Im curious to find out your flow rate with the smaller nozzle opening youāre trying.
What pressure are you running? The ones I had fail were running at or above the max pressure rating - I think its 115 PSI?
Interesting that both of mine also failed open.
Iām really close to a flow test now. Just got done installing the new tank bulkhead fitting so I will be doing leak tests today and then I can start plumbing.
I run at 80-100psi, so hopefully I wonāt have any issues running them. I am very interested in seeing what the flow looks like though. The new plumbing allows me to close two ball valves and open one to instantly switch to D2W, so thatās a bonus. 
(Itās also how I plan on dumping the res for changes, no more transfer pump for me.)
Yeah thatās a bit worrysome, actually. I assumed when these failed theyād fail closed (NC and all), but who knows wtf is happening there.
I guess one small silver lining to failing OPEN is your roots wont dry out and die before you find the problem
Note to self, pay attention to the arrow when testing solenoids and nozzles next time.
It seems I was a bit too high when I was testing and had the solenoid backwards, thus the āfailureā. Retested and itās working fine. Stupid mistake haha.
I know itās been a while since I updated, but I have made quite a bit of progress.
First we finally got the RO system and spigot installed in the room. Iām using quick-connects on everything since I need this faucet every other day to fill our chicken waterer.
We also installed the new rails on the ceiling that allowed me to move the lights to the center and also space the grow beds out better. (I will finally have access to the back of my plants this time.)
This version of the system is also designed to be able to be reconfigured at any point, so I can switch from HPA to F&D, DWC, or any combination. Just a bit of future-proofing for myself.
Iāve also been following @anon32470837 closely and what heās doing with his HPA setup. Because of this I went ahead and setup the system for the next run to be DTW running from the 35 gallon res.
We used Fernco fittings to make things easier to disassemble and clean, as well as reconfigure if needed. The drain lines are all properly angled to ensure even a little bit of water will flow out properly and since this connects to my 3rd bathroom primary drain we also installed a p-trap and a valve I had on hand. The valve is actually really nice for closing off the drain and then filling the beds for cleaning ā I can see that being used quite often.
Now that the big things are out of the way I can finally get back to the nitty-gritty and get all of the little things installed. Hopefully within a week I will be back and ready to runā¦
I really really wish I had room to do that. My tent is only 28" deep, but it sits on a work bench that is 30". I didnt think 30" reach would be bad, but it really is when the plants start to get taller. If I tossed some of my wifes stuff out to make some extra room, I could do that. Of course, then I would get tossed outā¦ 
Jealous of @anon32470837ās subsecond timer I decided it was time to upgrade.
Last run I was turning the LED driver on and off every few minutes, which I assume cannot be good for it. Here I am bench testing the driver which now powers the timer itself and the line of solenoids.
Iāve also been playing with nozzle placement, trying to answer a few questionsā¦ (Any thoughts @anon32470837?)
Either 2 or 4, I havenāt decided quite yet.
My nozzles enter from the lid, but that feed line can be extended as much as I want to bring the nozzles lower into the bed.
The swivels allow me some freedom of movement, so I need to find the right angle here.
An example of how my nozzles enter the lid. (This will be flipped over and sits on top of the grow bed.)
I also did some spray testing, though I did not run flow rates yet. (I probably need to finish that up before I decide 2 or 4 nozzles.) Hereās a quick shot that I think really shows off the fine mist that covers the bed after a spray from a single nozzle, you can see where I ran my finger across so I could gauge āwetnessā.
At this point I have everything I need to finish up the system with the exception of extra time.
Nice find. Thats the same brand Im using, but mine only goes down to 0.1 seconds instead of 0.01. I like that it has solid state relays, but when youāre under 1 second of ON time, it would be nice to be able to dial it in a little closer than Ā± 0.1
Your driver will like this better than constant ON/OFF cycles.
I dont know how long your wire run is from timer to solenoids, but you might want to check for any significant voltage drop. They only draw 0.4 amps each, but if you have a bunch running off the same timer, and a long wire run, it could get significant depending on wire size.
Yeah, all of those depend largely on the flow rates, and the quality of the mist, and the resulting hang time.
I forget how large your chambers are?
I would recommend you do some flow testing before you go much further. Test more than one nozzle - I found up to 20% difference between some of the nozzles from low to hi. I suspect some of that difference is due to the ADVās opening and closing at different pressures because of variations in the springs. In any case, you need to test a few different ones and average out the numbers.
Also, try to get a feel for the throw distance. That will vary with pressure. My nozzles will throw larger drops a long ways, but the fine mist part is only good for 15" or so and then tapers off quickly. Cardboard targets help with this, or anything that kets you see the droplet pattern at different distances. A flat black background with side lighting in an other wise totally dark room helps a lot too. If you can video the mist pulse under those conditions, it will tell you a lot - how long it takes the solenoids to open/close, if you have major drips at the start or end of the pulse, if there is run-on flow, hang time, etc. LEDās seem to work better than something like a flash light with an incandescent type bulb.
Thats a lot of trouble, but it helped me a lot to pin down details and make changes.
Once you have the flow rates, Atomizers recommendations were as follows.
This is if you DONT have good hang times. I think this would also apply if you dont have space for good āflowā of the mist - too small a chamber for example or roots filling it up too much. In those cases, you have no choice but to spray the roots directly. Normally, you are supposed to spray off into the open spaces, but of you have no open spaces, your stuck with this option.
The target daily throughputs are based on full coverage of 5-80 mist which hangs for the entire pause duration and then some so the roots are never without mist. If you dont have it, the best approach is to make the pulse as short as practical to maximise the number of mistings and adjust the pause based on root wetness and structure. In a lot of cases you`ll find the target daily throughput numbers are reasonably close even though the pulse and pause timing will be different. If the ideal total nozzle flowrate for a chamber is 4.5LPH, and you need 3 x 4.5LPH to get the coverage, you are forced to use 3x the pause to achieve the same daily flowrate.
Here are the basic flow targets and some of his comments on placement.
I would recommend root chamber no less than 15"-16 deep for high pressure aero. As for mist timing,a lot depends on the mist quality (droplet size range), nozzle flowrate, coverage and level of control you haveā¦
In an ideal system, you would set the misting duration based on flowrate and chamber volume. For early growth, the misting duration would provide 0.02ml -0.04ml per gallon of chamber volume. For later growth, 0.06ml per gallon.
The interval between mistings is adjusted to provide the target daily throughput, which will be somewhat dependant on environment variables (light,heat etc). As an example, a 26 gallon chamber with one 1gph nozzle would need a 0.5- 1 second misting duration in early growth and upto 1.5 seconds for later growth. The interval between mistings for early growth would be 35-70 seconds (dependant on the misting duration setting) with a target daily throughput of 1.3 litres. For later growth, the interval would be around 50 seconds with a target daily throughput of 2.65L. The name of the game is to inject mist little and often to maintain an optimal aeroponic environment.
Most aeroponic systems have flowrate, coverage and/or control limitations which provides a defined wet/dry cycle rather than a constant mist environment.
Choosing the correct nozzles involves matching the mist pattern to the chamber and/or planting layout. Nozzles come in a wide range of types, full cone, hollow cone, flat fan etc. To make things more interesting, there are various.cone angles and short and long throw. Consider which nozzle pattern/type provides full and even mist coverage with the fewest number of nozzles (as this affects the system flowrate). For example,.narrow cone long throw nozzles are best suited to long narrow chambers with rows of planting sites. The mist is directed horizontally into the space between the two rows, This will generate two walls of roots running the length of the chamber with an open corridor of space allowing mist distribution. Be aware that roots can and will thwart even the best laid plans as they can sense where the nozzles are located and will try to grow towards them., Roots can grow horizontally into open space ( defying gravity),they can climb UP a sheer chamber wall and even attach themselves to the slick underside of a chamber lid to get closer to a nozzle. Making the nozzle locations adjustable is a good idea as is having nozzles that are accessible from OUTSIDE the chamber for easier maintenance.
Youāre going to have a single plant per chamber? That should make it easier. I would be tempted to put them in the corners as far away from the net pot as possible, but that will depend on the throw distance. That will give you more room for the roots to grow before they swollow the nozzles
One thing that helped me was sticking cardboard tubes from paper towels, etc in the hole where the net pot is and running a few cycles on the nozzles. The pattern of wetness on the cardboard will tell you a lot - big drops or small drops or no drops or a lot of drops, etc. You can adjust each nozzle separately so they all hit evenly. No two of my nozzles had the exact same pattern.
I still havent finalized a plan for where my nozzles will go next time, but 100% for sure, they need to be easily movable to new locations/heights/angles. Part of my problem is that running the tubing and solenoids on top of the chamber puts them in the grow space - where they are subject to hi temps. I worry that will pre-heat the water enough to raise my chamber temps too hi. Plus, the heated nutes in the tubes may want to grow shit I dont want growing if it gets much above 70F. Im still trying to come up with alternates for insulation or a different location that also allows for easy access. Unfortunately, I just dont have room to get to the sides or back of my chamber, so I think Im stuck going in the top like you. Iāll probably go with a double layer of foam and bury the tubing/solenoids in the foam and hope.
I dont see any signs of big droplets, so that looks good! I almost forgot to post this from a recent Atomizer post on RIU about my umbrella shaped roots. He thinks my droplet sizing might be too small! Im not sure I agree with that, but Im going to pass it along. You should have even smaller average droplet sizing than I do, but maybe your will be better quality - more uniform in size. I know mine have a lot of over size droplets mixed in just from watching the videos and looking at cardboard targets.
Either your mist is too fine or there`s not enough of the larger droplets making it to where they need to be. If there is no middle ground between fuzzy umbrella roots and hydro roots that grow down, its a control issue. Figure what settings deliver which variety of roots and try a setting somewhere in the middle of the two. Depending on the results you can then shift the settings more towards the umbrella or the hydro root end until you find the sweet spot where the roots are fuzzy and grow down.
Obviously, I have not found that sweet spot
Good call, I hadnāt thought about that w/ the relocation of the timer to the control center. Iāll break out the multimeter and do some testing.
Just had to double-check, the Meanwell puts out 3A so Iām right at the edge if I power 6 solenoids, too. Iām ground switching, so I should be able to run another driver from the same timer if needed.
Around 25" x 25". I am hoping to get out and do some more testing today, just a matter of how much digging out I actually have to do after this crazy snowfall and wind last night. (Been running on generator for about 12 hours now.)
Iām thinking high up in the corners will stay pretty root-free, but I need to see if I can get some good mist coverage from that location w/o direct spray. I will be doing a LOT of testing I think.
Thanks for the thoughts, thereās a lot still to determine here but getting a quick roundup of that knowledge is great. I will get more tests ran this week and see if I canāt throw together a video of the different spray patterns.
Most of the Meanwells are at peak efficiency when running at 100% output, so I wouldnt worry about running them flat out - other than incidental heating. They will run hot and need some circulation for cooling as well as heating up the surroundings.
Our inches of snow is finally melting and Ive had enough. Glad I dont live where they have ārealā winters!
How deep are the chambers? All of Atomizers calcs are based on total chamber volume. However, the first āruleā is you need to fill the chamber with mist on each cycle, so the volume is only needed to do flow calculations if your comparing your numbers to his.
In the real world, assuming you can spray into open space, you need to set the ON timing so the chamber is just barely filled on each cycle. Of course, āfilledā is in the eye of the beholder. I found it really hard to judge that and the quality of the mist, so its just a starting point. Once you have some roots, you can judge relative wetness and adjust more precisely. Off times are more difficult to judge I think. It takes a long time to tell if and what changes are occurring after you make adjustments.
Id highly recommend having an easy way to get some close up pics of the root structure. My cell phone did pretty good shooting through a couple of 3"x3" holes cut in my chamber walls - one hi and one low. I have air tight flaps velcro over the holes when Im not using them. Plus, I have a large hatch in the top of the chamber, but that one was hard to get air tight. In any case, you need to be able to get a close look at the structure to judge wetness. A USB scope works well to reach inside and get really close up shots.
I decided that a nice coat of small droplets was close to ideal, but it was a thin line between good and too dry. Large drops were too much.
Yup Thats a lot of the fun for me. I must be bored because I enjoy this crap - well, as long as there is no algaeā¦ 
Finally was able to get some heat in the garage and make some more progress on things.
After messing with the reservoir chamber quite a bit I realized the front I had built was going to be extremely annoying to deal with. I purchased some closet door runners from Amazon and built some new removable 1/4" sliding doors. I still need to pull the old facade apart to trim this out, but this is much more functional. The top workbench is still easy to remove as well and has had slots added for cords to pass through. (Still need to add some hard rubber to seal those up.)
Looking down into the reservoir chamber I have the glycol res all setup w/ itās heater and Iāve been testing different locations to hang the air pump. When I hung it up and put the top back on you canāt even hear it, so thatās perfect.
We also ran the power for the chamber back through the wall into the other room so it can connect to the proper circuit. Donāt want to be running the lights off the same circuit that powers the workbench. This also gives me the hole I need for the supply line into the nutrient res.
On top of the nutrient res you can see the small blue SensorPush sensor. These things are awesome and highly recommended. I also was able to complete the initial connection to their API so I can automatically pull the data into my mobile grow log app.
Unfortunately the added heat in the garage caused an unforeseen issue. I had some serious snow built up on the roof and apparently a nasty ice dam above the grow room. This caused water to back up and literally rain down in the room itself. I had planned on a new roof this year anyways, but damnā¦
Iāve turned up the heat in the room and turned back on the circulation fans and exhaust system. That should bring the humidity down and dry up that water pretty quick. I also spent 3 hours on the roof knocking down snow and ice so I should have that issue taken care of for this winter. Ah the joys of a log home in the middle of woods of the UP.
Next up is more mist testing and sealing up the reservoir chamber to see if I can keep the water at the proper temp, even in the freezing cold.
Cool. Where, where?
Did they publish the API recently? Through the gateway or via the cloud?
edit: ahh, cool. This? https://github.com/malgorithms/sensorpush#readme
I found a Facebook comment someplace that said to email them and theyād grant access, so I did that. But before they could reply I found the NPM. I wrote my own version in C# though since I absolutely hate Node. It was easy enough, itās just a modified OAuth2 setup with some simple calls into the service to poll the data.
I plan on feeding a NN with all of my data ā pH, EC, water temp, room and outside temp/humidity, etc. I feel like I can spot anomalies over greater time spans and perhaps even start predicting issues as they start to show.
For example, the system could spot an accelerating pH drift long before I could catch it manually.
I have a mobile app that works as my data entry for manual data points, so at some point I might open this up for others to use. If I can aggregate data in the NN from multiple grows I just might end up with some really useful prediction.
Either way, itāll be fun for me.
After cleaning the roof last night I finally stopped water from entering from making its way into the grow room. Cranking the heat in there helped dry it up so I should be good for some more work in there tonight.
Wow. DEFINATELY following this thread. What a nice, deliberate, grow room. Cannot wait to see the fruit it will bare.
Thanks.
Cool.
Yes, I just looked over the node source and the author kept it relatively straight forward. The author was nice enough to comment the key steps. Similarly, not looking to use node directly.
Not sure why theyāve been keeping it (the protocol) semi-secret. Maybe they donāt want too many of us āhackersā causing a denial of service on their serversā¦
Did they provide you with any additional API information? Looks kinda like itās a GraphQL server but not certain.
Mmmm, great minds think alike
For me though, thatās a bit further off in the futureā¦
Nice work.
Nothing from them yet, but I am hoping to hear something from them today.
From the Facebook post:
I spend every day working on massive datasets for my business, so this should be an easy and fun change of pace for me. I already have MS Azure running the backend so adding the AI components is pretty straight-forward.
Itād surely help if there were more hours in the day, though.
Received a reply back from SensorPush on the API access. Here is what they had to say.
Itās interesting that I was getting data before even having API access, but perhaps I was breaking things or circumventing their security somehow. Weāll see what changes once I get full access (perhaps itās just for portal/docs access).
I read the terms, here are some of the interesting snippets:
You may not connect to the SensorPush Gateway with: (a) any device that is not manufactured, distributed, or sold by or on behalf of SensorPush (such as a knock off or counterfeit version of a Product); (b) any device that intends to resemble or purports to be a The Product or SensorPush-compatible Product; or Ā© any unauthorized application or-third party connection. Any violation or attempted violation of this provision may result in the immediate termination of your ability to access the SensorPush Gateway.
What do they mean by Gateway in this context? The Gateway as purchased or their cloud API āgatewayā.
If they are trying to limit how you interconnect with a purchased device, that amounts to them being able to ābrickā it at their whim. Which, Iād have a general problem with.
(may not) Use the SensorPush Gateway, SensorPush Content, SensorPush Data, the Apps, or the API for any commercial purpose or for the benefit of any third party, or in any manner not permitted by these Terms;
ā¦
If you utilize an API, you agree to limit queries to a maximum of one (1) per minute. SensorPush may suspend or terminate your access to the Services through the API for any failure by you, or those acting on your behalf, to adhere to such limit or comply with these Terms in any respect.
ā¦
(may not) Intercept or āsniffā the communication packets between the Products and mobile devices or attempt to reverse engineer any SensorPush Software or protocol;
ā¦
Looks like they want to create a walled garden.
They are trying to prevent knockoff devices from utilizing their gateway hardware.
This is becoming pretty standard since a lot of Chinese knockoffs have been coming out. Basically says if you use the knockoffs to connect to their gateway they have the right to prevent your gateway from reporting data to them. Iām not too worried about that part since I am only using their hardware.
Part of this is most likely related to the beta nature of the API. They want to limit requests and prevent someone from launching something commercial against it. I am sure if I reached out and started a business relationship with them there would be no issues ā but really Iām only polling for myself anyways.
Coming from a business background it looks to me like a standard CYA (cover your ass) approach. Theyāre testing it, making sure itās going to perform, and trying to prevent anyone from getting ahead of them by using their platform as a stepping stone. Iām sure this will adjust over time.
Iām just happy that I can now calculate VPD across my entire grow and not have to spend ridiculous amounts of money on Pulse sensors. ($150 more, PER SENSOR.) My current setup cost me $450 ā it would have been $1200 if I went w/ Pulse.
My new 12v sub-second timer box is now complete. It uses a fused power switch and everything inside is powered by the 12v LED driver. The output is constant power and a switched ground that trips the solenoids.
The glycol reservoir is plumbed to the heat exchanger and is ready for its first fill and flow test. During hotter months the chiller will sit outside of the chamber and will be piped into the system by rerouting the insulated hoses. For now the heater is submerged in the tank to keep things in the proper temp range. (Iāll still need the heater in the summer, since my water comes out of the ground at 40-45F.)
The air pump has found its new home on the upper crossbeam. The manifold will send air into the reservoir below through two of its outputs, while three others feed into the room to supply fresh air to the root zone.
When the lid is on and the doors closed the only indication something is going on is the crazy set of boxes above that control everything. I will be rearranging these later today when I install the new timer module. Now that I know where all of the cords go I can clean that up quite a bit.
The final thing completed is the installation of the CO2 monitor in the room itself. Itās got data logging so I can import the data to my app ā I just wish it had an API I could pull from directly. Iāll be upgrading this at some point.
I have some ideas on building a ānozzle ringā that will hang into my root chambers, I just need to test the theory and see if the hoses jumping causes too many issues. Only a few more items on the list, then itās time to get growing again.
Lovely. Very nice work.
Where did you source the enclosure?
