Whose truth Todd yours and Sam’s ?. There are always 2 sides to a story Nevil side stayed the same but Sam story has changed quiet a few times over the years people took screen shots kept a close interest in the haze story.
I like Sam and have always tried to show him respect regardless of what he posts with out him no one would of got haze to grow in modern times.But Nevil like it or not Breed made lots of seed and spread the seed far and wide and because he did he was a wanted man by the US government.
No Sam sold Nevil the seed because he needed the money he had just arrived in Amsterdam no bull shit about it Todd whats bull shit is you and others that were not there trying to change history to benefit your selfs or you mates.
Like i told you Nevil has documented his side of the story and it will be posted.
I spoke to Nevil Todd and he told me he only met you once and chatted to you for about an hour with you at a event in Amsterdam not at his castle not twice or more just the one time and he told me he thought you were a decent guy for the record.
Sam had his opportunity to respond to Nevil as Nevil called Sam out at Mr nice no response.
It be a smarter move by you and others to just not get involved in something you had nothing to do with.
Whats the post in OG Nevil passes the seed drop starts.
The one thing Nevil and Sam agreed on was inbreeding Haze is not the way forward.
Do you remember the Ohaze and Nevil’s Haze smoke reports from growers 20 years ago on forums like OG and CW i do i don’t read smoke reports like that now Todd.
Holy shit this is stupid! I honestly don’t know what all this BS is for. Nevil received Haze from Sam and NL from Greg. Todd received Haze from Sam and NL from Greg. Who cares if Nevil had haze in 84 or not? What the hell difference does it make? Hempy, I am familiar with your contributions on IC, and greatly respect you, but nothing you are saying means anything. Like you said, there are two sides to every story, but that doesn’t mean Nevil wasn’t lying. In fact, some of these quotes you have posted actually make Nevil seem like a guy who refuses to acknowledge Sam’s significance in the whole bit. It actually paints him as kind of a dick. As for the heroin thing, users often relapse when constantly around ANY drugs or alcohol. I’ve known plenty of them, and it happens all the time. My younger brother had a heavy drug problem, and he lied through his teeth almost constantly for years, even after he was supposedly clean. In the end though, none of this matters. Either buy Haze from AG or don’t. All this started because some stupid troll that goes by “rocketboy”, who isn’t even 21 years old, came in here bashing Greg, likely because he is trying to make a rep for himself using Northern Lights crosses that didn’t come from Greg. As if. He made some hermie ridden shit chuck and called it “Alice in Wonderland”… talk about an arrogant little puke. Now we’re in this all out war over who the fuck knows what. Nevil was an amazing breeder, and did create some killer crosses, but he didn’t create the building blocks for those crosses and he DID get the seeds from others, including Sam. Would Sam’s strains have ever been as “big” without Nevil? Probably not. Would Nevil have ever been as big without Sam? Probably not. But the whole seed market definitely would not have been what it became if not for Sam and other Americans supplying the genetics. Whatever the hell this whole beef is, it’s fucking ridiculous.
There will always be disagreement and contraversy surrounding such influencial people and historic times in the cannabis community, it’s nice to sort out the details when possible but I think the main priority should be preserving what plants or lines that are left from those times before all we are left with is stories blowing in the wind.
Plants that used to be readily available are dam near extinct if not gone already.
Sam would know something about this being the one who bred and sold more non skunk smelling beans then anybody, he definitely started that train. Now he may have done that on purpose I’ve heard the reasoning but one of the most known and influencial lines of our time is basically gone and the man who calls him self skunkman can’t produce a rks. Without those terps it’s just another polyhybrid line that is rather bland. @ToddMcC i have some hope for the skunk beans I got from you but at this point it seems it would take a miracle to find real rks in seed form.
So many have stepped up and said they have skunk and I’m convinced those who do don’t say they do and are old and growing it in the back corner for headsmoke. Why would you not keep and separate that terp profile while breeding away from like Sam says he did, he keeps kilos of seed but didn’t keep any stinky skunk lines or isent sharing them if he did. I’ve even heard him laugh and say there is no rks it was left on the Rd dead. Imagine if he had had and kept it ,how valuable of a breeding tool that would be.
First thing that will always pop in my mind about him as a breeder is he is the guy that destroyed a valuable line and part of history, he did some positive stuff to I’m sure but I’m bitter about the skunk for many reasons.
Why oh why is there not floods of skunky skunk like there used to be. Oh yeah everybody who had it wound up dead or in prison to the point people walked away from it.
If somebody really has it and wants people to know all they need to do is bring and open a jar to one of many different cannabis events that happen now a days , heads will turn and people will have no doubt what it is.
It’s that easy bring it show it and prove it and no doubt can be cast , otherwise there all just stories at some point.
Clearly it dose bother some people Nevil got Haze seed it bothers them Nevil was the guy that started the seed industry and much more if it didn’t bother them then we not see made up story’s attacking Nevil and his contributions would we.
One more key point Haze is not Sam’s strain Sam never breed Haze others did Sam preserved it.
Santa Cruz mtns grew alot of haze and Mexicans mixed with a African that showed up and got big in 76. It was crossed to Malawi and that line was still around just a few years ago. I’m not sure what makes up haze but that term had been around a long time as had skunk. In regards to haze I’ve heard the Mexican Columbian Indian male Thai theory but I think people are forgetting the 1976 African plant that people kept in there hands longer then any if the hazes I know of at least.
The same company that sold the brand American cannabis before proabition had a line called escalating skunk. Now if somebody can find me a actual document that would prove this I would give you a free pack of any seeds I produce into eternity, just saying I know it to be true but can’t find anything and have tried.
Or if you can get me a authentic tin can with the skunk on the side that it sometimes could be found in. Aromatic something or other , good luck I’ve tried some stuff is just lost in time.
Sam may be a hero to many but bellows my opinions of him now
How about what sams doing in the uk nowadays ? Licences huge medi grow and not many uk patients get the med as drs won’t prescribe here Sam aka David Watson the W in GW Pharma … he’s basically in bed with UK government who’s like Teresa’s mays husband invests in GW the funniest it is the conservatives party “drugs ministers “ wifes husband has the licence to grow it . No access for home growers to do this though is there . Seems Sam will claw and do whatever is needed to make money today and fuck the end users that can’t get it Tbh that’s what’s more important now . Why is Skunk-man Sam in bed with uk government ? No wonder he hides his face from public
[QUOTE=Sam_Skunkman;n8699931]I gave seeds to both the Original Haze growers in 1972 and also later, One used Thai and S Indian with his Haze in the very early 70’s. The other grew the Thai but decided it was not as good as Haze and did not use it. The very first Original Haze was a crop of both green, lime green, purple, and other colors, all from Columbian, after that I am not sure and anyone that says they are, is just fooling themselves. One of the Haze growers RL told me a different story then the Original Haze guy that did it first up in the SC mountains and then in the next few years moved down to right by my house, less then a block away, the other Haze grower RL, who put out the OH poster lived a block the other side of my house. I had a friend “J” that used to help the SC mountain Haze grower, he was also a good friend of RCC, he told me all about the early Original Haze I never saw, as I got back to SC in early 1972. They both told me different stories, I did not care so much it was the Cannabis I was interested in.
-SamS[/QUOTE]
Lets face it if the Haze brothers cant agree on what Haze is how is any one else going to know.
More like didn’t know or couldn’t agree on what to say, best to best breeding didn’t always involve detailed record keeping and the exact mix is probably anybodies best guess. My guess is pre proabition brand American cannabis x Indian ganja then crossed to Mexican Columbian and a thai and or African, just a random ass guess though for fun sake. Probably leaving our some Vietnamese also. I always heard before santa Cruz one family in big Sur who held harvest parties had alot to do with the central coast sensamillia and the genetics that were soon to follow. Not sure they want there name out there but it’s common santa Cruz knowledge , P.C. was breeding before most others. The property there saw mill used to be on is now a yurt covered vacation spot… I’ve heard stories of full.moon parties that lasted a week, bonfires with plants sacrificed , PC the Hobbit passed away in 2006 and was around 70. Real legend here on the central coast. @Arthur-Mix Dave has been involved on that level going way back , GW came after hortapharm, and he is still pretty active in the Canna industry as far as I know , oh and Sam show his face , only time I’ve seen that happen on film was at a old hemp expo many moons ago and if you weren’t there it really doesn’t count because the film is such low qaulity it’s about worthless. I’m pretty sure only those who actually know him know what he looks like esp with how much time has gone by dude has to be getting old. Like super thick coke bottle glasses old.
Yes I know his legal work history , you know he got 10 million from uk government who knew his”criminal past “ ? lol it’s odd that David won’t protest the uk laws openly when he has a license . That’s what pisses me .
Also the fact that Victoria Aitkins the drugs ministers husband Paul Kenward is a director of British sugar which has the facilities for David . Is that not a vested interest ? Rigged market the same party that won’t allow aces to medical canna yet makes millions from it
Probably can’t , once you get into government permits and contracts any conflict of interest or supporting of movements is generally frowned upon. Just like if you work for Nike you can’t go around petioning for Nike to keep all it’s jobs in the areas where the majority of it’s products are sold and bad mouthing them if they don’t.
Might make sense , might be right but not what they need from people who are on there team playing there game.
He pretty much has sold his soul to the Conservative party it seems to me . Anyway I suppose it’s great that he can grow and make money in uk when end users can’t access it pmsl. So he got a licence to grow in uk but UK patients find it near impossible to access , would seem he would be better to speak out so he could sell and grow more within the uk market , rather than making uk one of the largest exporters ? It’s his business that he won’t speak about to help expand … murky
I don’t agree with it but seems to be common practice now a days , look at the nonsense phylos pulled , I warned everybody to stay far away from them and was called straight tin hat crazy, you can find old posts on here even where I am telling everybody mark my words you will regret sending them anything , they will be compiling selling and using all of your data to build super strains , to sell to the highest bidder and to help people dominate the market , they promised they weren’t going to do any of that time and time again and people believed them and bam look what they did , exactly what I said to a tee and got paid to do it.
They literally got rich manipulating and screwing over the industry they claimed to be a part of. You see the problem is old school Canna culture was like a family , now the sharks and demons of the business world are in the hen house so to speak and alot of people from the old days and ways of doing things just aren’t prepared for the level of bs the legal corporate world contains, that’s where you find the real thugs and criminals, behind the scenes in private offices , on golf courses , weaving webs and pulling strings like the puppet masters they have built them selves up to be.
The irony is when the bottom crumbles what ever is at the top has the longest and hardest fall.
PS my next prediction of what will stir up and piss off the community is when companies like cookies start sending cease and dissist orders to everybody growing/selling there strains. Everybody will cry about how they come from the streets but want to attack the little guy , maybe they won’t but if not them somebody else will be going that route and soon mark my words , when you start talking millions of dollars even family will often turn on each other.
Only good cheese plant I’ve seen was a blue cheese from Humboldt about 7 years ago that would be about 4x the weight if anything else in the garden, they guys who had it lost it and still bitch to this day about it, I didn’t dislike or like it enough to care myself but it was definitely a monster plant with that authentic thick cheesy smell and taste. I don’t like the cheese terps myself but some love it.
So back on the Authentic genetics topic
Has anybody grown or will anybody be growing out the skunk beans , would love to see the earlier generation grown to compare to some newer supposed skunk lines people have. I have some and may grow them soon. I need a good skunk male and out of one pack of sensi seeds skunk1 nothing stood out. I want a boy that reeks of sour chronic while in veg. I still have another pack from them , and there super skunk which is probably the better option from them but will probably grow the ones from Todd first. I have two very skunky plants that would benefit greatly from a true skunk male being brought back into equation.
Tod ive never seen were nevil said sam was responsible for his green merchant (or what ever it was called) bust. I think you may be mixing two issues up. Nevil did say when he was arrested in Australia that the tip had come from Amsterdam but never mentioned a name. Nevil did leave a statement in regards to sam, I would really read that before mixing things up too much.
Also this claim you keep making about heroin sounds a bit like a smear campaign especially when its something you haven’t seen with your own eyes, this site is really about plants and genetics not people’s personal gripes and issues.
On the other issue about your Neville’s haze x Original haze hybrid are you saying you knowingly sold a plant with some genetics you was unsure of as Neville’s haze x Original haze. Or did you know what it was ?
Oh yeah everybody who had it wound up dead or in prison to the point people walked away from it.