Tony Green’s Triangle Glue Auto

Breeder's Lab
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First, a little background.
About six weeks ago I started 10 Tony Green‘s triangle glue auto regular seeds. My intention was to gather pollen, make a bunch more regular seeds and eventually cross them to other autos.

My assumption was that the line would be stable as Tony has worked it for a while. However, even during veg I was seeing a couple phenos as far as some being much more Indica and some being slightly more sativa. Not really an issue, maybe I’ll work some Indica and some sativa, but I expected more consistency. The terps are not all strong enough to compare smells yet
and obviously I’m a long way from being able to sample any.

I ended up with six females, three males and one plant that still refused to show sex either way after 6 weeks. I expect that single plant was a photo, so I culled it last night as I have enough photos and this is an auto breeding program.

The worst thing is that last night, just as I was about to pollinate them,I found a single pollen sack growing way down near the base of one of the plants. I inspected the rest closely and seems to be the only one.

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I know Mr. Green has a stellar reputation so I was very surprised to find a hermie.
I’m just wondering is this a strain specific issue that anyone else has had a similar experience with?

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Ruderalis happens brotha.

Castrate the bitch and see if she behaves.
Thats what I do!
:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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I know a lot of growers will do that, but I already culled the plant. It was only one pollen sack, but I can’t spend the next month having to inspect for more. Seeing as I’m trying to breed, I can’t have any Hermies pollinating my girls,… I just can’t risk it.

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It’s TK and GG4 in there, so it’s probably best to expect some intersex traits…

I don’t think it’s worked any more than typical autos and it was likely done with multiple plants, so there will be variety…

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I am not a breeder, but I’ve already had a couple of unexpected photoperiods show-up in various grows of autoflowers. It is just the nature of the game.

Anyhow, the chance of a seed being an autoflower increases with each generation. Here is a table that I found online:

1st cross = 0% auto
2nd cross = 25% auto
3rd cross = 86% auto
4th cross = 96% auto

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You’ve got some high expectations for autoflowers homie! Ruderalis fucked up genetics, feminized junk in between, plus notorious hermers tk and gg?

autoflowers are pitched as great beginner plants, but in my opinion they are too finicky. i’m three generations into my own autoregs but it’s more of a pet project than anything.

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Thanks, good points and new info for me.
I wasn’t aware of the TK herms but I’m fully aware of GG 4 and its tendency to herm. Had some gg4 from exotic genetics that hermed 4 out of 5 plants.
I thought these were at least F4, so expected more consistency.

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I guess ultimately it comes down to the breeder and what kind of stable genetics they are putting out, or not.
I don’t believe there’s anything wrong with auto’s in general, because this is the first auto I’ve had herm, and I’ve grown quite a few over the years.
Also, I don’t believe there’s anything wrong with feminized in general, I really think it’s down to the genetics. I’ve had a few feminized Herm and a few regulars Herm, always the ones you’d expect like diesel or cookie crosses and most recently the GG 4. Had I known the TK was also herm prone I would’ve selected something else.

You’re not wrong that I had high expectations, from what I read Tony Green did work the line for a while. The different Phenos were not an issue but I was surprised to find a herm.

Mind sharing the auto lines you’re working with?

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TK doesn’t herm generally, but many closely related plants have a tendency… it’s certainly in the genes.

Also, TK wasn’t used, it’s a “TK” type auto that was used that Twenty20 puts out.

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Auto are easy to hate on, especially if you tend to screw up things at some point in veg. I love them and some of the heat grows I’ve ever had have been autos. A good auto in a 5 gallon hydro bucket is a sight to behold if you know what you’re doing. Properly done and with a good plant you’re not going to system from a photo. I’ve been wanting to grab some of @Tonygreen autos, but I have so many of his and other folks beans and I can’t even test all my stuff. I’ll get at least the GG at some point.

I have many autos I’ve been working for years. I’m happy to share some. They’re based on blueberry, Z, and amnesia. I have a repopulation of straight blueberry regs that I’d love to see some other folks grow if anyone is interested. The auto donors are Blueberry dating back to some breeder circa 2010 Breedbay and @Alaskagrown I’ve never had more fun than sorting through 100+ of them as the kickoff to my auto breeding. One of the girls was probably the best blueberry I’ve ever had. It clogged joints like nothing I’ve ever had and tasted like blueberry and curry and made me want to make art all might. I hold few is allegedly the old 80’s original blueberry saty leaning cut, aka the juice cut and other names… I like growing the autos way better! I hold the cut because of nostalgia and breeding. It’s great when you dial it in and run it, but it’s the biggest pain in the ass cut to hold…

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Looling great brotha

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Hello Tonygreen,
Are you able to verify if one out of six females having a slight herm is fairly standard or to be expected with this particular strain?

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Well I have to say I am completely disappointed with this thread and the responses I received.

Someone tells me TK is known to herm, then I’m told TK doesn’t herm, then I’m told TK wasn’t even used in the mix???

What’s most disappointing and just seems downright rude, is the breeder shows up on the thread only to compliment someone else’s pictures of males rather than addressing the issue or answering the question about the rate of herms to expect, or what was actually used in the mix.
THEN he gets six likes for posting “looling great brotha” (his typo, not mine) :roll_eyes:. The seventh like was accidentally from me, while I looked at who was liking that comment :thinking:.
Why not just like the picture yourself, instead of trying to suck up to Tony?

So I write a reply directly to Tony and wait a few days but get no response, Then realize he could’ve addressed my questions when he posted, but chose to completely ignore everything other than someone else’s picture.

I posted on this site specifically because I knew Tony Green frequents it, hoping he would stumble across the thread and be helpful and support his customer and back his product. I felt I was being respectful by not trying to approach or contact him directly, as I’m sure he has hundreds of messages and emails every day. Also, I caught the seed sack early so it’s not like my grow was ruined and I’m not looking for any kind of compensation, just information.
That said, I now feel I was disrespected by Tony in this thread, and the only reason I can think of is because I reported a herm and seed companies don’t like that.

To clarify, these autos were grown in the Veg room and five out of six had no issues, so it’s unlikely conditions of the room. I’ve recently grown other autos in the same room and no issues, as well and many in the flower room and many outside, and no issues. These ones were left to grow completely naturally, no LST or training or stressing of any kind because I wanted to observe their natural growth.

So I guess I’m done with my rant for now, but no matter how these plants turn out, spectacular or nothing but hermies, I will share it with the world.

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Unless there are mass reports of herming, what is he supposed to do? Lets look over at 222 from Brothers Grimm. Once they got enough reports, they retired the strain.

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So are you just reproducing his work ?
Maybe that could be of significance to him, idk.

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I’m not asking him to DO anything, I’m not looking for replacement beans or reimbursement or anything like that.
I was just looking for information, such as “you were the first to report that” or “sorry you got a herm, they only seem to appear once every 200 packs”.
I don’t expect that it’s a common occurrence because I couldn’t find any of that information myself through searching before posting this thread. I expect I would’ve found lots of complaints had it been a common occurrence, Or maybe it’s just not a popular seat so not enough people are growing it yet to find the number of herms.
To be completely honest, being ignored and not even a comment or a question seems a little suspect to me.

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That’s absolutely a fair question, thank you, but no I’m not just reproducing his work, and I have zero intention of trying to make any money from it.
I just enjoy everything about the plant and I’m finally getting into intentional Pollinating.
I primarily grow photo periods but really enjoy autos on the side. I am just an amateur breeder playing around for my own entertainment. I did want this strain to start off my program, but I intend to breed these a couple generations before crossing them to anything else.
All that said, I don’t really see an issue with anyone breeding their own strains by starting with someone else’s. Once you release something to the general public you can’t stop anyone from reproducing it. Apparently Tony got some of these genetics from Twenty20, and I’m sure he didn’t just create the other parent out of thin air, its genetics came from an existing plant as well. Same with any breeder, people will go on and on about not using their own genetics, but doesn’t every plant they breed with come from someone else’s genetics? Giving credit is cool, but not everyone does it.
Anyway, this is just my own project for my own personal use and it is my medicine, so it’s important that I have control over whether it’s seeded or not. I have a watchful eye and I always check new plants for intersex, but it’s easy to miss them when there’s buds on the plant, especially with nanners, because when you see them it’s already too late.
I didn’t come here to hate on Tony or these plants, fingers crossed there will be no more issues and I’ll just be able to enjoy them. Also I am fully aware that I’m trying to seed them late in flower, but there was a medical situation and things had to be put on hold for about two weeks. I may have wasted my time with the males and isolation and pollination, and I may just get a few plants full of under ripe seeds. I won’t blame that on the breeder, that would be on me.

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Thanks for your answer. That certainly states your pure intent. Lately with so many folks reselling seeds and genetics worded criticism of seeds and plants can cause suspicion of resellers. Good to know another gardener, cheers buddy.

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An 83% success rate is pretty good. Consider the five plants a success. For perspective, I have a bunch of Snow high gear that I paid a grip for that others report low/no germ rates on. You’re doing pretty good. Keep growing and see what you got.

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I don’t know, man. I think that leaving a comment in this thread may have been his way of acknowledging that he has seen the issue. He isn’t just sitting back, cloaked, you know for a fact that he’s seen it.

For him, there isn’t any upside from here. He can’t get too defensive and he also shouldn’t attempt to investigate or dig. I am sure that he doesn’t care for this thread being around, but it is what it is. He overloads his packs, so presumably you’ve already gotten the replacement seed in advance.

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