WHAB’s 1924 Brick Schoolhouse RDWC

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I got 2 rolls in.

My middle-back just informed me that I’m done - at least until I forget about my middle-back pain - again!

Maybe I’m misreading my back pain?

I also forgot to first!

Maybe my back pain is telling me “Hey, pal…you forgot to , idiot!”

I’m seeing now that 6 rolls should get me to the most Southern pendant light. IF my figuring is right, I’ll only need 4 more rolls to get the Southern end of what will be the Attic Bloom Room!

IF you are the person that first used Bloom Room in my thread, let me know, please. I demand to credit you!

Now a .

Maybe 2 to make up for the one I missed.

My back could sure use it!

Good morning!

Make it a great day!

,
WHAB

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Hey, man!

I should have included this in our last excellent exchange ()!

I’m going to have to re-frame the trusses above the loft IF my initial design comes to fruition.

I don’t want to have to deal with the center support or the diagonals…it’s harshin’ my groove, man! .

They’ll have to be redesigned.

Something like this…(it’s crude, but it didn’t take me very long to convey the point to our friends at MPG at that time ).

I’m pretty sure I made some minor changes after this sketch…2x4s will be whatever is up there now. I also decided to make it narrower to get greater height and take advantage of it, that sketch is looking from one end to the other. 8x12 are the numbers I’m working with now. That’s the 8 feet end. Extending away from this point for a distance of 6 trusses, 2 feet each = 12 feet (not including that change of direction on the Gable End which is an added benefit of about a foot or so on that end (so adding 8sf to total - approximate)).

Purple are sandwiched gussets (on both left and right sides, only drew one side for speed ). Plywood gussets on both sides of the areas where extra support would be very helpful.

Again, any comments, recommendations, suggestions or even playful banter encouraged!

Thanks again, @Gpaw!

,
WHAB

[Gpaw]

Yes, plywood gussets are the way to go.
1/4" or 3/8" ply and liberal amounts of your favorite polyvinyl acetate wood glue. Pop a few nails or screws to hold it in place until the adhesive sets.
You will have to go one king post at a time. That will make a very stiff structure.

Raising the horizontal green 2x4 to gain more height is the way to go. That should eliminate the upper struts. Cutting is going to be demanding work.

Cheers
G

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Precisely, my friend.

Titebond here (2 of their 3 wood glue products)!

Good call on the horizontal!

Yes, I think I decided to just go with a small cross-tie as the “ceiling” at the top of the rafters, IF I remember correctly.

There is a peculiar circumstance with all of these trusses.

They’re not built in line, in one plane…

The king post does not fall on the ceiling joists plumb below them. They’re offset, for some reason I can’t comprehend. They’re offset by about 8 inches, I ‘think’.

It ‘may’ allow me to build new trusses, built to my design, then remove the old bits (without destroying the roof)…

There is room for that, IF I remember correctly…which I’m pretty sure of since I thought about your previous post that triggered this old Thought Process Machine…just needed a high voltage jump start!

I’ll post about it when I can put it in to digital words to best describe it (of course, loads of Picies! ) .

Thanks again for adding to the discussion, @Gpaw ! You’ve added to it in immense ways - and thereby shocking my Overripe Melon!

I’m giving my back a break today. I even brought a 5 gallon bucket up there so I can occasionally sit down, I thought. Never got to even use it as my back told me it had had enough!

, mate!,
WHAB

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Not to scale. Not completely accurate.

Just a quick sketch.

Looking at the trusses from the end of the truss, rafter and lower chord. (King Post does look plumb (I think), until the sketch, I didn’t catch it until this very instant)

Weirdest thing I’ve ever seen in a wooden structure.

IF it works out like what is in my Thought Process Machine, I ‘think’ there is enough room for me to build another truss in the space between the apex where the rafter, and the king posts meet and the next ceiling joist.

Or, also from memory. I can build a supplemental truss on top of the existing ceiling joists to a point plumb above them.

IF I had to attribute a name to them, I’d say they’re preloaded to put tension on the system tightening it up, like a diagonal brace in new construction that then is removed as construction is completed, but these are permanent.

Weird!

,
WHAB

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I hope the picture better explains the situation better than my attempting to come up with something. Completely disregard the diagonal supports.

It, the existing rafter, actually does not go to a ceiling joist (truss lower chord).

I goes to the next faux rafter tail whose only job is to - besides anchoring the rafter - poke out to the rim joist eave/soffit.

The apex and where the king post land is on the same plane, the rafter swerves over to the next, nearest faux rafter tail.

as F!

BUT, you’ll also note, that I can build a rafter/truss system right on top of that ceiling joist (truss lower chord) to the point where it will meet the apex of the king post and the ceiling joist. Plumb (straight) up from there.

Btw, I only went out there because of your willingness to engage.

Thank you!

Time for a !

,
WHAB

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Something like this, I’m thinking (currently, subject to change )

Now , for realz this time!

Edit Add: I see now they text is very small. IF you can’t read it, I’ll redo the picture…just let me know, please.

Edit Add: Testing to see if text is more readable.

,
WHAB

[Gpaw]

@WhiteHotAfterburner

It, the existing rafter, actually does not go to a ceiling joist (truss lower chord).

It goes to the next faux rafter tail whose only job is to - besides anchoring the rafter - poke out to the rim joist eave/soffit.

Now I’m starting to wonder what’s actually holding the roof together…

If the lower ends of the rafters aren’t directly tied to the bottom cord then your red lower struts (your drawing above) become significantly more important.

Is that style of roof (high pitched with ski jump bottom) usual in your area?
I’ve only seen them in Quebec and on the east coast…

Insulation: R30 ~40 is typical up here for ceiling insulation. Seeing those narrow batts makes me cringe a little. I’d improve that…

Cheers
G

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Hello friend!

Sorry to leave this unanswered for so long. I do apologize.

I do hope this message finds you well!

That is the only roof around here that I’ve seen like that. The only thing that makes sense to me is … I think part of the reason is the double stacked brick walls. That hitched roof (faux rafter tails) cantilever out over the outer stack of the brick wall to provide for an eave/soffit/fascia. But, I really don’t know.

I do know I’ve never seen a truss system like what is used here. Makes my head hurt thinking about it! But, it’s stood here for nearly 100 years, so there’s that

Yes, those waste of time/effort and money 15 inch rolled insulation is just really puzzling. I still don’t understand it.

Luckily, I can use those rolls somewhere else where they are the right product

The roll insulation I’m putting in is R19. I have it in my Thought Process Machine that I’ll double that when I can, thereby making it R38.

Thank you for your input, brother…and I do, sincerely, apologize for leaving you hanging.

Regards,
WHAB

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Hello friends!

I have not made any progress with the insulation. Still undecided how to address those gaps and make it look at least barely presentable.

I do plan to make another supply run soon. Maybe to include the Rockwool that will go under the future Bloom Room, the attic space that will be built out.

I’ve been slammed with other things or not doing anything at all!

Also, these past several days have had me IR due to my back. Just the other day I spent at least a day and a half in bed.

What makes that worse is that all that rack time didn’t alleviate my pain - in fact, it made it worse.

Our natural pain reliever was my only reprieve.

I have Xrays and a full MRI (Cervical, Thoracic and Lumbar) on the 12th.

My next serious aim is where I lay my head to rest. I’ve been putting it off and regretting putting it off.

I can’t buy a mattress online. I’d hate to get it wrong. And, GOOD ones (Orthopedic types) are $$$.

And, I still haven’t done anything with my car (except to explore a intermittent whining noise in the engine compartment - I think the power steering pump is low on fluid ( ). I’ve never put fluid in it (I don’t believe) in the nearly 20 years I’ve owned it.

I’ve also spent a good deal of time shopping for a Zero Turn mower. My brother will need his Kubota at his new place. A LOT more snow there. I didn’t want to hold him up a single day once he decides it’s time to fetch it up.

I bought a Gravely ZT X 52 Zero Turn Mower just today.

I’ve been trying to load ONE image the entire time from my last above to now . I’ve been on both ends trying to make it work to include several restarts on the phone, turning the app on and off, and the PC end to include restarts. I’ve watched it connect and disconnect and still no transfer. Going with a stock image. Without the white markings. (Very Frustrating)

I even have insurance coverage on an item I am not yet in possession of.

Lots to do, little time remaining.

Oh, Happy United States Marine Corps 246th Birthday (prematurely )! Gonna try and rig a better, but temporary, light for , she’s earned it!

I hope you’re all making it a great day/night/week!

Now some Raspberry Cough (It ‘might’ be my overripe melon , but it seems to have a nice fruity aroma - nice!) ,
WHAB

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Hey there folks!

And, then, Dang It!

Rockwool potentially available Dec. 29th - maybe. And, I have to buy 8 bags ($56 per bag) when I only really need 3. IF I have to buy 8 bags I’ll insulate that whole North 1/3 of the attic above the loft.

Lally Column (Jack Post) potentially available Dec. 5th, they say now - maybe.

4x6x12 (under floor support, to then build on) not available anywhere. Anywhere I have looked ie Home Depot, Lowe’s and Menards… Buying 2 2x8x16s instead and I’ll build a beam.

This is becoming much more difficult by just having to adjust my plans…then scrounging the builder sites to determine what will do in the place of what I really want or need!

IF I have to wait until January to insulate the grow space, that’s going to really dampen my existing plans!

On a positive note, 2x4x8’s are back down to reasonable prices. Under $4 again!

I bought 6 2x4x8’s just because!

Oh, here’s the newest addition to the homestead!

This is the image I was trying to upload the other day. A few hours after that failed attempt it became accessible to me…about 3 hours later. Now, IF I can time my creative juices to flow when the pictures are ready. Sort of hobbles those attempts. I need them when I need them, not whenever they’re ready to be needed!

I ran it over the lawn yesterday, mostly just to help mulch all the leaves that came down already.

That’s just my front yard, right out in front of the 1924 Brick Schoolhouse.

I used Google Maps to estimated the mowed acreage. 2+ acres.

This Gravely represents the first thing I have taken out a loan on in over 16 years.

Part of the reasoning I did it, besides needing a lawn mower here so my brother can take his tractor whenever he is ready to, is to help build my credit back up.

I’m going to try and purchase a Cassette type Mini-Split (possibly a 2 zone unit) outright down the road but, I ‘may’ have to get it on payments. It’s going to be over $3000, at least…that’s with me doing the work.

I rocked the ZTM 4 times on the first day! for your flatlanders, that means hit rocks with the mower blades (same terminology regards chainsaws)) Better start shopping for blades AND a sharpening setup!

Lastly, I did rig up a light for . 246th United States Marine Corps. Birthday, then Veterans Day the following day.

Happy Birthday Marines!

Thank you Veterans past, present and future!

But, it didn’t work how I thought it would. It was really windy that day (I got it done in between rain, sometimes heavy rain) and today even and flies behind the bracket I made. I built it out from the wall to get it closer to and it gets wrapped around it.

I have pictures of the work…and the fails!

Guess what!

See you in several hours, with pictures - maybe!

I hope you’re ALL making it a great night!

,
WHAB

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After what I just relayed, things changed, I guess

Was told that delivery options would be available at checkout.

I just checked out. The only shipping option was to let them tell me what is being shipped!

The ONLY thing that is getting shipped is a WiFi Space Heater I am going to try to use under the floor at the water service. I’m pretty sure now that that is where it froze last year. I had assumed it froze in the water softener enclosure where I’m running 2 250W Heat Lamps on a brewing controller…but, it froze anyway and after looking at things I’m thinking it is most likely to have frozen where the heat lamps couldn’t reach - on the other side of that wall (under the floor).

And, here is the ONLY Mineral Wool insulation can find around here. Minimum buy of 8 packages (only NEED 3)…

"Get it as soon as 12/29/2021"

,
WHAB

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For anyone curious, this is my brother’s property. 19 acres in all. The full rectangle pictured…

The red-roofed structure in the right lower corner is the 1924 Brick Schoolhouse.

This is the mowed area, from the right side all the way to the treelines left and above, excluding the obstacles, of course.

These satellite pictures are old, btw…really old. There is a YUGE hoop-house in between the schoolhouse and the main house (top right). It’s been there for years, ever since I first saw the place a few years ago now.

That bramble behind the schoolhouse (the front of the schoolhouse is the right in the picture) isn’t there. It never was there since my brother bought the place.

And, the YUGE shop my brother just had built is just above and to the left of the main house.

The remaining large roof to the left of the two residences I have described above is the ‘garage’ that I use.

Coincidentally, there is an RV right where you see one in that image, but that’s not my brothers, that’s the former owners RV…nearly identical location. There is a gravel driveway right there now that goes from the road on the right to both the garage and the new shop.

This is where those 19 acres of pure solitude land!

IF you’re in any way curious!

Time to some Raspberry Cough!

,
WHAB

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Just one more thing about the property.

The former owner and his friend started building a hangar, the West end of the treeline to the right.

I think they’re plan was to fly ultra-lights from the property…and I imagine out over the lake - it’s a big lake!.

Don’t know why it never got completed. IF it wasn’t out in the middle of nowhere , it would have been worth building out. The bones are there.

The 2 fellas re-roofed the schoolhouse. I was told they were both in their 80’s at the time.

A 12/12 roof

I’m a bit of an Aviation nerd and it just fits into my life’s experiences too well

I can picture the old friends wheeling them out to the “runway” and defying gravity! Shaking their old-man fists at gravity!

The building would have been big enough to park 2 full ultras…not the kite type.

,
WHAB

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It took longer than several hours for these pictures to become available to transfer from my phone to my PC

Here’s my failed attempt at lighting .

I built the light bracket out from the wall to get it closer to as I thought it would light better.

I was wrong. It became a nuisance with the winds we’ve been having.

My next attempt is going to build a light bracket out from the faux rafter tails out in front and above of , like the billboards of old…the ones that extend out from the front of the billboard and shining their light back at the billboard.

Something like this…

I think that will be the best solution until I can afford a proper flagpole for my 5+‘x9+’

I hope you’re ALL making it a great night!

Time to some Raspberry Cough!

,
WHAB

[Gpaw]

Looks great!

Just some fine tuning, …try rotating the light bar to throw the photons more off the brick wall, I think that might help.

Cheers
G

[WhiteHotAfterburner]

Hello friend, @Gpaw

The one position I didn’t try was back towards the wall

I installed 2 sets of mounting clips for the lights, the ones they supply…1 set pointing up, the other set pointing out (away from the wall).

I get what you’re saying, and I will certainly look at that. Thank you!

Besides my failed attempt (actually, not failed…it was just test as you say “fine tuning” ) I did not like how looked with the back-lit lighting.

I was hoping it would give a nice back-lit (subdued) view while still showing her finer details. I don’t believe it passed that showing her finer details test. I ‘think’ only lighting from the front will accomplish that. I ‘think’ ) … I did not like how looked with the back-lit lighting.

And still, that bracket I made protrudes too far from the wall giving an easy avenue to becoming fouled.

I’ve unfouled about a 1/2 a dozen+ times, and those were only the times I was out there for something else .

You know what would be nice, imo? (Thought Process Machine working overtime! ) Put in a light-duty frame (just grabbing her four edges) with LED light Strips along the inside edges of that frame.

I will try your suggestion, my friend, while this bracket is up there anyway. It would only require one small modification to this current bracket to test it out. Thank you for it!

Since this failed test, though, my Thought Process Machine keeps returning to old Roadside Billboards…

Thank you, again, for your input! I appreciate it!

.
WHAB

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This may be of interest to those running auxiliary heat to delicate environments, like grow rooms…etc.

I tested my anti-freeze system last night.

This is the setup - Inkbird 308 WiFi Thermostat. It’s a Brewing Controller. You can see the controller just below the input/output plumbing on the water softener. I put it there so I can see it through a unused screw hole in the corrugated metal surrounding the water softener enclosure to make sure it is in fact operational. Trust only goes so far!

The above is also why I think it didn’t freeze there. Those 250W Heat Lamps are positioned directly on the vulnerable areas, the water service and the water softener head…IF they were any closer they’d melt the plastic components.

I have the controller set to turn the heat lamps on when the temperature in the water softener enclosure hits 38F…long before it reaches freezing. I do still have to complete the insulation in that space. I haven’t come up with a good way to insulate the space and still have easy access - ie insulate the doors I still have to make for the enclosure. The corrugated metal siding is making it more difficult for me to figure out.

Under the schoolhouse has no similar provisions. I’m addressing that presently. I ‘think’ having a heat source under the schoolhouse floor directed at the where the water service enters the building.

Both the Inkbird and the Space Heater that’s due in soon are WiFi ready. I can monitor and control both of them from my phone from wherever I may be, as long as I have WiFi signal at the schoolhouse.

IF the WiFi ready space heater has an auto-restart function (which I’m not entirely sure of at this point - I don’t believe it does, but I’m not sure), I will plug it into the Inkbird controller and it will turn on to whatever temp I have the controller set to (will have to check total amperage of the two 250W heat lamps and the space heater). Either way I’m going to try and run its power cord out through the service opening under the floor back out into the water softener enclosure. I do know that opening is a very busy place currently, meaning it looked pretty full the last time I was down there…water, propane and electrical all run through that one small opening.

I don’t have an open electrical outlet available in that area under the floor or inside the schoolhouse.

One of the things I hope to have done the next time I have my electrician over I’m going to have him put an outlet under the floor there.

All I know right now is, I don’t ever want to go without water another single day ever again. It was not a good time.

I do hope this information my be helpful to others and/or to better understand their situation or mine.

Make it a great night, friends!

,
WHAB

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Well, I got geared up to get back to insulating the attic. I decided to clinch the nails coming through the ceiling into the attic to avoid ripping the insulation as I install it. I just (relatively speaking - when waiting hours on Your Phone app pulled out a roll of the wrong R13 and the paper ripped where it has to pass under a piece of the roof sub-structure, where the 3 gabbles meet - it’s the rafters that aren’t ‘roofed’ where they meet. I’ll have to feed the new, correct R19 insulation under that same board making it susceptible to tearing. When I started clinching the nails Dirt Dauber nests started falling all around me.

I’ve been trying to avoid this, but I think it must be done now.

There are hundreds of Dirt Dauber nests all over the attic, high and low, on the rafters and the truss lower chord. Calling it a thousand may not be an overstatement.

When I was done clinching those nails in front and behind that sub-structure, I started knocking the Dirt Dauber nests off the wood surfaces by hand, and into a 5 gallon bucket. When I decided I have to get rid of them now, I started using a Ball Peen hammer to knock them off.

I’m knocking them off over here and they’re falling off over here

My original plan, before I even bought any insulation, was to lay some plastic down (I have a partial roll around here somewhere ) to catch the nests AFTER I was done insulating the space and carry them out like a hobos bindle.

I’ve been reluctant to do it. I never wanted to do it. I have 2 great vacuums.

I’ve been looking at them for a couple of years now…never wanting to buy one…

But, I don’t want to subject my woodworking dust collection to rock hard dirt clods…maybe 100lbs worth .

I just bought this…

I may only get one use out of it, it’s that bad up there

Should be delivered by the 18th, they say .

Your Phone has embargoed any and all images! Release TBD!

I’ll switch gears again and get something done…

Maybe I’ll just another instead!

,
WHAB

[WhiteHotAfterburner]

They only just this moment became available. I’ve been trying to skin this cat in anther direction, but to no avail!

It would be nice if there was a “Hey, dummy, it’s ready” notification!

Besides the Dirt Daubers, they’re is all Walnut shells ALL OVER THE PLACE. More crap, more crap I don’t want in my dust collection.

The Pink you see laying around is what was scraped off the roll by the nail points protruding through.

I was knocking off dirt dauber nests on the left of the above picture and all of that fell down to my right when I did.

Note there was at least one very creative Dirt Dauber up there.

They went with the Earthy tones!

I can not just cover that up, as much as I don’t want to be up there on my hands and knees removing all of that crap with a Shop Vacuum I never wanted to own, it has to be done.

Also, pictures?

I just took these right before I started this post.

Within minutes they were available for transfer!

It’s NOT woodworking, but I was able to run the Festool TS75 for a minute or two, at least. Got my Slot Car memories satisfied!

I had to piece back in the pieces I removed when I installed the Attic Ladder. I had to remove it in pieces (with my circular saw, it was all I had at the moment) and it’s going back that way! (until I get around to reworking the ceiling!)

The unpainted panel on the left was like that when I started, like the other panels around the perimeter, they never got painted for a reason I am unaware of . The other unpainted surface is the attic ladder door.

You can see my ugly patch on this side of the loft railing.

There are some full sheets of Luan in the shed…at least one full one, I recall from memory without having counted them. There are some partial sheets, too. IF I can get around to it, before I rework the ceiling, I’ll see if I can get a better patch-panel up there.

Good morning!

Make it a great day!

Imma get off the clock and

,
WHAB