Cannabis Domestication, Breeding History, Present-day Genetic Diversity, and Future Prospects

but diluting the landrace/heirloom genetics w/ their polyhybrid GHS indoor crap ensured no one else would be able to obtain the genetics after arjan got it. guys a prick!

personally i don’t see it being such an issue though … rich companies with huge R&D budgets will be able to genetically engineer/CRISPR all sorts of interesting cannabis strains and bring lots of diversity back … they could theoretically recreate extinct strains or create entirely brand new strains vastly different than anything there’s ever been … i’m all for genetically modified plants

4 Likes

I agree wholeheartedly, thats not cool.
I can see on the other side of the coin, this is exactly how the landraces came to be in the first place, seeds being shared and spread around and the surviving plants (re)selected over generations.
Maybe with the exception of Himalayas/Nepal the supposed birthplace?

I disagree with the GMO though

2 Likes

This notion that we can just pop old beans is folly. Old seeds do not germ unless they were kept frozen or just above freezing and super dry.

Gord says he found it in a shoebox full of his relationship photos/letters from the 70’s. He planted it straight into grocery store compost in a 5gal and it grew this spring.

Seems to be an original Guerrero to me. Have eight clones of it re-vegging right now. Will be doing a run with it in a few months. Few oldschool guys smelled the plant and freaked out about the smell, “haven’t smelled that in years” kinda nostalgia trip. I’m 28 so it’s new to me, never seen or smelled a plant like it.

Gord says he has no clue what it is, though. He said he used to smoke Thai Stick back in the day. So I just started looking at old photos of Mexican landraces. Gord doesn’t grow, by the way. He just planted it for shits and giggles and it grew.

5 Likes

so you looked at pics of identical plants except for maybe a genetic marker or two…and made your assumption that what is growing is a single specific strain…

sounds like a sound strain lineage test to me.

1 Like

Whatever it is, the DNA is still around. Name it whatever you want.

2 Likes

I will maybe not qualify the outdoor trend as catastrophic than you, mainly because the USA “regulation” pushed the outdoor’s crops to something than i qualify incredible from here. I’m sincere and i’ve tasted some imported nuggets from Col. dispensaries also, one outdoor Ghost Train Haze still stay in mind since soon twos years now.

On grow side, the trend of enormous “californian boababs” maded with indoor strains is also there to temperate my opinion on this vein. When you live from it, you don’t take the risk to bet so many pounds per plant if you’ve not a solid genetic in hand.

In term of breeding, for sure i will not develop an indoor strain the same way than an outdoor strain. But this is not necessary to develop it exclusively outdoor; i will reserve than for jewels than i want to develop along a good decade only. Outdoor breeding don’t only require experience, but also a specific “know how” to never lost one year of work.

I sincerely understand why most of breeders don’t play the outdoor card, it’s a very risky bet to stay on the game between twos hyped-kush-of-the-year. And a very long term bet, no one today will invest in long term project. Or even support them.

On fiber and seeds, the industry of hemp is what we was supposed to copy. Long IBLs are legions, near all certified, and the range of your choices in term of strain is more accurate than ever. I don’t think than any philosophical stress must be created from this part, the work is done and keep going since centuries.

For me, the long term damages are allready running full throttle since soon twos decades in our industry, and it’s getting worse each additionnal year. But it’s a matter of people, not plants. Specific skills, “know how”, methods, experiences and their knowledges are just disapearing from the “everyone culture”. I like to see it like wheel than turn for another cycle, it’s a positive image to share a negative feedback. Because i’ve stopped to like “new strains” of podiums since twos decades.

I don’t rely on abstraction like gov’s regulations or anything like that to search a cause, the cause is us and no one else. I think than we have the cannabis we deserve to wish the most, as a whole community. So i don’t really complain about my lack of interests for the new game, i accept that really and compensate it in creating a “time machine” with plants than make me happy.

Bud and resin production is all the rage since the begin of the story, and it lead the cannabis scene since the begin also. Maybe we can debate on trendy extracts in being picky, and considering than top grade technics in extract’s field can compensate top grade genetic in the flower field. But it’s not really justified imho to link it with the consequences of the “next gen market”.

Loving at least one of these lines at the point to dedicate your lifespan and budget to it is for me the practical way to insure a future to these strains. Because if they fall in the forgotten abyss, it’s at the basis because no one care about them for different reasons. But the consequence is unique : it will extinguish in the darwinian game of the market if someone don’t care about that. And if all is running well.

I was maintaining a ghanna landrace since my prime age and a zamal landrace since the early 2000’s, and reached one point where i was in the obligation to blend them to keep them in my genpool. Speedy relocation, long turn over of plants in these lines, no choice. It was the third time i’ve gived my entire genpool to someone to keep it running during my hard times. And it was the third time than my entire genpool was totally lost lol It’s a solo performance, i can’t be convinced in another way now.

Now on most of natives locations of these original strains, new lines was introduced. The real story of the Durban Poison in the nineties and the nigerian weed scene is imho the perfect explanations of what must be kept in idealism and what is rationnal to think about landraces.

If it’s not a guaranteed key to create “super outdoor plants” at all, it stay a passionating way to explore for sure. But introducing randomly raws landraces in anything will lead nowhere. Better to refine these landraces pures in conformity with an accurate goal in term of hybrids, at least to make them enough competitive to insure than eventually they will survive you.

From my point of view, it’s better to keep them pure as a library for the future. But in don’t letting them go down to hay grade, in improving them. “Unworked” don’t mean for me quality, it mean than the intrinsic qualities of the line was judged to don’t deserve any long term dedication. So the reverse.

It’s an idea i had in past, many times. Taking my whole genpool (at this time it mean the whole africaan continent in landraces and a fews dozens of modern jewels), sowing it directly in soil in March then … restarting from here with an unique mix than i drive to an unique long term strain maded with a fews segregated lines.

If i become millionary and can secure a space for that, i’m sure i will dot it in my old days. But yeah, it don’t have any form of utility. You don’t maintain and care of important landraces as pures, and you can’t live from it the first 5 years at least. The time to stabilize this firework and to make it enough competitive to be bankable.

See ya next quote ^^

8 Likes

Well, short and long term weed is going in one direction by way of 3 different routes. Legalization for medical use is one route, and legalization for recreational use are the other 2 routes. In the end they all wind up the same for growing Cannabis though. Plants numbered like 51x67TR22 in a series of plants growing in a huge indoor grow facility at a company factory anywhere in the world. The harvested plant will wind up on a store shelf in some form or other for its terpenes, cannabinoids, or some combination of both.

How do we get there? Historically weed was a sideline of growing hemp worldwide, and no one really cared much about people getting high on weed or tobacco or getting drunk on booze. They simply taxed the crap out of booze and tobacco. Weed was too small a commodity to tax. Then came the temperance movements in the late 19th century and the holier than thou decided that we all had to sober up. Weed became illegal in California and then Mexico. Booze became illegal and then was repealed, and then weed became illegal in the US and much of the rest of the world. And so weed went underground. Then in the late 20th century California legalized medical marijuana, and things started to ease up. More states followed, and then in the 21st century states started legalizing rec weed. By now several nations and many US states have legalized rec weed, and many more have legalized medical weed.

And so medical and recreational weed are the paths of the future for weed. BIG Pharma is already invested and involved heavily in weed, with the likes of GW Pharma and Bayer. Cannabis has over 500 known phyto cannabinoids that mimic human hormones and chemical activity, and these can be tapped into for producing a wide range of pharmaceuticals for cancer, sleep aids, stimulants, pain relief, epilepsy, diet control, etc etc. So in those cases plants will be selected and bred and targeted to produce specific cannabinoids and terpinoids for putting into Rx drugs. This will be HUGE business in the billions worldwide. The other two routes are both targeted to the recreational use of Cannabis. One being the alcohol and soda pop industry, and the other being the tobacco industry. Both have a leg up on the pharma business as they already grown and process plants for human consumption. All they need are plants to be grown and harvested with specific flavors by breeding for terpene profiles, and specific highs by breeding for cannabinoid combinations. All they have to do is put them into already established packaging and distribution, and on the shelves they go for the consumer to buy.

For all three business models, they already have a marketing, advertising and lobby system in place. They already have distribution, sales and store shelves. They also have armies of people to make it all happen, and fast. Also most importantly, they already have product branding. Marlboro, for example, is the #1 recognized brand in the world. Coca Cola and Budweiser are not far behind. All these companies have to do is inject Cannabis plant breeding, growing, harvesting and extracting into their processes, and they are good to go. No one will be able to compete with these guys. They are too big. They command market share and they have the shelf space in stores. They have all the money they want to invest. Which is another aspect of the future of weed. It will all be off the shelf buying for 95% or more of the business. Sure, there will be home growers like us around, like there are home brewers of beer around. We will be the exception and not the rule though. Already in California, 50% of the smoking weed market is oil cartridges. E-cigs and E-joints will be the wave of the future. Beverages have yet to take off, but I think they will. Corona brewing is putting a lot of money into Cannabis these days. Its only a matter of time before they come up with a Cannabis beverage that kicks ass. As for Big Pharma, there are dozens of medical applications for cannabinoids that are already patented by the likes of GW and the US gov’t. Critical this year in the election cycle is the fact that the Mormon Church (LDS) has now flipped its stance on medical marijuana, and is now supporting it in Utah. If religion gets behind medical weed, there will no no stopping it being made legal worldwide. And wherever medical goes legal, recreational usually follows.

As for all of this being a problem or a solution to anything, that is a moot point. Chronic addiction will be a bigger problem. The tobacco companies will figure out the terpene profiles to get people addicted to their brands of joints and e-joints, as will Coca Cola. Remember that Coke started with cocaine as an ingredient for their colas. Cigarettes will be blended with weed, and alcohol will be blended with weed. New medical issues are apt to pop up from the overuse of Cannabis. According to many in what is left of the temperance movement, this will lead to the end of the world, all over again. And in the end, all of this home grown, online seed companies, and even this forum are apt to disappear. I mean, who grows their own tobacco any more? Or even rolls their own cigarettes? It will all be off-the-shelf Cannabis products, either Rx in pills and lotions, in e-joints/e-cig combos, or in a beverage can. Weed will be a consumer product commodity, and taxed the crap out of like booze and tobacco are now. The good news will the Cannabis Rx industry IMO. We may be able to cure many types of cancer with Cannabis. I use it as a sleep aid, a pain aid, and a mood enhancer myself. I also smoke weed to cool off in summer heat. Did you ever notice that weed lowers your body temperature? At least in higher doses it does.

6 Likes

I agree with basically everything you just wrote. It’s hard to find any absolutes in any of this. Neither right nor wrong. It is what it is - which is to say, there’s no solutions because the problems are inevitable as seen countless times before.

I love the way weed keeps me cool in the summer. I’ve often mentioned this to people and usually received a blank stare in return.

Ones and Zeros - Jack Johnson:

There’s a black hole pulling me in
I slowly bend till I see the back of my own sins
I stole my soul from myself now I wonder

Wonder, is there somebody with a perfect plan
That goes boom when it’s stamped and we could understand
How the gods of old used to clap their hands to make thunder

So we’re clapping and we’re laughing like it was so absurd
In the future we’ll be laughing at who we were right now
As man plays god with the land that he plunders

To the one unknown no one can know nor see
That’s resistant to greed
If we listen to time after time, time can never go under

There’s this vine trying to climb
Through the window into my life
I don’t mind
I don’t mind
I don’t mind
There’s this wine trying to find
It’s way from the bottle into my mind
In my mind
In my mind
In my mind

And so this vine is trying to climb
Through the window into my life
To bring me symmetry
And memories of a backlit breeze
Back into a dream on the ground
Looking up at the sun coming down

Into a world of boys and girls
Are holding handheld devices
While they’re eating and they’re sleeping
And they’re dreaming of the prices
We’ll be paying down the line
When the ice melts maybe it will turn to wine

And all the greatest of the heroes started jumping from the books
They started wearing ones and zeros
Looking more and more like crooks
They stole the sunlight from the future
Took a sip, drained half the glass, and put it back

And a lot of people like to have a feast
Not so many could stomach the killing
Lot of traffic on the streets, so who’s really doing all the drilling
Keep on filling what can never be full
My imagination has got a hold on me

There’s this vine trying to climb
Through the window into my life
I don’t mind
I don’t mind
I don’t mind
There’s this wine trying to find
It’s way from the bottle into my mind
In my mind
In my mind
In my mind

1 Like

Well, I know one direction that will be a failure. The current Oregon weed shop model. I went into one today. Polished oak floors and neon signs. A list of weed strains, and against one wall an array of glass jars full of buds. They had maybe 20 strains on their list, all but one were new crosses that I have never heard of. I did not see anything I was interested in, except the Maui. But I have a Maui Wowie plant growing here now, so I do not need to pay for more of that. One guy behind the counter was pushing pre-rolled. And so my future model seems to be unfolding. Pre-rolled joints are the wave of the future like cigarettes are now, along with oil cartridges.

But the prices? Yeow! I thought that weed prices were supposed to be dropping in Oregon. They wanted like $300 for an oz of the Maui. 300 clams was more than I paid for the best black market weed from the Emerald Triangle before I went completely to growing my own. I can see how they can afford the rent and 4 people working there. But I found the experience lacking. I am old school and I would rather talk to a dealer in the living room of a friend’s house, smoke a J and look over the weed he has to sell. May as well just go to Costco and buy a pack of pre-rolled Kings Hawaiian brand Kona Gold in my future, along with a 5th of vodka and a carton of Winstons. I will be heavily supporting the state tax coffers that way, sucking up Social Security and turning it around to pay excise taxes for my vices.

4 Likes

100%

It’s laughable to think that any government organization is capable of doing anything 100% effectively.

2 Likes

@PanchoVilla, I have a buddy in Oregon, that goes by Mud, that could have written your comment almost exactly! He’s growing Maui Wowie, is disgusted by the Oregon dispensary scene, but I don’t think he has an interest in joining the cannabis market since he’s retired.

Where did you source the Maui genetics from? Does it have any skunk smell to it or just a clean floral soaring high?

1 Like

My Maui Wowee beans came from Mr GreenGenes genetics via Europe. 1978 Cherry Bomb. They have some variable phenos, from all green to all purple stems, to half green and half purple stems. Some have white pistils and others have pink pistils. No skunk in this at all. It had floral mix of pineapple and cherry smells at harvest, and it has a clean floral uplifting mind and body high to it. Party weed, and good for sex weed. No couch lock. No head rushes. Este mota esta bueno.

4 Likes

That’s the same stuff I’m growing soon. It’s exactly as you described! The stuff is so good. Sourced it from swami’s seeds.

7 Likes

Likely Swami got them from the same source that mine came from. I have seeds of this Maui/Cherry Bomb strain to trade if anyone is interested. Regular seeds (not auto, not fem) bred IBL from cousins, fresh from this year’s grow. They bloom a little later outdoors here and finish in mid October. The smell of the fresh cut colas are amazing. Though that will vary depending on growing conditions, like most strains and terpenes.

4 Likes

Here is some good lengthy info on genotypes and cannabis history in general , some qaurintine reading for you all :grin:

3 Likes

Awesome… 8 pages in…

1 Like

I have been watching a lot of Kevin Jordy’s videos on YouTube he sounds like he has some of these old genetics in his library and he’s trying to get skunk back. I remember smoking skunk back in the day I have always wanted to grow the Skunk#1 but have never ordered the seeds or found anyone who has clones. I love to learn as much as possible about the past genetics and that some growers still have these but keep them exclusively for themselves.

I’ve yet to see anybody pull a even remotely skunky plant out of skunk #1, there all sweet or boring earthy terps. So many people looking for it in the claims of others when they need to be recombining certain landraces and hunting the results.

2 Likes