I may be wrong but I think what he means is dollar wise. From a paid by click advertising outlook if a long time member left and was replaced with a new user that clicks as much nothing would change financially. What would change is the wealth of knowledge that this place and it’s members hold. Being new does not make you bad. Being here a long time does not make you good. I think its just important we don’t replace the gardeners on the grow site with vampires. We want new users, well at least I do, as long as they want to be part of the community. Learn, share, teach and be involved. If you do that you will be welcomed with open arms. Come just for the perks and you will be shunned and called out.
10 Likes
I don’t think anyone (Joe included) looks as OG from strictly a money making perspective.
2 Likes
Call us the super bowl of forums out there on the inter web . I doubt there’s few if any that has this amount of stress free (for the most part) of info and general friendly help and advise available 24 hrs a day ? Plus you can make friends have fun and win shit !
Let’s not make this the rise of the falling of the site. That’s my 2 pennies.
5 Likes
I’m playing devil’s advocate here. But there is a lack of transparency because this is a business. It undeniably makes him a living, which means that if we are doing these auctions that have been condoned by Joe, well he has a financial motivator to allow them to happen. If he clamped down and said no more that would be literally thousands a year removed from his revenue.
4 Likes
I don’t want the old members to leave either.
I just recognize change is a constant.
Threatening to leave because you don’t like the direction of the change won’t correct the course.
Threatening to leave unless the course is corrected to what it was before won’t correct the course either.
5 Likes
I am doing one late September 
It was already set and seeds purchased, out of my pocket mind you, for this to happen. Won’t be breaking my word since I told him I would do it, don’t hate me 
5 Likes
The auctions are irrelevant IMO, as are the seed giveaways.
No one forces anyone to partake.
The fact that both bring new members and revenue to the site mean neither are going away.
1 Like
Not at all, check this list, many people you may have not known but it can be refreshed … 
4 Likes
I vote we turn this post to private from the general population and continue everyone that’s voiced there concerns is here to continue discussing . Does target tell sams club it’s dirty laundry? Just a thought .
4 Likes
I’d agree if we had 100% transparency on how much was being generated and what it was being used for. Let me point out I’m not begrudging him or anyone else from making a living this way. Salaries are a legit use of revenue., But now that we have the new server, and it’s been migrated, the current costs should be fairly minimal. Basically paying for power, mods time, and the licensing for the forum software (which is only a few hundred every 2 years).
2 Likes
I don’t think it’s any of our business.
If that was my business, no. Polite no followed by a not so polite no if asked again.
5 Likes
Agreed. It’s a business. But I also haven’t seen joe put together anything saying that we are in danger of shutting down because of lack of revenue. If anything the possibility of an extra 1k every so often could be construed as a motivator to let auctions happen.
But the lack of transparency also shows that altruism isn’t the only motivating factor here. There is a reason that non profits have transparency laws to follow (to a point)
Man, this devil’s advocate shit is hard. I’m trying to think of negative motivations for things I’m personally fine with.
1 Like
Do not think of it as a business, think of it as non-profit. Salaries are legitimate, but there is a huge burden of transparency to the donors.
As I donate to this page, getting nothing in return I don’t get for free, I say it is my business.
1 Like
But if I donate via an auction, i get seeds.
Why should this be thought so as a non profit?
Why is profit a bad thing?
2 Likes
It’s not, but could be seen as a reason to allow auctions/raffles to happen, despite the crisis of ethics that it seems to be to the older OG crowd.
Think of it like this. I’m new at a farmers market, all the older established people have excellent table positioning by being there and climbing the ladder. I say, hey I’ll give you 25% to give me a prime table and get it. Wouldnt you get mad as an established person?
3 Likes
That’s fine if he was open w the motivations of the site. Is he running a business? Bc about a year ago it was very altruistic and for the good of the community. Lately there’s been a whole lot more money flowing in and Joe has stayed absolutely silent despite being asked how much is being brought in and how much was actually needed to operate.
Feels like a bait and switch- $$ was requested for the good of the site and the people. It started rolling in at a pace more than I expected to see, but he no longer is saying we absolutely need it but it’s not being turned down either.
Be honest- if you’re running the site to make $$ and everything generated goes in your pocket- great at least it’s out in the open and people can decide if that’s a place they want to support. But don’t put this altruistic for the community face on and laugh all the way to the bank as the $$ rolls in. That’s where I get stuck, not sure about others.
And don’t turn this place of information sharing into another seed selling site. Keep that shit off of here- auctions, straight up seed sales, etc. Just asking for trouble and a total change in the vibe.
7 Likes
You are correct about those who do not donate independently of raffles and auctions. Not that I think any less of the donations though.
I am a board member of a community theatre. We are a non profit, because we only spend our money internally. We gain money, because there is nothing wrong with growing. But unlike a company where profits pay the business owner directly or dividends to shareholders, the extra money donated is spent inside. To the benefit of what the money was intended for.
Now I donate a small amount, so I don’t hold my opinion at a high value- but if I were seeing the servers resources spent overwhelmingly on things I didn’t agree with, I would be upset. Transparency let’s you explain to the donors why you had to do what you did, and often they appreciate it.
1 Like
I can understand, but the ethics and optics have changed a little.
What used to be illegal and clandestine is now open and profitable.
1 Like
It’s not but dishonesty is a bad thing. If the vision and mission of the site has changed, say it. Don’t act like nothing has changed despite the thousands of dollars that roll in regularly that weren’t there before. And why people feel the need to raise money for a business that’s already generating revenue is way beyond me.
2 Likes
That’s about profit though.