Cheap LED Strips : A Viable Alternative

Growroom Design
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1467

Thanks for your insight, I am definitely considering all the aforementioned info as well.

For me replacing all the drivers (only ran one 8 wk cycle so far) seems a bit on the costly/wasteful side IMO as I wouldn’t have any current use for the spare drivers. As well as this would double my draw which I am not sure I can support on my current electrics as that circuit includes vertical farms, 1500cfm of air movement, dehumidifier, circ pumps, heat mats, seed fridge, 1200w rosin press, and another 480w draw LED light for veg that I need running at any given time.

As per blue in the spectrum for EB2s this is something I have not currently factored. I had hoped that the EB3 were inherently much redder for the rated temperature and would help offset this but maybe not at the 4000k temperature.

As per temps and RH I developed my environmental controls to regulate in this range for optimal VPD, I should also mention that I am averaging temperature measurements above lights, at canopy and at soil level as I measure all three.

1468

How did you arrive at the 4000k choice for flowering?

EB3 aren’t inherently much redder than EB2, and the Thrive are pretty low efficiency and unproven, so I wouldn’t necessarily jump at them. Short of redoing your system from the ground up, proper course of action looks like adding a single 320H to power the 10x 2700k eb3 strips and call it good. :slight_smile:

Are you sure you’ve got the VPD numbers right? Seems like your 28C and 50% humidity is very far off from recommended VPD (green cells):

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1469

Yeah, that’s where I think I am headed. DigiKey have doesn’t seem to 2700K so I will likely end up with 3000k.

As per VPD yeah like you said it is very difficult to stay in the VPD window when you need to stay below 60% RH and stay in survivable ranges of temperature for cannabis. Naturally, my ambient air this time of year is 80-90RH and currently 8C outside and not much different in the summer 65-70RH and 20-25C, so I tend to stay under the curve in case of system failure. You will notice that the window is much more forgiving in the lower temps and lower humidity as things progress into flower.

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1470

I’m not trying to argue, but I’m curious where you’re getting your info. It’s very different from the information most people here use and recommend.

Why would you need to stay below 60% humidity, and what’s survivable range of temps for cannabis? Most commercial grows that use CO2 let temps get up into the high 80s and their plants do great. Greenhouses get up to the high 90s and they also grow great weed. Jungles in SE Asia hit 100F routinely and plants grow 15ft tall in clearings.

I’ve grown plants successfully from highs of 100F to lows of 40F at night, and everywhere in between. It’s a weed, lest we forget. :wink:

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1471

All good sir. The VPD chart you provided is just a general VPD chart for ALL plants not cannabis as I provided.

Survivable in terms of cold. I am PNW, cold, wet rainy most of the year. Having things below 60RH in this part of the world reduces your chances of Botrytis that is readily floating around in the air up here with numerous other harmful spores etc that will explode in population at any higher than 60 IME.

The temperatures I listed are natively what the system wants to do as configured, having it set as such keeps things viable but not perfect, this is what I mean by optimal - optimal for my environment and systems

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1472

Good Evening Oh wise LED gurus :slight_smile: please help a brother out

a member here @nefrella posted this link somewhere else

thank you for the link

I have an amazon card I need to use

here is the question could I use these 4 foots light to replace 4 foot lights T 12 s

to run over cloners and seedlings?

would each 4 foot LED light replace a 4 foot shop light or do you need two LEDS?

thank you for your help and all the best

Dequilo

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1473

Hey Dequillo,

I have these exact lights in my breeder tents and use a similar one in all my vertical farms, over clones and seedlings they are decent lights… My plan with them is for Autos in small spaces and have yet to run them for that but they do well for the price it seems in my systems so far, that being said you could likely build something better with the knowledge and links in this thread! Hope this helps friend.

Edit: to answer your question more precisely I am not sure what a T4 is kicking out in terms of lux but with 8X 2’ versions in a 2x2x3’ tent will max out around 30K lux

1474

@TerpSneeze thanks for the reply I have a bakers rake with three shelfs

that I have two twin bulb T-12 shop light over each shelf

I was going to pickup a six pack and burn this card at no cost to me :slight_smile:

cheaper than buying new shop lights and bulbs

just trying to find out how many LEDs per shelf

thank you and be safe

Dequilo

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1475

No problemo Dequilo, I edited the last post to try and answer that a bit better… The 8x 2’ lights would be equivilent to 4x 4’ lights as linked above. With those 4 lights you will max out around 30k lux within a few inches of the lights. I would say you will need atleast 2 per shelf, I currently run a Sunblaster 48w 48" long along with 2x 12w also 48" long white Barrina shop lights on any shelves I have seedlings, clones, and they seem to be very happy most of the time

Hope this helps

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1476

@TerpSneeze thank you and I think I get it :slight_smile:

I would need four of the four foot LEDs to replace two twin tube (4 bulbs)T-12s shop lights

is that correct?

all the best be safe

Dequilo

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1477

Thats the part that i am unsure of as I mentioned I am not sure what your current lights you are replacing put out. I run a total of 64w of LED per shelf for cannabis and only 36w for veggies, greens and other flowers. 2 of the lights you linked would be ~90w so more than enough in my mind. Do you have a lux meter? If you could get a measurement then we would know better.

Hope this helps

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1478

why nobody buy diodes another brand like Seoul semiconductors for example? They have diodes 218 lm per w.
there are some strips this firm on the digikey.

1479

just like samsung lm301b diodes, take a look at what the prices of those strips and what the outputs are in comparison and you will see why not many use them.

Price vs what you get even though less efficient the EB2’s and EB3 regulars are the best strip for the money, not that other strips aren’t better or whatever just cost you can typically get 2-3x as many strips or more for the same price.

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1480

Absolutely. Lest we forget indeed. There’s always a harder way. :sunglasses:

:cowboy_hat_face::mask::chile:

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1481

Driver question for any of you pros around here.

Looking at ,xlg-200-h-ab it says 27v-56v. Is that 27v through 56v; OR 27v or 56v?

Wondering how you might hook up some 560mm either EB2 or EB3 13w I believe or even potentially the thrive at 19w?

Do you basically put two in series to essentially make one strip, and then take however many of those and wire those in parallel?

I also thought I saw pwm dimming but I also feel like I have heard potentiometers recommended, so which is it or does it depend on driver?

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1482

Wattage is nearly irrelevant when designing a system. It’s only useful as a general guide of how much gear’s needed to illuminate a given space, not in determining what gear.

XLG series gives you a wide range, in this case 27 thru 56v, that you need to match to your drivers voltage requirements, which are:

19.5v (eb2)
19.1v (eb3)
20.3v (thrive)

But that’s range isn’t necessarily useful. It depends on the application. XLG is good for 240w and below and they are rated pretty accurately. HLG is good for 240w and above applications, and they’re quite conservatively rated, so they’re overclocked out of the factory and they give you 5-15% more output than spec.

You pick a strip series to use, then match the drivers to your strips’ needs, then wire them as necessary to achieve the desire voltage. Lots of options specific to your needs that have been discussed in the last 100 posts or so. :slight_smile: Worth reviewing.

Dimming can be pwm, built-in, or wired potentiometers or some variety on each driver. You just have to read the spec sheets and figure out which you want. Built-in pots on the drivers only allow current adjustment from 50-100%, whereas the pot leads allow 10-100% with the right pots. I don’t know anything about the pwm dimming other than it’s possible on certain models.

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1483

When you say hlg good for 240w and above, are you saying they aren’t good for less than that or it’s just more so a waste of money sort of thing?

As far as wattage for being irrelevant, as my plans have constantly been changing and evolving, essentially what I do is let’s say I’m aiming for 35-40w/sqft capable (even tho those lux totals may differ between models/brands), I figure my sqft (4 for ex), so 140-160w total in lights, let’s say 8 thrive (20w?) so 160w, then I look for a driver with room to spare like the xlg-200(w)…

The only part I get a lil hung up on, if my process is sort of correct so far, is possibly making sure I’m in the amp range of the driver only because I don’t pay as much attention to the amps of either the driver or LEDs…

My understanding is that if a driver is rated a certain wattage, it can provide certain amount of amps depending on what voltage the load is pulling at, but the driver will always be able to provide up to this total watts within its volt range…

So for ex with that xlg, at 27v, it should be able to provide (200w/27v=) approx 7.4amps, where as on the other end of 54v, it should only be able to provide up to (200w/54v=) approx 3.7 amps.

It is also my understanding that by dimmer, you can overdrive the leds, where the voltage stays the same and then the dimmer increases the amps beyond the nominal rating of the leds but still under the capacity of what the driver can provide? I guess that would be a constant voltage type driver? And a with a constant current driver the dimmer would be changing the voltage to overdrive?

Do you know what that xlg is, cv or cc? just looked further into and am seeing conflicting info

Also, as far as the past 100 post or whatever, there are still tiny holes in my knowledge to be filled damnit! :joy:

I could totally be wrong about parts or all of this and if I am, please correct me where I’m wrong so I don’t burn down my house :wink::rofl::man_facepalming:t2: @nube @Mr.Sparkle

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1484

HLG’s are more robustly built, they are more capable of running over driven or over spec and being able to do so without issue, you should still plan on matching your “ideal or desired” wattage with what your driver is capable of plus a little leeway if possible.

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1485

I believe you’re quoting voltage range specs for the XLG-240 not the 200, FYI. I thought it was just a typo last night but you keep quoting the range of 27-56v and saying XLG 200, but that range’s for the 240.

XLG-200-SPEC.PDF (1.1 MB)

XLG-240-SPEC-1.PDF (772.4 KB)

And I think you’re making this too hard with all the hashing and rehashing and theorycrafting. I think you’re chasing your tail. Use the info and builds and parts lists provided before. Look at some of the DIY builds for a space your size at LEDGardener. Go with EB2 or EB3 regs and call it good. EB3 is a drop in replacement in EB2 builds that gets you greater efficiency and the possibility of 90cri.

We’re happy to help but you’re kinda going around in circles at this point. As I mentioned before to you and others, agonizing over the minutiae won’t benefit you in the long run. You still have to grow good ganj, which is the hardest part when you start.

You have all the info you need. Use the tools and answers already provided. The spec sheets provide answers to almost everything you asked. But more importantly, look at existing builds that are tried and tested. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Don’t try to reinvent the wheel. Etc. etc. and platitude upon platitude.

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1486

@nube I appreciate all the help and general advice about running in circles and what not that you and everyone else has given to me and others on this thread, however I still have specific questions and am also figuring more out on my own; let me worry about redoing my plans millions of time to take over the world :laughing:

PS the XLG-200 comes in a few varieties which is also why I have gotten confused and still am a bit about it being constant voltage or current (and not exactly sure what constant power is either lol):

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*Just noticed the varieties in your pdf as well.

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