup of dolomite lime and gypsum soaking in vinegar that after several days i added water with EM1 and FulPower.

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As far as NCBI papers backing up my stuff, I had a laptop and several thumb drives with all that info. Fire ate them.

Id recommend getting on Facebook and joining Probiotic Farmers Alliance and going to the Files section on the page. We put a bunch of shit on there.

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Hereā€™s the cup of lime + gypsum

Been using this to remedy the yellowing in my LED thread

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Also on the topic of phosphorus and endo-mycorrhizal fungi that someone may find interesting. I know synthetic strigolactones are already becoming available for ag purposes, no experience with them though.

The process of forming arbuscular mycorrhizae is initiated by the plant when soil nutrient conditions, specifically phosphorus levels, are low. Such conditions increase the production and release of strigolactones from the host plantā€™s roots. These specialized hormones attract fungal spores or hyphae in the soil. Once the strigolactones are discovered by the fungus, they guide the fungal hyphae to the host plantā€™s roots. An arbuscular mycorrhizal spore has about seven to ten days to reach a root to get carbon before its own on-board supply runs out and it dies.

Once discovered by germinating arbuscular fungi, strigolactones cause fungal hyphae to undergo extensive branching. This increases the number of hyphal tips and thus improves the chances of timely contact with the plant roots. Strigolactones also guide the fungi to grow toward the roots and aid them in the formation of an appressorium, the penetrating mechanism used by fungi to enter the roots. But this is not a one-way dance. The fungi also produce and send chemical signals necessary to prevent the plant from turning its defenses against the incoming mycorrhizal fungi.

  • from Teaming with Fungi by Jeff Lowenfels


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Word, I just found this:

And this guyā€™s post:

Cool stuff, Iā€™m going to keep learning about this

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Very interesting thanks for the heads up.
I know little myself.
I saw how valuable this could be back in 2013, but it never gained traction.
Here is a link to my thoughts back then, not much, but something to start.

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Sorry if Iā€™m side tracking this thread but I see you mentioned KNF. Iā€™ve always wanted to switch to KNF for my 50gal coots mix outdoor runs. It always seems to have a pay wall behind learning about it. Itā€™s also hard to find a clear cut feeding schedule for a weekly or bi weekly feeding. Do you have any social media websites/you tubers you recommend?

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I found these to download but I havenā€™t had time to get into them:

SA-19.pdf (1.3 MB)

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Thanks for dropping the links dirt, Iā€™ve got something to read tonight and at work tomorrow!

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Yup those two are great resources.

Takes a lot of material to do it in the 50gal buckets you see everyone do.
I know some Dragonfly certified farms consult for other farms and have those farms also grow things like horsetail and comfrey. Then they come harvest the plants and bring em back to their farm to ferment.

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Choā€™s son also made his own tek.
I cant remember which one is which, but I wanna say the son uses alcohol, salt, and sugar. .

For example, you can take a plant and put it in a sealed jar with equal weight amount of brown sugar. The sugar pulls the water out of the plant material and allows it to ferment. Salt dies the same
The alcohol is used to make what are basically plant tinctures.

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