I actually enjoy figuring out how to break complex stuff down so it’s easier to understand. The fact that it helps others just makes it that much better! 
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yeah i think @Worcestershire_Farms or someone pointed this out… based on Watts definition of F1 almost nothing are F1s as everything are polyhybrids crossed with polyhybrids… i doubt there’s even any plants existing which are homozygous across all chromosomes…
idk, i think it’s more likely the definition will change re: cannabis than to get people to change their notation
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i wonder if homozygosity factors in to the approval process for plant breeders rights … i think they only care about homogeneity
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Forsure I hear ya, I wanna work in this industry somehow gaining knowledge for a while now ! Attend a few expo’s great for learning !
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Thanks, Sebring, for some real meat to gnaw on. 
…but I gotta wonder… there’s a different goal for a plant/seed-breeder, and a personal-cultivator… so if many folks are satisfied with well-grown bagseed stuff for personal use, will the commercially-oriented interests and self-sufficers diverge even more… creating some strange genetic isolation, way down the road…?
ouch 
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Personally I really see bagseed dieing out to just the old school growers or people wanting to experiment, eventually especially with legalization (where I am ) Seeds will be more available aswell as information and people will start seeing new bud as they are not only seeing what they grow out of bagseed, I’m sure what they grow can be good, but they can get somthing that is GREAT and pretty much gaurnteed Aswell as more personalized Like flavour and taste, People use to Breed for THC, Now its terpenes and other cannabinoids, Just imagine the flavours we will have in 10 years and where the plant can be taken that most bagseed might not have unless its that era’s bagseed haha, Some great strains were bagseed but usually your not sure any genetics on it and if it was purposeful, was the pollen Hermaphroditic ? etc.
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@StrainVenator I believe you’re right and that’s a very astute extrapolation!
@legalcanada I believe a plant patent requires homozygosity. A general plant patent does not though, although general plant patents are very easy to over turn.
@cannabissequoia we will see a couple people, mostly people that have an ideological view of maintaining old inbred lines as well as the resources, that will create true breeding homozygous strains and everyone else will follow the path StrainVenator laid out.
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hmmm.
patents are a country-to-country variation (right)? i recall canada yes, usa no (for now)…
@Sebring i’m curious if you might expand on the predictions .
it’s difficult (for me) to find a historical comparison to cannabis and the present-day repeal of its prohibition…otherwise we could look to existing ag/horticulture/etc. & not have to rely on you twos guys 
to roll the bones for us. (hehe)
i believe jorge cervantes book had a section on breeding basics, written by another author, breeder(can’t recall who), and it’s mentioned that it is a common practice to never release 2nd generation seeds, only 3rd gen variation(filial, back) to “protect” their asset plants from being easily duplicated/used.
obviously this has been a hot-topic for some years now…the ‘acceptability’ of buying a good pack & a flat of dispensary clones, chucking that boy’s nuts all over, & claiming “seed breeder” status and/or making money…(there’s probably a thread here already–mod’s smite me).
phyew 
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definitely not 100% - probaby not even 50%
In order to qualify for these exclusive rights, a variety must be new, distinct, uniform and stable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_breeders'_rights
In canada, genetic testing is only mentioned as an optional step for determining distinctness from other varieties. the requirements are further defined as:
Uniform
A variety must be sufficiently uniform in its relevant characteristics, subject to the variation that may be expected from the particular features of its propagation. Any variation should be predictable to the extent that it can be described by the breeder, and should be commercially acceptable.
Stable
A variety must remain true to its description over successive generations. The variety must be stable in its essential characteristics to the degree where further generations of seed or other propagating material exhibit the same characteristics of the variety as described in the variety description which is used to establish a variety’s eligibility for PBR.
http://www.inspection.gc.ca/plants/plant-breeders-rights/eng/1299169386050/1299169455265
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We absolutely should look to traditional ag/etc. to help provide wisdom and trends in the cannabis genetics market. My background is in biology/chemistry with a focus on plants, so the trends of agriculture market development are infinitely fascinating to me.
The reason breeders don’t release F2s is two fold. First they don’t want people getting plants that are very close to pure copies of the P1 generation, as you stated. The second reason is that most customers are very upset when they grow an F2 and the end result is nothing like the advertised hybrid (<-This is their bigger concern, since no one likes angry customers). The fact that so many “breeders” are releasing F1 crosses that can quickly be turned into F2s shows that they aren’t as concerned with protecting their “asset plants” from duplication as they use to be.
I’ve lost track of how many “breeders” I’ve met at events, ranted loudly for 15 minutes about how being a flavor-of-the-day pollen chucker only produces multi-polyhyrbid garbage that is literally ruining the cannabis species, and then looked at their seed lists to see they are as guilty as it gets. Sadly, these pollen chucking get-rich-quick charlatans are more prevalent than the breeders of stable genetics these days.
To add supporting evidence to @StrainVenator’s theory, in just the last 2 years there has been a massive increase in the number of reliable online sources for seeds. Many of them newly available to the U.S. market with no need to risk customs inspections. In addition to this, the types of strain crosses are mind bogglingly large, reducing the previous need of home growers to make new crosses to obtain the desired variety qualities. A second point is that larger and larger portions of the U.S. market are produced less by unregulated markets, which tend to sell seeded bud at a decent pace, and more by regulated commercial producers, which have a huge market demand for bud with no seeds at all. Seeded bud still happens in these commercial grows, but all those seeds end up in the trash at the concentrate extraction facility. I believe the legalization of cannabis across the U.S. is doing more to kill bag seed availability than the reactions of growers to the plethora of seeds available from seed banks is.
Being in a legal state and a zealot for trying new and old strains, I’ve realized that every flavor new breeders are “creating” has already been done with older strains in the last 40 years. In fact, many of those older strain flavors need to be recreated, because the originals aren’t available anymore. This might be the one good side effect of having so many crosses available in seed form.
I agree, the requirement for homozygous genes is only for the specific traits being bred for/patented and having seeds that breed true 90% of the time is enough usually; meaning that each plant is likely only homozygous for the few traits selected and nothing else, resulting in a large percentage of heterozygosity across the entire gene code.
It’s my understanding that for cannabis the big trait they need to lock down is terpene/cannabinoid profiles, which are all over the place for most current strains. Most of these current strains fail miserably at even the “uniform” or “stability” factors when viewed under the stringent scientific requirements demanded by traditional scientists.
The Blueberry Blast hazy smoke is treating me right tonight! 
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ya someone else posted something about that recently too, every strain has like 5-10+ terpenes and you can’t find plants that are straight pinene or limonene etc… altho im not sure if plants ever did have only 1 terp.
i’m gonna try creating a patently unique and stable strain to call my own… an indica that makes me nod out with the joint still in my mouth and never builds tolerance and pure SKUNK smell… try recreating that dead skunk everyone misses
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@Sebring Forsure when I ment flavors available in 10 years imagine the throwbacks people will create with Bx’s or finding somthing down the line laying dormant in the genes that will almost bring back certain strains, I am on the hunt for some “Thai Stick” I know that is was more so just the way it was packaged but some of those flavours would be very interesting, or some old school purple kush that is hardly around the closest i found was reserva privada’s Purple Og 18, the pheno that I saw anyways had the old school PK smell that I use to get when i first got into smoking
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…i miss PK from 20 years ago too… 
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Nice post/bravo… I’ll have to re-visit this one with a dedicated session later tonight. 
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Haha for me last I had it was probally 5 or more years now! But wasn’t smokin 20 years ago haha
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Going to see if there seeds available for that purple og 18 strain!
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Good luck i’ve been looking for a while…
I’m working on a patently unique and homogenous strain to call my own too… A “quick” sativa that that makes me forget how long I’ve been walking and never hit a ceiling, and pure WEED smell. Sweet, skunk, whatever. As long as it smells like weed. Lol
Something under sixteen weeks
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After reading this thread, i feel super confused about BX, IBL, F, P and now H!
My learning journey has only begun, damn! It’s gonna take a long time too. But when i read something like this and my jaw drops, that is when i get better! Thanks guys this is way too informative!
HppHrvst 
On a side note, if i was a breeder and wanted to market my genetics, in this new legal world, i wouldn’t wait 20 grows to get an F1 as per this definition, i can tell you i would start marketing the “strains” at a P3 when a good selection of phenos has happened and the seeds will not be as pure as the parents, but a good pheno off of the pool.
Does that make any sense?
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A F2 isn’t a F2 anymore… not sure what it is…
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