So I am relatively new to breeding and I have looked places for this answer but have not found much. When you cross two strains I was told the f1 50 percent would be a cross like 50/50 mom dad gentics and the 25 percent would be heavy on dad and 25 percent would be heavy on moms side. Is there any truth to this. Also because I was told in the project I am trying to do of preservation of these fems I have. That if I put my f1 male of farmers wedding strain I made to them I would get offspring like I said 25 percent mom genetics and 25 percent dad. So there for I could breed out the ones I want to preserve and bring it close to the mother genetics sense working with fems through back breeding and cubing of the gentics I am trying to keep. Does this seem viable or if anyone would have some solid advice on preserving keeper fems sense I don’t have males of them. I know long run I could cube them by putting a male not related to them to them then hunt offspring of that for male closest and breed it back to the clone of the mother keeper and keep doing that for generations till I get males that are in the 90 percent range of the mom genetics and then should be able to breed true regs?
Make more fems with STS (silver thiosulfate). Thats the quickest way.
There is no reliable mom/dad genetic ratio. Genetics always get scrambled up when you cross different strains. The only thing that you can count on, is that you will spot close copies of the mother plant, or something way better.
You will need to pop a lot of seeds, until you find a nice copy of the mother plant. Selecting a male that has a similar genetic code as the mother, will be a long process of trial and error. Even if the male looks identical to the mother plant, the flower genotypes cannot be known until you test the progeny that was produced by that male.
“In plant breeding, the phenotype (physical appearance) of a plant doesn’t always reveal its genotype (genetic makeup). This is especially true for traits like flower characteristics, which can be influenced by multiple genes. To determine the genotype of the male plant’s flowers, you’d need to analyze the progeny (offspring) resulting from a cross with a known female plant. This process helps breeders understand the genetic traits being passed on and make informed decisions for future breeding programs.”
It’s a very messy vulgarization and an attempt to simplify the mendel’s law in an absolute way. So no truth to aim, but there is a part of truth somehow ^^
First, you’re talking about F1s. So the heterosis have to be counted as a dominant factor for the “blend”, before considering the lines used.
It’s a first dominance to “map” and to know, how react the lines in simple hybridism (chunking blindfolded) then in polyhybridism (with a selection on multiple traits : the usual potency-terps-floral by example. Find any skunk, even random, best type of lines for such test ^^
Then you have the sexual prevalence to map too. It’s very simple : make the cross in both ways, in using each line as pollen donor. Choose your favorite pollen influence (reversal or not).
The % are fucked, they are not reliable at all and will change with the type of pairing you’re doing. Actually the truth is that you have to decypher these % yourself at each round, based on your previous notations. Even on a two digits IBL.
Damn here we go, i’m forced to switch in douchebag-mode again.
Your sentence is contradictory, buying fems to use them genetically is what have put the overall grade down to hell since a couple of decades. It’s a dead end but next gen growers prefer to imagine crazy stuffs instead realizing that it’s like cats and dogs. If you open your line for 30 years with fucked specimens … even with all efforts of the world, you will get the DNA disease you ignored because “you’re stronger than a god” ^^ End of the red pills. Since 2016 here, i met a couple of dozens of good breeders with trash catalogs, unable to work at next level just for this. Even in the autos game ^^
Cubing is a fairy tale that continue to please stoners because most of them will never go this far to realize that it’s a pure bullshitting ^^ You have no limit in a BX but the resistance of the initial genetic to the process, the choice of the recessive outcross is drastic too. even more important than the selection planned.
So first, find the perfect candidate to outcross this fem. You’re already in difficult ground, starting a lot lower than others on the same kind of project. So don’t be pussy in the “overkill” dept. imho you have better to investigate on the making of, of the “mother” you’re talking about, then trying the combo yourself with decent sources (if not the cut itself).
Option 1 : Reintroducing males in the genotype. The choice of the outcross is critical, and the truth is that it take years to do this properly lol
Option 2 : Not reintroducing males and being a bit trapped on the initial standard ^^
Option 3 : Finding a far better starting point with a hint of “strains science”.
You don’t realize the time and the bloody screening you will need to do in writing this.
No, the males will not reach a DNA at 90% close to the cut of reference.
With some ultra recessive cut it’s even the reverse each round, you lost a good part per generation that you have to counter-act with smart selections at least for 3 or 4 generations. It’s less absolute and automatic that the comfy fairy tale of the cubing let think with canna ^^
To go beyond these generic reminders, you have to talk genetic and lines buddy. It’s the only way to be sharp and get rid of these fems that are ruining your potential.
Hey man i appreciate it. I understand that it’s a lot of work and will take multiple different paths to even come close to the mother genetics. I had a feeling it was more then treat when it comes to the percentages. I been growing for 18 years this fall and it has been my life long passion to get in to breeding. I truly have an undying love for the plant and quest for knowledge on every aspect of it. I had a feeling the dude that was telling me that was blowing smoke so I figured I would ask on here. I am pretty sure he just chucks pollen and that’s absolutely not what I am looking to do at all. It’s hard be my circle is small and I kept it that way till recently. So guess I am just looking to find some people to chat about breeding and preservation because I want to do it properly. Because I really do love this plant.
100% agree 
I suggested making more fem seeds, because its the quickest way to preserve the genetics without scrambling them up.
Also, breeding with fem seeds is a great way to learn how to spot hermaphrodites and unhealthy mutants. 
Its kind of like buying your first used car. You learn how to care for a vehicle, and eventually replace it with a nice car.
Op, your next breeding project should start with reg photo plants. Dont use fems. 
I definitely appreciate the brutal honesty. I am willing to put in the work to properly do it. I don’t mind hunting generations and taking notes. I just know in 18 years growing I have lost so may amazing strains. I consider cannabis growing and breeding my magnus opus. My great life’s work. Like I said in the other reply I am pretty sure the guy who told me that just chucks pollen and I am not trying to do that at all. Up until recently I haven’t really talked to anyone about growing or breeding because I just kept my circle tight and I am now looking for people to talk to about breeding and doing it right. I have the cannabis breeders bible and am looking to get marijuana botany because I hear that’s a solid start. I have also watched a lot of breeder interviews and podcast. But I feel like it will all just come from me doing the work and bouncing ideas of others who know what they are doing and I don’t mind putting in the work and pheno hunting.
Yeah I have sts spray so I was planning on selfing them to start and go that route. I just know that even those s1 can be super diverse. But correct me if I am wrong I can always hunt the s1 for the closet to the mother or better then cross that again and take it to another generation to work on some what stabilizing it. I have a shit ton of regular seeds that I have gathered over the years and have also made. I just get sad about fems because Ik they are already a losing battle and I have had some genuine amazing keeper but have lost them and really don’t want to go through that anymore it kind hurts me ever time I do because I feel like I’ll never find anything like it again even from the same seed stock. So I am trying to prevent that from happening.
You can hunt for a keeper in the S1, and then start your F1 project with that plant.
One thing I suggest, is that you stress test the plants you will breed with. A simple light test is a good way to find out if the male is stable or not. An unstable male will herm under light stress. I usually keep the male in a small container, in my living room. There it is exposed to sporadic lighting during flower. If it doesn’t herm, its stable.
Below is an example pic of a herm male. Sometimes they will throw a single pistil. Its easy to miss.
Thank you I will definitely stress test them. Like I said I want to do this properly not trying to half ass anything. I have one strain I made and I am genuinely pleased with it it’s wedding cake x citrus farmer I call it farmers wedding. She’s the only one I got so far that I am happy with i put the purple pheno male of that to my whole garden last year and still have to hunt. These are some pictures of the farmers wedding. Alsways has vigor and is a solid grower. Bud broad leaves the terps are generally between a pine, lemon, cream, hashy, vanilla, the purple pheno is. Strange one with with a grape soda citrus, creamy vanilla, hashy Insens,
That looks great! You just reminded me of a strain I once grew called Cherry Soda. Im not sure if its still around, but it was a phenomenal plant. I got clones from a dispensary back in 2013
Again thank you for the information and the picture of a herm male I have yet to see one in my life. I am on the spectrum so I ask a lot of questions and i definitely get way to deep in to research on this beautiful plant and some times mix things up. I drive my wife insane lol because when I have free time it’s all I read and look up and talk about. Like I said I don’t want to dive in to this project on the wrong start so figured I would ask. I definitely appreciate your answers and I will be taking your advice on this. I feel like I should have came to this group sooner with the question I just get nervous asking people things lol.
Check this out, if you haven’t already.
Yeah so i grew for many years and wanted to study the science of growing and understand it fully before i ever did breeding. How this strain came about i actually gave my mom the wedding cake in 2020 she did and our doors and my friend gave her the citrus farmer. Well the citrus farmer was a male and she didn’t catch it so at the end of the year she had a 8ft wedding cake bush packed with seeds and she gave them to me because she knew I wanted to breed it was the best accident to ever happen it sparked my wanting to breed again and I felt like it was the right time after that. Yeah I love grape flavored strains. That cherry soda sounds good though. Would love to get my hands on some true grape stomper I hear it smells and tastes like Welch’s Concord grape juice.
We’re all here to help each other out. I recommend digging through some of the old threads. There is a lot of information here on OG
I appreciate that Ik last year I asked how long a male throws pollen for with the breeding project I was doing. They were more than helpful and it was a success I got. Bunch of f1 crosses of my farmers wedding purple male to all the other strains.
I definitely will thank you
If you still have a lof of those reg seeds, you can trade them to get other genetics that would be helpful for your breeding project.
We love trading seeds here on OG 
I have a few I am holding on to the farmers wedding f1s. Incase I ever need to go back to them. But I have 3 crosses I made with it.
Vivid citrus cakes
Blue dream Santa Cruz cut / magenta hashplant x farmers wedding purple pheno male
Blue dream Santa Cruz cut / magenta hash plant= super colorful vigorous grower very decent yields Sativa hybrid. Terpene profile is berry citrus, incense, skunky super greasy
Farmers wedding purple pheno= wedding cake x citrus farmer male. The purple pheno generally turns dark purple and finishes almost black. Vigorous grower with big broad leaves an absolute trichome pusher of a plant. Terpene profile is grape soda, citrus, vanilla hash, creamy.
Vivid citrus cakes Expect a plant that will finish around the 9 to 10 week possibly sooner. Should be a decent balance of mother and father or leaning heavy to one or the other. Vigorous growth, solid yields and blend of Colors.
Tractor Fuel
Sour diesel haze x farmers wedding purple pheno male.
Sour diesel haze= sour diesel x heirloom Dutch haze. Terpene profile is heavy fuel, gas, kerosene, citrus with occasionally under tones of root beer. Great for anxiety and depression, energetic, creative.
Farmers wedding purple pheno= wedding cake x citrus farmer male. The purple pheno generally turns dark purple and finishes almost black. Vigorous grower with big broad leaves an absolute trichome pusher of a plant. Terpene profile is grape soda, citrus, vanilla hash, creamy.
Tractor fuel Expect a plant that will finish around the 9 to 10 week possibly sooner. Should be a decent balance of mother and father or leaning heavy to one or the other. Vigorous growth, solid yields.
Train station wedding
Arcata trainwreck x farmers wedding purple pheno male.
Arcata trainwreck= stout heavy yielder with potent resinous buds. Sativa dominant hybrid. Terpene profile heavy lemon chemical like with an organic fuel dirt kinda smell like og, Skunky. Great for pain and nausea and migraines.
Farmers wedding purple pheno= wedding cake x citrus farmer male. The purple pheno generally turns dark purple and finishes almost black. Vigorous grower with big broad leaves an absolute trichome pusher of a plant. Terpene profile is grape soda, citrus, vanilla hash, creamy.
Train station wedding Expect a plant that will finish around the 9 to 10 week possibly sooner. Should be a decent balance of mother and father or leaning heavy to one or the other. Vigorous growth, solid yields.
I am always down for more gentics. I have an extensive seed collection now but I always love to add more lol. I made more crosses then those 3 but limited seeds on those one. I have the farmers wedding purple male also put to. Pineapple skunk, afghan skunk, nothern lights, a Kandahar landrace x royal afghan, also a CSI purple urkle. But like I said those seeds were way to limited to put them out they are mainly going to be used for future projects of stabilizing those crosses.
They all sound excellent 
We would love to see some of them grown out. Start a grow journal for each of your hybrids. The trainwreck one definitely peaks my interest.
A classic Trainwreck is on my list of genetics that I want for my stash. I enjoyed smoking it back in the day.