My thoughts exactly… I figure some old-timer has it somewhere hidden away as to not have it whored out so to speak… Eventually, the skunk will make its return I figure…
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This. Thank you.
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Good morning everybody,
Let me be clear, often when I come on here it is because I’m being attacked or doubted by people who don’t even know me or have not even grow my genetics.
I am not trying to smear the reputation of Nevil as Nevil did to Sam. But in order for me to explain where I’m coming from, I have to be able to be truthful about the experiences I’ve had with these people. That’s the bottom line. If that offends you, that’s your problem and not mine. I lived in Amsterdam, I was around and saw shit and it is what it is.
I grew up around drug users, I really understand the different personality types quite well unfortunately enough. I know that it makes a big difference in how they live their lives and what they do to other people.
Mario Lap was nothing but a lapdog to his heroin connection. If that bothers you, again, that’s not my problem, but that’s the reality I saw when I lived in Amsterdam in 1996. If you don’t understand that, you might not understand why Mario went after the reputation of Skunkman Sam for his good friend Nevil. If you understand that, it suddenly makes more sense, at least it did to me. Mario tried to rope me into the reputation bashing of Sam in 1996 and I didn’t go for it, because I did my own research.
Nevil did not start calling Sam a DEA agent until Nevil got busted and he didn’t have paperwork on who really turned him in.
Nevil had no evidence that Sam was DEA, but he spread the rumor around anyway, which is still snitching, we call it “dry-snitching”, because it’s not necessarily snitching to the cops, it is snitching to everybody who would listen to him. What is worse is that it was an allegation that was not true, which is even more damaging.
During the war on drugs, calling another grower a DEA agent was about the worst thing you could do. What Nevil did to Sam in Holland is truly unforgivable. If Sam was a DEA agent, I would have no issue with Nevil doxing him, but the fact that Sam wasn’t DEA and the fact that Nevil did not have any evidence to support the claims he was making, is truly outrageous.
How would any of you like to be called a DEA agent when you were not a DEA agent? How would you like it if one of your seed customers who got busted, and who was was actually turned in by his own employee, started trying to destroy your reputation, because they didn’t really know what happened to them. Oops. Would them saying “sorry” take care of it for you?
It actually blows my mind that we are having this conversation well over 25+ years after Nevil started this rumor about Sam. Talk about telling a huge freaking lie, this one really had legs.
I am very defending of the company I keep because I’ve always said; “Show me who you hang with, and I will show you who you are.”
I would not socialize or defend the reputations of Skunkman Sam or Robert Clarke if I did not have 100% certainty that the allegations made against them by Nevil and others were 100% wrong.
I self surrendered to prison for 5 years rather than cooperate, if that isn’t testament to how I act under pressure and how I feel about rats, I don’t know what it is. Most people will sell their own mother up the river to avoid going to prison and instead I showed up stoned and wearing a 100% hemp suit. Fuck em’.
Now that I have authentic genetics of Haze, Skunk #1 and NL, from the people in question; yeah, I’m going to speak up when people speak down at me and them, and I will be truthful about where I based my opinions from.
I don’t really care about hurting the feelings of people who clearly don’t care about hurting the feelings of other people. Don’t bother telling me to be gentle with the reputation of Nevil, while you’re bashing the reputation of Sam. If the unfounded allegations against Sam don’t bother you, you should check your conscience. Sam did not deserve the character assassination that Nevil attempted and I will say that quite bluntly.
Back in 2019 when I released original Haze, I had a bunch of people talking shit that I didn’t really have Haze and Sam himself shut them down on ICMAG.
Now that people have had time to grow the genetics I offered, nobody is saying that I don’t have Haze anymore.
Same damn thing happened with Skunk #1 last year, people couldn’t comprehend the fact that I may have been able to select acrid phenotypes from old seed stock. People who buy 5 and 10 seeds in a pack at a time, clearly don’t understand what it’s like to grow thousands of plants in order to select one great plant and throw the rest away. I get it.
Now, the feedback I’m getting from people who are actually growing my selected genetics is awesome and it really goes to show the difference between opinion and experience.
The story about Nevil and Sam hits home to me because I knew both people, I am still in very close communication with Sam and I have a lot of respect and admiration for him. I don’t believe that he deserved the character assassination that was attempted by Nevil and has been continued by many people on this very forum.
OG should be about the genetics first and foremost, but in order for us to truly understand the intellectual property that we are growing/sharing and where it came from, sometimes it takes a little bit of rehashing history to get a better understanding of it’s true origin.
Sometimes rehashing history can be painful to people who want to hold onto fragile ego’s and stories that turned out to not be true. I have no apologies for those people.
Also, the amount of misinformation that gets passed off as fact on this forum is nauseating.
People that don’t even understand what they’re talking about try to come across like they’re freaking experts. Such as Watson is the “W” in GW" pharmaceuticals. That’s freaking wrong: GW Pharmaceuticals was founded in 1998 by Doctors Geoffrey Guy and Brian Whittle; look it up.
David Watson / Skunkman, sold GW genetics over 20 years ago and has nothing to do with the company. Making claims that he has some kind of influence with the UK government is absurd and a fairytale, as are many of the fabrications I see people make about him. Unfortunately a lot of those fabrications have grown out of the lies Nevil started telling long ago.
In my opinion, David Watson/Skunkman Sam deserves somebody to speak up for him. I wish that Nevil was still alive today to answer to the fact that we can all see the affidavit of the real rat, who was Nevil’s own employee: Raymond Anthony Cogo. I would like to see Nevil retract all the lies he told about Sam and confront that fact that someone in Nevil’s own organization was actually Nevil’s own undoing.
After Marco apologized publicly for slamming the reputation of Sam:
Nevil doubled down and continued to assert the lie that Watson and Clarke were looking to DNA sequence his “pedigrees” so that the cops would be able to find…who? As I have to ask, with DNA of the plants, who would the cops be able to find? I can hear Maury Povich now: “Nevil you are not the father of Haze, Skunk #1 or Northern Lights, please sit the f down.”
Let’s just face it, Nevil did not understand the DNA sequencing that Rob and David spoke to him about (which is used quite commonly today) and he tried to turn his lie about Sam being DEA into a new and improved lie involving Australian police and a bunch of paperwork that he gave to Mario Lap. Let me also point out that no paperwork has ever been circulated publicly from either Nevil or Mario to back up any of the accusations they have made about Sam. The reason, there is no paperwork to back up their lies.
I think it’s about time somebody spoke up and threw a rock in this glass house and pointed out the truth. If the truth bothers you, you need thicker skin.
As somebody who has had cancer 10 times, has a body covered with scars, a spinal fusion and spent 5 long years in prison for, in reality, not cooperating, I am not among the people with thin skin. If the truth bothers you, too damn bad.
@NIGHTMARE I’m not sure what you mean about my “ON Haze”, which is a Nevil’s Haze crossed (back) to an Original Haze. I actually did that years ago and have used that variety in my breeding. In 2018, I crossed ON Haze (back) to another original Haze and made those seeds available and they sold out quick.
https://agseedco.com/products/on-haze-x-original-haze?_pos=44&_sid=7810dca83&_ss=r
@hempy While I thank you for your advice dear sir about not getting involved in something I had nothing to do with, I beg to differ. I do not want my reputation soiled by Nevil’s lies about Sam, because I associate with Sam and also sell his old genetics. I will defend the people I keep close around me because that’s what a loyal friend does. Again, if there were any truth to the lies that Nevil sowed, the paperwork would have come out, but that hasn’t happened now has it? In fact, it’s quite the opposite, the paperwork has come out and we have learned what really happened to Nevil, but it doesn’t fit the narrative that Nevil told now does it? “Seed merchant hires asshole who turns him into the DEA” is truthful, but not quite as sexy as the story Nevil sold as Sam being a villain and deep cover DEA agent.
And also @hempy, I’ve been growing Haze plants since 1995 when I came home from Amsterdam and planted some original “Jack Herer” seeds that Jack got directly from Ben and Nevil in 1994. I also grew NL#5 x Haze that year, and was growing original Haze with Old Ed the entire year of 1996 that I was in Amsterdam. I was again growing Haze in 1997 until the point I got busted. I started growing Haze crosses again in 2004, as soon as I got out of prison and I have been growing Haze combinations ever since. I got the original Haze genetics directly from Sam in 2012, and I have been working with them since. I have more experience with Haze than I do with almost any other single variety. You can choose to ignore the work I’ve done and the varieties of Haze that I have released, and dismiss it as if I’m not working to improve Haze, but you’re wrong. The truth is that you’re not growing my genetics and you really don’t know what you’re talking about when you’re talking about what’s coming out of my seed company. But I get it, many people speak their opinions when they don’t have any actual experience. I’m used to it.
@Heritagefarms Thank you for your comments, I think you’re really going to appreciate the genetics when you get around to working with them. Thank you for giving them a try and supporting this project.
And on that note, I hope everybody has a really beautiful day. Life is short, make the most of it.
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So your theory is that Nevil never found anything in those OHaze seeds that Sam supposedly never sold him and the haze plants he used for breeding possibly came from clones that Sam sold him in 87?
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It seems I have been wrong about how and skunkman , what I say about GW as a company stands though. Sorry I was wrong saying he was still involved .
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@anon5325009 My theory is that of course Nevil did buy kilos of seeds from Sam in 1984, of half of the varieties Sam was offering at the time according to Nevil. But I don’t think Haze was one of the varieties that Nevil opted for or was even offered to him in 1984. Nevil has even said that Sam was initally protective of the Haze variety, and I think it took some coaxing to get the Haze from Sam.
The Seed Bank catalogs just don’t line up with the story Nevil later told of getting Haze from Sam. If Nevil had purchased a kilo of Haze seeds from Sam in 1984, that’s approximately 70,000 seeds in 1 kg, Nevil would’ve had a lot more Haze plants to work with.
Also, Steve Hager interviewed Nevil at the castle in the end of 1986 and his article appeared in High Times in March of 1987. There is absolutely no mention whatsoever of “Haze” in the article or by Nevil or listed with the available seeds/varieties Nevil was offering.
This is an article with the same Nevil who would later say that; “There was weed and then there was Haze”. If Haze was such a big deal in Nevil’s life and he had been growing Haze since 1984, I have a hard time believing that he would not have mentioned it in this amazing High Times article that really defined Nevil’s career and was a huge advertisement for his seed business. If Nevil had known that he was going to release Haze crosses in 1988, I’m pretty sure he would’ve mentioned it in this article. As it certainly would not have hurt his seed sales. I don’t think Nevil knew that he was going to get the Haze cuttings in 1987, which is why there’s no mention of it in this article which was conducted in 1986.
After talking to Sam and Rob and looking at Nevil’s catalogs and the timeline that I can prove, it seems to me that Nevil got a couple Haze males sometime in 1987, as the first cross with Haze from Nevil appears in the 1988 catalog. Again, the word “Haze” is not at all even mentioned in any of the Seed Bank’s catalogs in 1985, 1986 or 1987.
And I have to ask why not? If Nevil had received Haze seeds in 1984, I cannot imagine that he would not have been offering them in 1985 or 1986; it just doesn’t make sense to me.
I don’t even think that Sam sold Nevil Haze clones in 1987, I think he gave them to him. In 1987 Sam and Nevil still had a good relationship. I also think that Sam specifically only gave Nevil Haze males, so that Nevil could not make F2’s of the original Haze variety. I know even more of the original story from multiple angles, but I’m actually not revealing everything I know. The relationship between Haze, Sam and Nevil has been like putting together a puzzle for me for many years now. Unfortunately, some people take offense at the picture it presents.
I think that the reason Haze was not mentioned in Nevil’s High Times article is because Nevil didn’t have Haze at the time. He wasn’t working on crosses with it and Haze just wasn’t part of the conversation. I know that Rob arrived in Amsterdam in February 1987, which means that Nevil would have gotten the Haze after this article was published in March of 87 in High Times.
People may ask, why does this matter, and my answer would be that I am a student of history and I’m trying my best to understand the true timeline and to navigate through the lies that many people told. We all know this is happening in the industry today with new companies trying to take credit for other peoples work and sadly, it has been happening in the industry for decades.
@Arthur-Mix I’m not going to defend GW; I think corporate cannabis can suck a big D. But, I can’t blame Watson for selling them genetics in the 90’s, as he sold everybody genetics, in my research, there’s no single person on the planet who has disseminated more cannabis genetics than Skunkman Sam.
But that said, I was a kid who had cancer, and I totally appreciate people having access to clean medical cannabis. I think there is a place for cannabis to be standardized and to be available through a hospital in controlled doses. At the same time, I believe that we should all have a fundamental right to grow our own cannabis, which is why I have been working to disseminate the most authentic genetics I am capable of collecting.
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Bitchboy? 
I love it
You’re 100% right about me I’m a 12 year old kid with 0 growing experience, I wish I had at least 1 grow under my belt with pictures to back it up but sadly I don’t .
As for the herms? I only know how to cross pure herms together to make my strains 
. I wish I was a Master Breeder like Mr. McCormick and pump out stable strains… Yea there’s some pictures online showing a few of his hermmed Skunks but those are totally Photoshopped.
You’re correct that I don’t know jack shit, unlike Mr McCormick that was there in the room with Sam and Nevil when that haze deal went down.
Also It’s not like I’ve ever talked to Mr. McAllister directly, or even know anyone that knows him, Todd, or even Nevil personally, or anyone that has worked along side Nevil during The SeedBank years 
… Oh shucks MrBill you totally exposed me with your loveable kind words .
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@ToddMcC all things aside what ever became of the northern lights skunk line or the kush#4 line from Ortega that nevil sold as Hindu Kush…
I would go to great lengths to get those genetics
as i’m sure would many. I mean how can they be gone with how much was put out there. There is even a breeder on the north coast who claims to have a cut from the kush#4 line and it looks remarkably correct. Does you or anybody you know of plan to release such treasure or know if there even in existence still ?
I was very suprised to see the original haze line come back , I was suprised that your source openly donated it back into the community.
I have hope that somebody has legit northern lights hashplant , northern lights skunk , Ortega’s lines or even a real g13 but that last one is pretty agreed upon to be extinct as far as I know.
Also I have a plant that I’m rather curiouse about , and hard pressed to get a straight answer about from the source… I know it’s hard to identify anything from a photo but look at this and tell me it dosent look like the nl/haze. you may have or have seen this plant before , reeks of puppy breath while growing but it in good skunky kushy kind of way. That nug was pulled at nine weeks btw.
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Trolling is not acceptable.
We don’t tolerate name-calling.
This is last warning, guys. You have well deserved 7 day silencing…
Thanks others for keeping discussion polite and to the topic. Our memory can’t serve 100% precise after 30 years. Different people have different memories and interpretation of facts. There is hardly anything like “objective” truth. Let’s discuss politely and with respect to each other. It’s very interesting subject so don’t spoil it with personal attacks…
Thanks!
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Tod do you talk to sam. Because sam himself says otherwise. The nevils haze was never publicly available till 1997-98, but it existed well before then, dont mean it couldn’t have existed before public release just like other lines.HazeBC was sold in the coffee shops in the late 80’s. Some of us seen these things. The clones sam gave nevil wernt male either, one was the haze 19 and the other was the lime green female.
I was regularly getting zips of blue cheese grown in humboldt at that exact time haha. Must have been circulating in the area then. the prop 215 collective system was really great.
That bud was amazing. Never grew it myself though.
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Good morning,
Yes, I talk to Sam quite a lot and that still does not change what he told me when he gave me the original Haze seeds in 2012.
It (Sam not giving Haze to Nevil until 1987) actually perplexed me at first, which is why I started looking into it.
Sam told me that he only gave Nevil a couple male Haze plants and that I could ask Rob, because Rob was with him when he brought them over to Nevil, which dated it to 1987. When I asked Rob, he confirmed that he was there. So I went back and I looked through all of the literature (catalogs and interviews and even asked Greg) I could find in order to find anything that had Nevil mentioning “Haze” before Rob arrived in Amsterdam in 1987, and I cannot find anything.
I can only find Nevil talking about getting Haze earlier than 1987 on forums, I cannot find any actual printed proof that he had the variety. Please find me something printed in the years between 1984 all the way up until 1987 where Nevil mentions the word Haze.
I would be happy to be wrong. At the end of the day, I’m just looking for an accurate history without any of the bullshit.
I would get why Nevil would want to deny the truth that Sam gave him a couple males, because that would give even more credit to Sam and Sam’s breeding and less to Nevil, which is clearly something Nevil had a problem with doing.
It’s really easy for Nevil to say things happened after the fact, but it’s impossible to go back and slide words into a 16 page long article in High Times or into 3 years of catalogs, 1985, 1986 & 1987 (as the word “Haze” is nowhere to be found in Seed Bank literature) when it didn’t exist.
It seems pretty apparent to me that Nevil mentioned all the varieties he had when he had them. Not mentioning Haze in his catalog or in his way-long 16 page interview for High Times in 1986, published in March 1987, is quite telling. I simply don’t think Nevil had the Haze genetics, which is why they were not part of the conversation.
If Nevil had Haze, don’t you think that a legendary variety like Haze would have been worth mentioning in his 16 page interview in High Times? Especially if he had plans to release crosses of Haze? Everything else in his catalog got mentioned, but not the amazing Haze? Hmmmm.
Put down the bong and think about it with an open mind, maybe I’ve got my Scooby-Doo hat on, but something seems off about this guys.
I would also like to make an announcement: I invented cannabis (this is sarcasm in case it slips by).
Cannabis has been known to intersex before I was born. I always throw away plants that show signs of intersex, I never ever ever ever ever breed with them, but I also can’t control the environment that other people create when they grow the seeds I make.
We all know of the ways that we can funk up a flower garden as there are many. As a breeder, I can’t control other people’s grow rooms, nor do I think I can. So if anybody gets genetics from me and they intersex, first blame nature (why that bisch made plants that try and save themselves during stress is so lame), second blame the stress from your garden’s environment, and third, blame me, because again, I invented cannabis and whatever bad practices are happening in your garden are clearly my fault.
I would like to say that from my experience growing cannabis, I have had cuttings that were proven to be sexually stable, only to herm if the environment funks up. Was it the genetics or was it the environment fudging up? When it happens, I usually first blame my environment, nutrients, water temp, room temp, etc…
Recently I had a guy buy some seeds from me who lives in the middle of Oregon. He received some Skunk #1 seeds from me in the first week of December and then started complaining to me at the beginning of March that not some, but ALL of his plants hermed. Considering that cannabis is a semi tropical/tropical plant, I know that cold temps can easily induce intersex behavior, so I asked him through email what his flower room temperature and humidity range was and he wouldn’t answer me. He wouldn’t tell me any of the parameters he was working with, he just wanted to complain and blame the genetics. Last time I checked, central Oregon in the winter is freaking cold. So I looked it up and central Oregon has an average temperature of a low of 23° and a high of 42° in January. I still have no idea what temps he was running his flower room at, but if someone is running a flower room cold or watering with cold water, don’t be surprised if your plants intersex.
Also, Durban is a variety that will herm if you look at it wrong and it has nothing to do with me. I only offered the Durban Poison from Mel Frank because of its historical significance and because of the fact that if you do a selection and you pick the sexually stable females, it is actually great breeding material.
Over the years, I’ve grown a lot of different varieties and I’ve seen a lot of different varieties herm in different environmental conditions. What I have come to learn is that one environment doesn’t fit all varieties. When you think about it, cannabis acclimated into environments all over the world. We are trying to grow them in a single controlled environment and some of them don’t like it.
I will also say that in the last 12 months I have shipped out over 4,000 orders for seeds and it is only a very small percentage who have complained. Between August and December of 2020, I shipped out 10,000 to 15,000 Skunk #1 seeds just in the pre-orders. I also gave away another 6,000 Skunk #1 seeds by giving everyone who pre-ordered an extra 6x pack of Skunk #1 seeds just to be kind. So I know there are a lot of my seeds being grown and the majority of growers have been nothing but pleased to get their hands on authentic genetics from a known source.
Happy Hashish -
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420 SPECIAL - 100 seeds for $420. Original Haze & Original Skunk #1
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Such a shame that these “old coveted strains/seeds” being ‘handed down’ to the next generation, get somehow lost in the sales-pitch like haze (derp) of who’s-who, and get mediocre results in the grow community.
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Another puppet it seems 
i was over this argument 20 years ago 
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I’m not a puppet and I’m not a parrot like some people. I’m not going to parrot lies just to make some people happy or to continue someone else’s false narrative.
I’ve got no hero worship to offer anyone. I am digging for the truth and if the truth offends, too damn bad.
If you feel that you’ve been over this conversation for the last 20 years as you’re sitting safe and anonymous behind your keyboard, think of the people who have actually had their reputation soiled feel.
Calling somebody a DEA agent when they’re not a DEA agent is freaking outrageous.
Lies that go that deep do not get buried easily.
Make no mistake, I WISH Nevil were still among us to answer questions about Cogo’s affidavit and confront the facts. I would love to see somebody put Nevil’s feet to the fire and make him produce the Australian police/DNA tracking documents that he said he gave to Mario Lap. I would love to hear his explanation on how he supposedly got Haze in 1984, but didn’t bother to put it in the catalog until 1988.
I would love to see all of the lies he told get buried and the truth get resurrected.
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Good morning to you too!
Nobody is getting “mediocre” results growing the varieties that I’m offering. In fact, I get great feedback every single day from people who are thrilled with the genetics.
You’re just another person not growing my genetics, but has an opinion of my genetics based upon no actual experience growing any of them.
I’m totally use to it. No experience with the actual genetics, but lots of opinions, seems to be the standard in the cannabis cultivation community these days.
Who needs to actually do the work, when you can just read comments from another person and become an expert? (that is sarcasm by the way)
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How much for a 6 pack of skunk? I’d love to run some.
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Wasn’t calling you a puppet man
I’ve been over this conversation for 20 years because if Sam cared to defend himself he would but as the paperwork shows he was clearly not the snitch which is probably why he hasn’t felt the need to defend himself
Facts are Nevil and sam had dealings at some point at some point they each called the other a liar Nevil called Sam a snitch the snitch was not Sam Nevil never apologized (bad form)
Sorry if i came off cross but i was trying to keep this topic on point which is your genetic offerings some of which im growing and why i keep checking back in here in hopes of hearing what others are saying and what you are saying regarding your breeding work because it intrests me
As far as a real person i am a very real person behind this screen who has been lucky enough to meet and chill with several members here and im by no means shy if you are ever in the St.louis area send me a message and we can smoke one
Just trying to keep this from turning into a dumpster fire
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