Three types of hydro in a small tent on one airpump?

Oh, one other thing that seems odd to me - all 5 clones have a bunch of 3 finger leaves and several 5 finger leaves and the rest 7 finger leaves. Several of the fan leaves are also getting HUGE. None of that seem necessarily bad, but interesting. I have no clue if the odd numbers of fingers is due to the neem nuclear waste treatment thing or what?

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Another up-date.

Im leaving for a 5 day fishing trip in the morning, so tonight is the last servicing/checking they will get for 5 days. Im hoping I have everything running smoothly enough to last that long. My fingers are crossed!!

The PH and EC are both pretty stable with only a slow climb over time as the water level drops. From what I have read, that indicates that I am a little hi on nute concentration, but the plants look happy. Im just adding tap water when I top off the rez and then dropping the PH back down to where I want it. The airlift pump and auto siphon are working great and there are no issues with the mechanics or functioning of the system.

Progress so far:
The E/F clone is still winning the race. It is the tallest by a small margin and the bushiest by far. But, the other two are catching up slowly. All look very happy and have good color.

The E/F and Membrane clones have both grown 2” in the last 4 days, but the NFT has grown 2.5”. I am measuring to the tallest node point rather than the tips of the leaves. They go up/down too much to measure accurately.

E/F is 10 1/4” = bushiest
NFT is 10 1/8” least bushy, but growing the fastest.
Membrane 9 ¼” in the middle

They were looking a bit pale and un-even in color last week, but are much better now. I was keeping the PH in the 6.0-6.4 range. Now Im keeping it between 5.5 and 5.8 and they seem much happier and have better color. I also added extra CalMag and that seemed to help too. The stems had been on the purple side, but now the new growth is not showing purple any more.
The roots are still a concern. Over all root growth in the NFT and Membrane totes is far below what I was expecting. They still seem reluctant to grow into the fabric. Im also seeing browning of the roots in both totes above the “water line”.
The fabric/batting I bought doesn’t seem to wick very well. That added to my use of deep totes means the roots that poke out of the pipes and are hanging in the air are drying out. The roots that are further down look great – other than being smaller than hoped for.

I really should have used shorter totes/containers to the roots didn’t have so far to go to the water. That distance seems to be fine in a DWC or aero type setup where they are constantly being sprayed with water, but not with my setup.
I decided to stop top feeding today. They wont be getting any top feeding while Im gone, so may as well see how it goes. I hope the roots that dry out are not too big an issue. The ones that are drying out seem to stop growing, but the others are doing fine.

I will know in 5 days!

Some pics - finally :slight_smile:

What they looked like 5 days ago.

Last night.

Roots

E/F

NFT

Membrane

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Im back after a 5 day fishing trip (dont ask how it went) with an up-date.

For starters, I am very happy with how things went while I was gone, and feeling a just bit cocky about how well my first time hydro experiment thing is going - BUT - I am also feeling kind of humbled and put in my place at the same time.

Turns out my plants grow better when Im not even around!!!

That darn LITFA crap sure works good for the plants but its hard on the ego!!! :smiley:

Details:

  1. They didnt die! In fact, they are doing great!

  2. Every thing in the hydro system is still functioning perfectly. The water level is down lower than I was anticipating, but still just fine. Looks like they used about 9 gals while I was gone. They could have gone another two days or a bit more before the water got too low to pump properly, so now I know. I will have some detailed questions later on how my PH. EC etc are doing, but I think its close enough for now.

  3. The two extra clones in my hempy buckets are looking very very thirsty, and droopy, and they didnt grow nearly as much, but they survived too. I hate to toss them out, so Im going to try to re-veg them and see if they survive. By re-veg, I mean Im going to just stick them in my bathroom and feed them once in a while when I remember. If they survive that, maybe I will have them for future clones - if they can make it trough the summer with almost no care :slight_smile:

The race results so far:

1 - The E/F tote is still winning. They are all still very similar in height (17", 17", 16.5") but the E/F clone is much wider and bushier.

2 and #3 - The NFT clone and Membrane clones are more or less tied. The NFT is a 1/2" taller but the Membrane clone is bushier by a bit and a little wider. There is not enough difference to call it either way.

The roots in the NFT and Membrane are not doing nearly as well as I had hoped. They continue to grow but slowly. They also do NOT like the fabric I chose fro some reason. They are willing to grow through it or over it or under it, but not IN it the way I was expecting. Also, the roots still up in the air are turning brown since I stopped top feeding, while the roots down close to the water level are looking great.

Ive been debating if I should start top feeding again, but that would just kill any value the experiment might still have as far as which works better. On the other hand, I consider this experiment a bust anyway because of my not thinking th design through better. I think Im going to leave it as is for now and not top feed any more.

This is how they looked 2 weeks ago:

This is one week ago - the night I left.

One week later - this morning.

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Quick question - It’s been 10 days since I switched over to 12/12.

Is it too late to still do a scrog screen and some LST type training? I am worried these ‘babies’ are turning into monsters that are going to grow up and eat my lights and then come for me.

I put the screen in place, but I can take it out if need be. If nothing else, I will probably leave it for support. This sativa dominant strain is supposed to grow very tall and I have a short tent. They started off sloooooow, but it looks like the brakes are off now.

Any advice or suggestions welcome.

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It’s never too late to do low stress training (LST) though its tougher to bend thicker, older, woodie stems.

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Whew! Good news. You’re right about the tougher bending. I did most of my scrog and LST training on my first soil grow when they were thirsty. The stems seem a lot more flexible when they need a drink. Being in hydro, the are never thirsty, so they are always strong! Takes more time to do it gently.

Thank you sir!!

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I was looking at the roots this morning. Here are some pics of the roots - Membrane first, then NFT.

.

It doesnt look like a lot of roots to me. Plus there is a lot of brown where they are up in the air.

It occurred to me that maybe this experiment isnt all for nothing after all. The plants in all three totes have great color, huge fan leaves, are super bushy and - finally - are growing like weeds.

The E/F plant is doing the best, but it got its roots in the water the soonest. I think that if I had not had the other two plants so far above the water level in the beginning, that they would be doing just as well as the E/F plant.

Here is the interesting thing to me.

The NFT plant has roots that stay very wet. They are growing in sopping wet fabric and have lots of excess water.

However, the Membrane plant is doing just as well even though its roots are barely damp. When I touch the fabric in the bottom of the NFT tote it is dripping like a sponge full of water. The fabric on the bottom of the Membrane tote feels almost dry - and yet that plant is doing great.

So I have one plant getting flooded and its doing the best - but not by much.

Then one plant that gets lots of water and is doing great and one that gets very little water and it is also doing great.

Im starting to think it doesnt make any difference how much water they get as long as it is some minimum amount - which isnt very much at all from what I can see.

The better test of course, will be to see how the yields turn out. About 5 or 6 more weeks to go…

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I just checked the roots again when the lights came on a while ago. Im running the lights ON during the night time to help with the hi heat issues.

Anyway, I just noticed that there is at least two or three times as much root mass in the Membrane tote than in the NFT tote. The roots in the Membrane tote also seem to be more willing to grow in and through the fabric than they are in the NFT tote. Im using the same exact fabric in both totes, so this is a bit of a mystery.

This is another plus for the Membrane technique. That tote was the last one to show roots down at the water level and yet it is doing much better than the NFT tote by far as far as root growth.

On the other hand, both plants still look pretty much equal as far as size and growth.

I cant see how the roots are doing in the E/F tote, but they have made it into the auto siphon. I am now realizing I didnt leave quite enough room to get in there to clean them out easily. Another lesson learned for next time :slight_smile:

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Makes sense, roots love oxygen.

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Yeah, and it seems like “less is more” as far as how much water you need.

Still, the NFT tote has just as much “air surface area” for the roots and both have the same fabric lining the bottom for the roots to grow in.

The only difference is between saturated fabric and barely damp fabric. Barely damp seems to be the prefferred option for the roots.

I have been assuming all along that a larger root mass would mean a larger, more vigorous plant with better yields. So far, the “larger plant” part doesnt seem to be all that true. The differences in growth are not that great compared to the differences in the root mass.

However - here is another (possible) plus point for the Membrane technique that I just noticed last night. The plants are starting to show white whiskers and forming buds. The new buds are larger and have more and longer whiskers on the Membrane plant. The NFT plant is second and the E/F plant is in last place.

Here are the pics of a typical bud site on each one - E/F first, then NFT, then Membrane.

E/F

NFT

Membrane

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Quick up-date. The lights just came on and the Membrane plant is still winning the bud wars - by a lot.

The Membrane plant now has buds that are starting to look like small buds. They are almost twice the size of the NFT buds and much more nugget looking. The E/F plant is still in last place on bud formation.

Curiouser and curiouser…

Other than that, all three look about equal. Its hard to judge relative growth any more - I started weaving them all into a scrog screen, so no more height/width comparisons.

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I would have put my money on the E&F, glad to see the membrane is taking off. It’s a unique technique that seems to be paying off. On with the show! :popcorn: :movie_camera:

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Based on my reading, this was what I was more or less thinking/hoping might happen IF all the hype about the Membrane technique was real.

Its interesting to me - and SO typical of almost all things related to growing pot - that the opinions people have about what is the “best” hydro growing technique vary so much.

On the one side you have DWC, RDWC, waterfarm, etc guys who swear they are the best - and have great pics and yields to prove it. So, lots of water = best.

On the other hand are all the guys who swear by aeroponics/fogponics/NFT, etc. - and they also have pics and stats to prove they are the best. So, a lot less water = best.

The E/F guys fall in the middle somewhere - and THEY are also the best, so middle of the road water = best.

The Membrane technique claims dam near zero water = best - and its looking good so far.

I was actually betting on the NFT plant to win, but it has surprised me in a negative way. I dont know for sure, but I think part of the problem seems to be the batting fabric I picked to use as a bedding. For some reason the roots just dont like it when its saturated. Oddly, that same exact fabric is working much better in the Membrane tote where its just barely damp.

Its interesting to me that the E/F was so far ahead on growth and root development and yet is so far behind on bud development.

Im really curious to see how things work out over time and if these trends continue.

If the membrane technique really does do better than the others - even with the handcaps I caused, then I will probably try it full bore on my next grow. Its a lot more trouble to setup initially, but not all that much. Especially since I already have all the materials I will need. We will have to see how the yields turn out.

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Another minor up-date - no big changes and zero problems.

The Membrane plant continues to have the most roots and the largest buds. The E/F plant is still in last place as far as bud size, but its catching up. The NFT plant is still in second place.

All three look to be roughly the same over all size and all have great color.

The scrog screen is starting to fill up nicely, but its been a bit of a challenge working with these babies. Turns out its harder to fill a screen with fewer plants at the start. Plus, they are growing much faster and with much longer branches than my last, mostly indica, grow.

The E/F is on the far left, NFT in the center, Membrane on the right side. Some of the branches from the the Membrane plant on the right side stretch almost to the center of the E/F plant and vice versa. The NFT in the center has branches going to the far right and left. The smaller/shorter branches are starting to work their way up to the screen now too. Other than some trimming, Im going to just let them stretch for a few days and see how it goes.

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Really great job! i cant wait to see the finish. I Hope that the membrain plant will absolutly kick ass to the other two :smiley: It would be really great if you would make some guide how to build this membraine technique in like 1x1m space for 4 big plants or nine smaller :slight_smile: I might want to try it! :muscle:

Keep growing! :muscle:

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Thanks!

All the technical details of the Membrane technique are linked in the first few posts of this thread. Some where further down I posted pics of how I built this tote.

However, I would recommend you NOT follow my plan exactly :slight_smile:

The main thing I will change when/if I do this technique again is the over all depth of the tote or container. Next time it will be much shorter. I will also switch over to rock wool instead of perlite for a rooting medium. I made these totes too tall and the roots needed to grow through too much perlite to get down to the membrane. That is making for a lot of very brown roots hi up out of the membrane level in that tote. It also delayed the start of good root growth unnecessarily.

If I do this again, I will find or build a container around 3" or so deep. Then I will fill the bottom (the Nutrient supply zone as he calls it) with perlite to a level high enough so that the tops of the rock wool cubes are just even with the top of the container when the rock wool is sitting on top of the perlite. The exact depth will depend on the size of the rock wool cubes I can get locally.

The other big change I did from his design is the flow rate of the nutes through the Nutrient supply zone/perlite. I am running the nutes through at a much faster rate than he does, and recirculating them through my rez. He does a very very very slooooow drip in his system and then drains to waste. The drip is just barely fast enough to keep up with what the plants drink, so there is very little runoff with his setup. Thats too much trouble for me :slight_smile:

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Well crap. I jinxed myself by saying I had zero problems!!

My EC/PH meter took a dump this morning and I had to mail it off for warranty repair today. Its likely to be at least a 1 week turn around, so no meter for the next week at least. I can test PH with drops and get close enough I think. Im not that worried about the EC. I finally got it to a good point I think, so all I should need to do is add more at the mix ratio Im using now - I hope. The system went 5 days with no problem, so I think I will be ok.

The second problem is that the roots have managed to get through the silk screen Im using to protect the drain line in the NFT tote. I need to peal back the fabric for a better look later, bit I dont think they are growing through the silk screen. I think they have found a break/opening somewhere along the line where I sealed it to the tote sides/bottom.

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Oh oh! I was checking the roots tonight and found this crap growing on a couple of the roots in the Membrane tote. I snipped off all I could find and gave the rez an additional dose of Hydro Guard.

Any idea what this stuff is? Looks like some kind of mold to me.

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Oh - I plucked out all of it I could find and added some extra Hydro Guard to the rez and put some directly in the Membrane tote.

Fingers crossed…

That looks nasty! If you figure out what it is i would like to know. I hope it isn’t too invasive.