Making the most out of a bad situation

Sick Plants & Problems
, , , ,
1

Hi all. Back again! Hope everyone is growing some dank and getting ready for a warm summer.

Just finished my last grow. Had to pull 2 weeks early due to seeding out. I was/am hoping it was just the fact it was crappy hand me down genetics since I babied them every day and ensured no light leaks. I managed to put some money aside to get some feminized Northern Lights from Canuk. I grew 9 altogether but three in particular unexpectedly stretched in my grow room and took me off guard, so I moved them into my flower room under 1000w HPS. The problem is I have a 6ā€™5" tall room and these plants are easily 5ā€™11" at least so the main colas end up sitting higher than my reflector. Of course this caused some light bleaching as seen in this pic

DSC_0141.JPG1154Ɨ866 100 KB

Which is the most light burn Iā€™ve seen in my garden, I now moved the plants farther away (which sucks because now I have nothing directly under my light) but this light burn seems really concerning to me. 4 weeks into flower and Iā€™d say 50% of the fan leaves on my best plant are like above.

Btw I know this looks like mites but Iā€™ve been checking thoroughly with my loupe, I did have a couple early on in veg which I treated with insecticidal soap and rosemary oil.

Also one plant keeps getting these hard red scabs on stems of fan leaves closest to the canopy. They actually look like a mite at first glance but bigger, and they are not moving, and stuck like glue to the stem, picking them off is not easy at all kinda like a scab, and they are either blood red or light orange. Under a loupe it looks organic but not living itā€™s so strange sorry I donā€™t have pics because I havenā€™t seen them in a few days. Iā€™ve battled mites and gnats and neither of them leave stuff around like that.

Just having so many issues is discouraging, my last 4 grows have been disasterous and my yield has been less than stellar with a 35g average. I can barely afford to keep my lights on plus a basic A+B nutrient all so I can have my medicine. Then thereā€™s the fact that as a Canadian all the best pesticides and pest solutions are banned here, or jacked up in price. Same with nutrients. It just sucks.

Donā€™t these plants look awkward and terrible with their 2 colas and no midsection? Lol losing hope.

DSC_0144.JPG1154Ɨ866 139 KB

DSC_0143.JPG1154Ɨ866 110 KB

5 Likes
2

@Lucy247420 Donā€™t be so hard on yourself they arenā€™t bad, but it looks like you would benefit from some topping and low stress training on your next grow. Also, try flipping to flower sooner next time. Anticipate The Stretch. Just keep learning from your mistakes.

You could try tilting the plants toward the light, as in the pot itself, propping it at like a 45 degree angle. Youā€™ll likely need something to help support the plant though.

Best of luck, happy growinā€™!

@Mr.Sparkle do you think itā€™s too late for FlopTek?

6 Likes
3

May I ask, what are your average temps and running humidity?
Grow medium and Feeding schedule?
Thatā€™s a lot of stretch for that much light.

7 Likes
4

They are grown in a veg room under wide spectrum grolux t8s and some daylight fluoros around the sides but they tend to just reach for the grolux.

The other 6 bottomed out in veg at around 4 feet and stopped stretching now they are finally putting on some horizontal growth along the two main colas. Pics incoming on my next trip to the room. The only reason Iā€™ve left the last 6 in veg this long is because Im worried I donā€™t have things dialed in in the flower room.

RH is mid 50s but my hygrometer is not the best. Temp is 20C lights out 25C lights on. Airflow isnt the best but do indeed have intake and exhaust ducts working steady.

Growing in promix with Dutch Nutrient Formula A+B. Canā€™t tell you exact pH since my meter is broke but testing kit is light orange. Straight tap water is dark green here btw.

Also, Iā€™m not getting good drainage and never do. I use to water until runoff and then my dirt would stay saturated for weeks. This of course caused root rot which in turn brought gnats so I now have to give a set amount and never get runoff at all and it still takes a week to dry out. So it never gets straight water I just give it water with nutrients once a week.

I never overpack my dirt when I TP and itā€™s mixed well and broken up so Iā€™ve never been able to figure it out.

1 Like
5

And with LST and topping/fimming, I always aggressive LST and FIM but held back this time because I was worried it was causing stress leading to hermaphroditism in my last couple grows.

The stretch you see here happened during veg over the course of like 4 days it was astonishing to see them stretch that fast since they were only 26 days from seed to 5 feet tall! Still I realize I was too late. Iā€™m beyond the point of leaning them over but at least I got them to a point where they arenā€™t getting bleached from being too close to light, and o have some 4 foot plants almost ready to fill out the holes still in the flower room.

6

Iā€™ve in the past tied them down at this stage.
Usually Iā€™ll let them get dry just short of wilt.
The stems are less rigid that way and very flexible.

4 Likes
7

Thanks for the heads up, Iā€™m still trying to figure out a game plan because I got I got a few more ready to go into the flower room any day now. 4 actually, got a couple that are stunted.

1 Like
8

So you say the stretch occurred while they were under the T8s? Whatā€™s the distance from light<-> canopy in your veg room?

I donā€™t think the LST/topping was stressing too much unless you were doing it super heavy. If they are stretching that much you are going to have to get a handle on it as early as possible and LST/topping are your best bet. A little late I think this time around though :frowning2: but live and learn! Just keep them as close to the light as you can, I am not totally convinced that is light bleaching/burn though. Perhaps someone else might chime in with an alternative diagnosis?

3 Likes
9

Re: Veg room

DSC_0148.JPG1154Ɨ866 102 KB

Keep in mind those are 1g pots not huge huge plants lol.

These are filling out a lot nicer lots of branches along the two main colas and the plants themselves have bottomed out at an average 4 feet.

I took some cuttings a couple weeks ago and put them in my aerocloner but they wouldnā€™t root, but Iā€™m hoping I can snatch a few still off these and hopefully they root to keep things perpetual or Iā€™m in trouble. Iā€™ve never cloned from a plant grown from feminized seed I wonder if itā€™s less consistent because I had 100% cloning success on strains grown from clone and reg in the past using an aerocloner.

The plant on the bottom right plus one not shown are stunted I think Iā€™ll just stick them somewhere outside and hope they grow :smile:

2 Likes
10

For these I kept the t8s an inch or so away from the top canopy, moving it up only another inch when the canopy grew into and touched the bulb. Eventually 3 were outpacing the others so those are the 3 monsters you see in the flower room.

Edit: about the light bleaching, itā€™s happening only on the leaves closest to the light, and the side of the plant facing away from the light is spotless. I know it looks just like mite damage but Iā€™m super thorough daily checking for them and shower+spray shoes with pyrethrin every time before I enter. I still get them every grow to an extent btw, and canā€™t use ladybugs so I have nothing but insecticidal soap to fight them in flower, but Iā€™m not seeing them at all anywhere on this plant including when I use toothpicks to open the buds. In fact because of previous experience Iā€™m SURE there is mite or possibly even an egg or two somewhere in my room despite being thorough asf including bombing. If this spotting is caused by mites Iā€™ll eat my shoe.

11

Well the scabs you describe scream fungal attack along with the 50% humidity.

1 Like
12

I donā€™t think my hygrometer is correct it never read that high before even with exhaust turned off and it fell on the floor a couple times. Used to be high 40s this time of year never would get to 50 and it doesnā€™t feel super muggy either.

As for fungus ive not had such problem in the past I have to look more into it. Iā€™ve never encountered mold or wpm in my grow even after heavy foliar.

Iā€™m non organic so for root problems I use H2O2 and I also do an h202 foliar during veg.

13

that doesnā€™t really look like any light bleaching iā€™ve seen beforeā€¦ it looks more spotty like pests or something mites or thripsā€¦ is this damage only on leaves highest up? if this damage is on any leaves 1-2 feet below the light its probably not from thatā€¦

the fact you said you had some mites earlier in veg is kinda questionable tooā€¦ what did you do to get rid of them?

edit: wow! these are just starting to flower and theyā€™re already 6 feet tall? you might want to just cut 3 feet off the plant and flower it like thatā€¦

6 Likes
14

We will get you sorted ā€œanother Canadian here as wellā€

First your mention of red scabs on your stems made me think of these.

Referred to as ā€œScaleā€

Never have had it, or dealt with it, but its a pest that behaves similar to aphids.

Does it look familiar, if not grab a picture for us so we can see the issue

Not my image.
https://www.marijuanatimes.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/scale.jpg

Also iā€™ll back up others here @Morgwar that you can still tie or flop them over at around 4 weeks into flower, just have to be a bit more gentle on the stems, and best done before needing watering as mentioned as they are more pliable as there cell walls wonā€™t be packed with water.

But you do have a crap ton of height we can deal with on future plants, unless you want to work on these right now.

5 Likes
15

Edit reason: was adding bit more to the post

Also issues aside which we can deal with here, but lets get some bases for a bit of discussion here.
Then we can get you started with a grow journal, as its a really helpful way to learn and share and discuss in this community.

So what are your goals, looking for max yield with your setup? or growing quality plants for your own consumption? or a little of both and just progressing as a grower ?

Now you were saying you were getting around 35g from each plant ? out of 1 gal bags or in total ? I presume the former.

Also what are you growing with 600w MH, in i think you mentioned soilless mix ā€œpromix, sunshine mix ectā€ and have had watering issues in the past which to me makes sense but we can discuss that later.

Plant wise currently they are definitely stretching for the light and with your mention of using some t8 and cfls around the edges if in a bigger space it would definitely happen without and training, so lets get you plants that are vegging squared away first and your ones in flower dealt with before throwing them together.

So where do you want to start ? or what to tackle first. we will get you squared away :wink: but one step at a time as its just easier that way.

5 Likes
16

Lets start with the vegging plants, first just my opinion here but will be most likely backed by others like @legalcanada already mentioned , i would say you have overvegged your plants by a good three+ feet, as plants donā€™t need to be that big when being thrown into flower as they will continue to grow over the next 4-5 weeks so your just looking for a good base to start with not a massive tree thats in a 1 gal pot.

Iā€™d chop everything back to about 3-4 nodes worth and then let them veg for a little bit ā€œweek or soā€ before id be thinking about throwing them into flower, and with a bit of training before hand we should get you started on a nice level canopy.

As an example all the red marked stuff i would just remove, its gonna seem mega harsh but the plants can handle it easily so long as they are healthy which they all look too be, and yes its F*ing drastic but lets get you squared away and setup on a good footing.

Then we can move onto getting you setup flowering wise and dealing with your current plants.

But gonna ask and want you to think about it, how much are your looking to yield per cycle as that will ultimate dictate what you will need to do or what size plants to run to get what you want.

5 Likes
17

Thanks for the replies as always guys. Itā€™s 4am here and woke up and saw this. Iā€™ll post more in the morning but a few things I wanted to clarify.

Those plants in veg are no more than 4 feet currently. Those are small 1 gallon pots they are in. Itā€™s like an optical illustion because of the angle I think. I was considering chopping a bit off though, but not sure Iā€™ll have the time to veg it out any longer before they HAVE to go into the flower room to ensure a perpetual crop.

Am growing with one 1000w HPS.

My goals are to grow good medicine with adequate yields to keep me and wifey going til next harvest (We go through about 100g a month). Iā€™m not a new grower, but I am a noob. This is close to 30 indoor grows for me and Iā€™ve only ever had 2 that were like ā€œWow this is awesome and good yield tooā€

Iā€™ve done textbook LST, FIM/Top on almost all my grows and in the end yes lots more tops but small airy buds and nothing substantial.

Biggest plant Iā€™ve harvested was 54g and smallest was 13g.

5 out of my last 7 grows have gone hermie so Iā€™m also trying to get over that.

As far as mites go I have Insectisidal Soap and my own concoction of rosemary, peppermint and cinnamon oil. Iā€™ve had one terrible infestation 2 grows back and lost 3 of 12 plants.

I live in rural canada, am disabled, same with wife. We have no money (weā€™re going under just running our HPS to be completely honest)

We travelled to the city once with a little bit of money we saved to try to buy better products but every place we went to said ā€œCanada doesnā€™t allow most miticides, and the ones that are available donā€™t work at allā€ So drove all the way back home empty handed.

She is terrified of bugs so I canā€™t even introduce ladybugs to the system sheā€™ll only let me use poisons lol.

I really REALLY donā€™t think this is mites, as my vision is quite good and Iā€™ve gotten good at spotting them with the naked eye even from afar yet I can comb this plant from top to bottom with a loupe and see nothing. It could definitely be some other pest but not mites and of course not gnats as Iā€™m not seeing any signs of them either. In my experience when I see that speckling from mites, itā€™s usually only on a small part of one leaf and I need only look under it and itā€™s adjacent leaves to find them. Not the case here unless theyā€™re moving down to the soil during the night lol. No webbing or anything either and the speckling you see in the pictures would indicate a very bad infestation where theyā€™d be visible everywhere.

Itā€™s literally only on the leaves closest to the light. The colas that stretched higher than my reflector have no such damage, neither do the backsides or any of the lower leaves. The leaves did this speckling only in the places that were hot to hold my hand. And they were MUCH closer to the light than you see in this picture hence why theyā€™re spread apart now.

Iā€™ll be going over them again tomorrow as I do every day though and keep you updated.

As for the ā€˜scaleā€™ I thought it was that too until I looked up pics of scale. These things Iā€™m seeing are that size though, but never in a cluster its just a single one on a stem near the canopy. They look almost as if you pricked your finger with a needle then let that little blob of blood dry. Only its solid bright red or solid neon orange. Iā€™ve been picking em off as I find them and havenā€™t saw any in a few days whereas there was a new one every day there for a while.

Thanks so much for the support I really canā€™t tell you how grateful I am to talk to people who know about this stuff.

3 Likes
18

I agree with @KingGhidora that with the ones that are under the 1000w they could be leaned over in the pots or even re-potted so the plants are sideways to bring the canopy down.

With the vegging plants, I would suggest doing the same or simply chopping them back down to half of what they are at the moment.

I just feel that for the room you have that you are trying to grow them far too big. I am unsure of what seeds or clones you may have but It might be an idea to chop the vegging plants and lean over the larger ones and flower them all out then in 3 weeks time you could start some more growing.

That is just my opinion and in no way saying that you are ā€˜doing it wrongā€™.

I did a bit of google-ing and found nothing really on your white spots but there are heaps of cluey guys and girls here and I am almost positive someone with have the answer.

1 Like
19

This was my thought, red scabs and those leaf markings to me said either an infestation of some insect or some disease. The description reminded me of the red blobs some trees have around these parts. If there are no visible critters is says your plants have caught something, which would also explain why cuttings will not take.

1 Like
20

the only reason you should have a 4ft veg plant is for a mom. Way to big to flower. if you have a total of 6.5ft you need to,

  1. determine how close the plants can get to the light. lets say 18" or 1.5 feet.
  2. determine the height of the buckets. lets say 12" or 1 foot.
  3. Imagine plant stretch will be 2 times the height after flip

so 6.5ft -1.5ft = 5ft.

5ft -1ft for bucket = 4ft of total grow space

plant will stretch double so 4ft divided by 2 = 2ft max height for plant at 12/12. (this is assuming 1.5ft from the light. )

also, you say the medium retains water, you need to add perlite or something to retain air and allow good drainage.

5 Likes