Prevent Growenviroment to influence Selction

I have a theory on how to do this with at least a humane budget (because there are much, much more expensive methods).

I take an original, untouched landrace and compare two things:

  1. I let the original tropical landrace grow for one generation in my non-authentic environment (e.g., in California). During this process, I select different phenotypes and take notes on them—e.g., I select the tropical phenotype, also the indica-type phenotype, the one with large roots, etc.
  2. I keep all the F1 phenotypes separately bagged (e.g., tropical pheno separately), and in the next season, I grow the tropical phenotype again in my non-authentic environment, side by side with the filial generation.

If I do this in California, the tropical F1 pheno will probably struggle a lot—because it has even less cold tolerance than the tropical phenos of the filial generation, which I now grow side by side.

So that means, for every phenotype I selected, I will see whether it will struggle more—for example, the tropical pheno will struggle more in California because it gets cold, because it hits a hard limit.

The idea is: if you move a Thai variety slightly within Thailand (e.g., to southern China), it will only struggle slightly in all aspects, because it still feels pretty “at home” there. So moving it in any direction would only cause minor changes and mild stress.

Vice versa, if you expose it to a very different environmental factor (e.g., cold), that phenotype will struggle much more severely.

So, if you’ve noted the degree of abrupt decline (ideally 2–3 plants per pheno), you’ll know that whenever you select toward that phenotype, you’ll get such-and-such crappy phenos.

From this, you can conclude whether the environment, the selection, or the phenotype is to blame.

Unfortunately, that still doesn’t tell us whether we should keep the phenotype or not…

That changes once we create a second grow environment where we change as many parameters (temperature, soil, light) as possible.

Because then, if the F1 phenotype is bad, it will perform poorly in all environments. But if the environment was the problem, the second environment will show that in one place the F1 develops poorly, and in the other it doesn’t—meaning the pheno is, in principle, okay.

So in the environment where the F1 pheno grows well, we can directly select the best specimens and continue working with them.

That’s my technique.
This way, we bypass the limitations of an environment that would suddenly cause certain phenotypes to weaken, and it’s almost as if we’re still selecting in Thailand.

Again, the difference in the degree of decline from the F1 to the filial generation indicates that the environment might be to blame (if you see a sudden increase in weakness in one particular environment).

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Hey i know its very nerdy what i write.

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Well, you express your thoughts well and you’re writing style is fluid and easy to follow.

Ideally you would have a field or two to work with and a large sack of seed but ‘ideally’ seldom happens and we are forced to make due with what we have available.

I think what you have outlined is the heart of the matter.
Other options might be outcrossing to rudalis but that’s been done a hundred times (I’m not a fan of that).

Depending what terroir you want to adapt to and the strain you are working with will probably dictate the final plan.

If you decide to go forward with this I’d follow along to ‘watch the action’. :+1:

Cheers
G

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Yes I feel it’s the “life or death” scenarios that activate or allows for genetic swings or changes , adaptation for survival

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I definitely think the environment is how most living creatures end up expressing their genetics.

However, you could move a “Thailand,” strain to the US, and find the same exact microclimate as the one it was sourced from…we just cant grow outdoors like that…and training a sativa that can handle 85% humidity + in a tent is going to be an enormous task that i dont think is feasible to look at a large enough subset of the population just based on size/numbers

Im steadily collecting for that day though when the Deep South USA goes legal :slight_smile:

I always get slightly confused and heirloom vs landrace though, because i think technically once you move a strain from its source, its always a heirloom

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some kinda nerdy theory on environmental adaptation creating genetic change? is that what i’m understanding here? not gonna grow this inside, i would guess. i’m sure it’s been tried w/lots of diff plants, like say avocado, nanners, cane sugar, maybe? hellifino. how big a sample size will be used, 10 plants, 100? an acre?

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I grew over 4 thousand plants from seed, outdoors in the PNW. A legal rec operation. Only half a dozen plants were equipped with the right genetics to grow in this climate. The other 99% were genetics that were created outdoors in California.

I think hybridizing landraces with strains that are adapted to your region is a pretty solid approach. The Thai hybrids could be selectively bred so that by F4 its mostly Thai genotypes.

Trying to adapt a pure Thai landrace to California might take longer. If you have the time, do it. :sunglasses:

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Cool , ok so the question is how long Did it take for you to notice adaptive change? change in terps, buzz and or growth patterns? Flowering times and over structure is no big deal but terp profile and buzz are the main concern

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I noticed a significant difference in the F3 generation. The SFV OG in particular, developed a more fluffy structure in order to adapt to this climate. I remember the original had really dense flowers. Even growing it indoors doesn’t seem to produce dense flowers. So its safe to say that it has adapted a bit.

I cant say much about the terps or buzz. I dont smoke everything I grow. LOL
Im more focused on selecting the plants that perform well outdoors. Mother nature is brutal out here.

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Yes she is, I lived in Aberdeen and Bellingham for a few years it rains 9 months out the year

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This is just a theory. I have no practical experience in selecting.

What would you people say influences the appearance of the plants the most? I think the most important thing is cold, of course, then comes light intensity. Is that correct?

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interesting, you still have pictures of the F3 and the filial generation

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I have pictures of the last few F3 plants. I also kept two F3 mothers.

Ai response below :point_down:

Cannabis plant phenotypes can be influenced by various factors, including:

  1. Genetics: The genetic makeup of the plant determines its potential traits.
  2. Environment: Temperature, light, water, nutrients, and humidity can impact plant growth and development.
  3. Nutrients: Availability and balance of essential nutrients like NPK, micronutrients, and pH levels.
  4. Climate: Temperature fluctuations, light intensity, and duration.
  5. Soil quality: pH, nutrient content, and microbial activity.
  6. Pruning and training: Techniques like topping, pruning, and trellising.
  7. Stress: Environmental stressors like pests, diseases, or nutrient deficiencies.
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For the most part, I try to use the same nutes, lights, temps, soil for every grow. I do this to keep as many variables as constant as possible. Once I get my genetics preservation projects completed, I may tinker with one variable at a time and see what new traits are expressed

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I’ve noticed that one of my purple phenos is much darker indoors. When I grew it in the greenhouse, cold temps in fall didn’t really do anything to darken the flower. Not sure why the LED full spectrum has this effect on the flower, or if its specific to certain strains.

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Named appropriate then the original Aberdeen isn’t much better lol

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I think it’s the extra blast of direct light that brings out the extra anthocyanin production indoors added with cooler temps as plants do produce it for stress in general as well as in response colder temps

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This is similar to what I thought.
You simply let the plants grow in multiple environments and thereby achieve a neutral environment, so to speak. But in my case, there is also the comparison to Filial generation.

The abruptness of a change would indicate that a strong limit has been reached (environmental factor too harsh).
Combined with the fact that an environmental change does not occur in every of the multiple environments, you get a pretty clear picture.

And on top of that, if an abrupt change occurs in a tropical phenotype, it can give you an indication that you may still have environments that are too cold, and you could perhaps create additional a warmer environment in the next season to achieve a truly neutral selection.
If an abrupt change occurs in an Indica cannabis phenotype, you might need to create an environment with less intense light.
If the abrupt change occurs in a phenotype with thick roots, you might need to create an environment with different soil.

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If i count the Plants in this Example in Season 1 and two i would use the saem amount of Space probably, and i count 64 Plants in Season 2. In season 1 One could run fewer Plants theoretically.

In Season 2 i would atleast need 3 Phenos (plus Controlgroup) to bring analytical advantage i would say… And of each pheno i need to grow atleast 4 Plants so i can see the Tenedency otherwise i would be tricked by coexidental heterogene Expression , and make wrong conclusions.

So: yeah , 64 Plants in Season 2 and Season 1 probably 20 Plants atleast.
thats a minimal Setup, i would rather divide into more Phenos (5 Phenos) to have clearer results

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Interesting makes me wonder if this is where my Old Toby caramel toffee pheno came about :face_with_monocle::thinking:

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