Pythium/Fusarium is not the same as Cyanobacteria (slime-snot covered stems and ends) Find out how I learned what this is and what to do

[George]

Quite confusing what happened to you , made some search and found this, just a bit stronger:

For plants with root rot or fungal infections, use 1 tablespoon (15 ml.) per cup of water.

Read more at Gardening Know How: Garden Uses For Hydrogen Peroxide: Will Hydrogen Peroxide Hurt Plants Hydrogen Peroxide For Plants - How To Use Hydrogen Peroxide In The Garden

and this:

How long do I soak roots in hydrogen peroxide?

Simply follow these steps:

1. Mix 50ml of Hydrogen Peroxide 3% – Oxygen PlusTM per 4 litres of water.
2. Soak the roots into this solution for about 6 hours.
3. Replant in a new container with clean, fresh potting mix.
4. Water with the same solution and leave in the shade for a few days.

that’s more than what you used, still wondering what happened to your plants. You will have to play with all this confusing data , hope a good recovery will give us good info about what to do in this cases, it’s better to experience this in other people’s plants and apply conclusions in yours …

[OriginalDankmaster96]

Well I finally had to give in. I was hoping I could scathe through and finish rooting what I had going. A few finally damped off. The few that had roots planted those. One NL dried up and kinked it’s stem. The rest that were newer just sitting in a dish w air stone.

Temperature don’t matter if you get sterile.

1. Buy NEW cloning collars (or get permaclone–they’re heat sterilizable)
2. Bleach your system w/ 10 mL/gal bleach for hours with the old collars in place. Put your air pump on a timer so the bleach flows in and out of the air line/stones.
3. After a 2 - 3 hours, replace the water w/ tap and insert the new (or sterilized permaclone) collars.
4. Next add Clear Rez by EZ Clone (OR UC Roots by Current Culture). Let it circulate WITHOUT pH adjustment OR additives while you take your cuttings. This allows the Clear Rez or UC Roots to surface sterilize each cutting and the cloner one last time. This is a good time to expose you pH meter so it get’s surface sterilize.
5. Finally, after a couple hours of circulating the Clear REz/UC roots solution, add bloom nutrients to approx 400 ppm.
6. Don’t mess with the cloner. Treat it like an open wound.

Things to consider:
–taking cuttings from faster growing tissue on your mothers. Don’t use those cutting that are real stiff due to lignification
–if your system is sterile, you can let your pump run continuously w/o worrying about temperatures. 78 - 88 *F is the goal!
–Bleach and pool shock are an alternative to Clear Rez or UC Roots, but require a little experience to work w/.
–peroxide IS NOT going to solve your problem.
–cut 1/4" below nodes

So I did more searching around and found this post that pertains to using UC Roots after bleaching cleaning cycle (which I’ve done a full 24hrs 1/4 cup) to sterilize cuts. So I’ve cycled UC roots for 24 hrs too and just took all new cuts, no adjustments or additives, only gel dip. Instead of the timer, I’m running continuously, which the pump raises temp to 75-78. Being in a colder A/C room I’ve gone back to a dome for higher humidity up to 99%

The hypothesis of the post is if the zone is sterile, warmer temps are more suitable. I can see how this will speed up the process, but I don’t have an idea how long is too long. I also don’t know in conjunction w duration of spraying continually to intermittent on a timer. The 400 ppm of bloom seems hot too as I’ve been under the impression lower is better. I’ve also ordered the Clear rez.

Anyway, I’d like to hear some thoughts about this post. I have rooted under the cooler zone temps but it’s so much longer. I know I have bad tap water for pathogens thus why I’ve stayed under 72 constantly dropping it down but it’s clear going the colder temp route isn’t fool proof to avoid pathogens. I’m thinking this will work better and faster IF I’m on top of sterility but the 2 variables that have wide discrepancy, warmer to root, but cooler for roots and spraying intervals during and after…

[OriginalDankmaster96]

Well after 1 week of going warmer 80-82 but completely maintaining sterility, it’s working. I decided to leave the last few of the old batch soaking in the bubble bath, guess what, the slime came back. It’s clear infection was spreading from cut to cut as it was being added to the unit. The warmer side does work better, but must stay on top to keep the environment consistently sterile. I’ve tweaked this and combined the Perma clone method w Hormex rooting concentrate added. The NL2 have just about rooted, so I’m seeing the speed has increased by going warmer. It’s proven to me that colder isn’t a way to avoid getting pathogens completely, which I have to say misinformation is responsible for giving that impression that staying cooler for rooting is better. I know it’s better for growing roots, but not propagation rooting itself makes it much longer. IF anyone is having the issues I’ve gone through, FOLLOW what I’ve posted above and you’ll be back in the swing of it.

[shag]

@OriginalDankmaster96

I know it’s better for growing roots, but not propagation rooting itself makes it much longer.

A very good point.

@OriginalDankmaster96

the slime came back. It’s clear infection

That shit will stay in your cloner if you don’t clean it well enough.
It gets into the inners of the pump and waits there to spring into action when the time is just right.

I use pool shock in mine let her run a few days if you have to.
I will go as heavy as 1 tablespoon per gallon.
Really I just grab some and toss it in there…LOL

[Foreigner]

A little warmer is better, for awhile. Long enough for them to root. I’m guilty of being too cold.

[shag]

BTW
The slime is most likely Pythium.

The ins and outs of PYTHIUM

Pythium Pythium is a recurring problem for all horticulture and it has been of particular significance in the Hydroponic systems now used for the production of lettuce and tomatoes. From our observations, it seems to be an increasing problem and we hear the symptoms described quite regularly. If this is the case it may be due to the increased use of re-circulating systems or, more worryingly, to the emergence of stronger strains of the fungus which are more resistant to the normal prophylactics…

[OriginalDankmaster96]

That was in the separate quarantine container, not cloner after cleaning. I thought maybe being closer to rooting they would recover in the h202 bubbler I made but too much time had passed by. Im learning my tap is highly prone to pythium regardless of higher or lower temp so cloning may have to be 100% bottled, which isn’t a big issue getting 30 gall a month drinking water delivered

I will get pool shock to throughly cycle clean afterward. I don’t think I’m seeing any browning. I’ve had a couple smashed stems from the collar, maybe a bit too long spraying caused a few to be soggy too, so I’ve had to cut a few more but not from mushy or tanning ends, but I’ll know from this week through next if I’m still in a rout. The NL2 has a lot of callouses so should be any day. As long as they root I’ll know it’s in the clear from the rot

Yeah I checked out the thread. Good info, especially the DO ratio to temp. Afternoon time can get it a little higher at 75, but at night I can get to 70. Im trying to stay between that zone as I get closer to the rooting point. Now that it’s cooler weather I don’t have to battle a W facing sun magnifying the heat during the day.

[shag]

@OriginalDankmaster96

maybe a bit too long spraying caused a few to be soggy too,

Just FYI I run my sprayers 24-7.

You can use regular bleach if you have no pool shock.
About a capful in 3-5 gallons of water, this is for when the clones are in the cloner.
This way after cleaning you keep the cloner sterile as possible.
You may need to add another capful in about 5 days after you start up the cloner too.
If the water starts to get funky change it out right away.

Good luck, you got this.

Here is a link to boost your knowledge a bit.

How to sanitize a hydroponic nutrient solution

[OriginalDankmaster96]

@shag What does it mean when a cut mushes in between the collar ? I’ll have to assume it means the rot is still present, not strangled by the collar it’s self ? I said I found one earlier, but another has me suspecting…

Also what do lots of callouses but no roots mean… ? It looks it’s there at the rooting stage, but still nothing… I don’t understand this stasis.

PS after you said drop a cap full of bleach in, I did. Measured out to 5ml. Later the water smelled awful. I dumped, wiped down w disinfectant wipes, rinsed and refilled

I don’t know what else to do. I’m beginning to think rot has permeated in the plastic or deeper in the pump if the cleaning isn’t working…perhaps a stronger bleach solution is needed ? Would the pool shock be better ? Maintain lower temp under 70 as long as possible ? Running out of options short of tossing the pump and getting a new one and if that’s not the fix, abandoning aero cloning. Not buying another unit

[shag]

@OriginalDankmaster96

What does it mean when a cut mushes in between the collar ? I’ll have to assume it means the rot is still present, not strangled by the collar it’s self ?

Sometimes they get damaged when we put them in there.
Quick question…Did ya clean the collars too?
If not then the funk could still be on the collar.
I put a sealed lid on my cloner put all the collars and everything in it and run the pool shock solution sometime for a day or even 2.

I have heard you can microwave some of em too.
Some get warped though so test one.

@OriginalDankmaster96

what do lots of callouses but no roots mean… ?

This can happen when you still have funk in the cloner.
The funk seems to keep the roots from striking.
I have had them do that and never produce a white root.

Sometime a quick fix can be dip em in rooting powder and put em in soil with bottom heat, but that is 50/50 but usually better than leaving them in the cloner to rot.

BTW
It is good to cut off those branching sites, not totally off, trimmed flush.
Any leftover material can rot feeding microbes.

What is your current cloner water temp? just an approximation.

[OriginalDankmaster96]

These are new collars, but I’m starting to think they may be damaging. It’s a tight fit in the site, which I have apply pressure to push in and the stem hole is large letting them slip low w thinner branches…could bad incompatible collars be the problem ?

I think I just realized I got sent hard collars and not soft.

82 bucks for perma clone collars

So it is still the indicator of rot present…ugh. I’ve decided to add 14 ml of UC roots…do you think a stronger dose might correct ?

Well at the start I was trying to maintain 78-82. My heat mat drove it up to 86 one time, but I dumped it after that. I took out the heat mat last week after the change, and let the pump warm it to 74. 74-75 during the day, 70-72 during night. Fillable ice packs drop it to 67-68, but slowly rises in between 73-75. Stays cooler if not a sunny day, but I notice it can rise quickly if it is a clear sunny day, so it’s a fight at times to cool it.

[shag]

@OriginalDankmaster96

it’s a fight at times to cool it.

Roots like it cool, but to sprout they like heat.
I would not use ice, it maybe shocking them into thinking it is winter ect.

I am usually good with the temp swing I get running just a pump.
If I wanna get real fancy I will use a fish tank heater, submersible of course.
That should keep temps real even for ya.
I have one and only use it if it gets real cold here.

Too hot of temps will usually end in the callous with no root strike.
So that may have been the issue with that.
86 is usually not too bad, but who knows.
Coulda been the ice too, hard to tell.

Use the UC roots as directed.

Oh, dunno how your putting things in the collar??
I spread open the collars real wide and slide them in the side.
It is way too easy to kink the stem going in from the top down.
You may be doing that already.
As long as the stem is not being damaged you should be fine.

BTW
I use the firm type of collars too.

Good luck
shag

[OriginalDankmaster96]

Thanks, you seem like you know the ins and outs of aero cloning. I gather it takes times, which I lack.

OK so as you were saying you just use the pump to warm. I’d like to use it that way by just keeping it on 24/7, what I don’t know and am not clear about is the constant spraying… Does this factor in stems turning mushy/brown or it has nothing to do w it ? Back to the rot issue ? This will tell me trying to cool or warm the water is irrelevant to continuous spraying

Next, by running the pump constantly rises temp, so where is the window (callous formation) from the root strike and dropping the temp down ? What I mean is, at what point are callouses being affected OR adjusting isn’t done until the actual strike happens, so water temp ranges cooler or warmer are regardless of strike happening ? It’s back to hidden residue. Which now leads to another Q, I try to run my fingers along the water line edges to see if I can feel anything slippery like slime. This to me can be confusing wet plastic, but what I want to know is basically should any slippery touch most likely be suspect of source ?

Well I was asking if you think the aggressive amount would help correct faster.

Yes, I’m opening from the side. Never tip down, but I don’t think the holes are gripping the stems well. Neither do I think they fit. I thought they might mold to the sites after sitting there but it still takes a lot of pulling and jiggling to release the collar. Regardless of firm or soft, the wrong collar could be the issue, yes ? I looked at TK collars, and just a sheet was half the price of PC and I thought I’m going to have to buy them again, so maybe it’s better in the long run.

For now I’ll stop using the ice and go back to continuous spray, letting the pump do the heating instead until I get the strike

[shag]

@OriginalDankmaster96

Does this factor in stems turning mushy/brown or it has nothing to do w it ?

24-7 spraying will not cause rot unless you are already contaminated

@OriginalDankmaster96

This will tell me trying to cool or warm the water is irrelevant to continuous spraying

The spray is heated enough by the pump, heat is important, cool not so much, just not too hot either.

@OriginalDankmaster96

any slippery touch

you are looking for a slime build-up like if you forget to brush your teeth.
Not slippery plastic.

@OriginalDankmaster96

Well I was asking if you think the aggressive amount would help correct faster.

No, you may burn em, so be careful.

@OriginalDankmaster96

Regardless of firm or soft, the wrong collar could be the issue,

I would not think so, but do what you feel is best.
People have used plain ol styrofoam.

@OriginalDankmaster96

For now I’ll stop using the ice and go back to continuous spray, letting the pump do the heating

Sounds like a solid plan.
Keep it clean as you possibly can.
Good luck brother.

[OriginalDankmaster96]

@shag Well, after running from about 71 to 76.8 continuously for 6 hrs, I’ve found 3 mushy stems and ends. The whole stem under the collar is soggy soft. It’s like running w no timer made things worse or it’s speeding up the rot. I guess I should abandon ship again than spin my wheels. It’s 2 weeks to the day. Do I double my bleach solution to clean, and as you said run it longer for 2 maybe even 3 days. I guess I should scrub every inch and crevice than relying on a wash cycle to sterilize ? Any other suggestions, short of being inside the pump and having to get a new one ?

[shag]

@OriginalDankmaster96

It’s like running w no timer made things worse or it’s speeding up the rot.

I guess it could have.
Any mush on the stem and it is time to toss it.

@OriginalDankmaster96

Do I double my bleach solution to clean

Double or triple it.
Make it strong as you feel comfortable.
I am not sure what to recommend to you but you can use a type of biocide to clean things to.
Just make sure to rinse very well.
Add some bleach to the cloner just before you add clones.
Clean cloner, and the water will have some disinfecting power to help fight off microbes.

Just soak the pump in the strong solution for a day or 2, then run it for a day or 2.
Then run it with the other biocide if you get one.
Something like for cleaning up after animals.
You may have to ask around, for something that will kill fungus and bacteria.
The bleach should do it, or hypochlorous acid ect.
I am trying not to make things to hard for ya.

As I said bleach should be enough but if you want to go the extra mile it can not hurt.
Dont forget to disinfect the lid outside as well as in.

Make sure absolutely nothing but water gets inside the cloner.
No dirt, no dust no nothing…
Clean the plug wire for the pump too.

If there is a cover on the back of the pump take it off, break it if you have to.
But make sure that will not ruin the pump, all mine are fine, but you never know??

I do see what you are saying about the mush mainly at the collar.
Kinda weird, just like you said.
Be careful not to kink the stem.
Probably not it, but I had to say it.

[OriginalDankmaster96]

@shag Is this biocide ? You said cleaning up after animal mess

Update : I ordered this…thoughts ?

24 hrs wash cycle 2 cups of bleach at 2 gall. I went only a 1/2 a cup last time. It was so strong I had to remove it from the room I’m in. I’m hoping this is like a shock treatment. Inserted my original collars so there’s a better seal, also flipping them so both sides get sprayed.

Next, I’ve stopped cycle, unscrewed manifold (back plate off last cycle) removed front cover too, put cover, manifold and pump to soak for at least 24 more hrs.

Put all back together and continue to run wash cycle

Rinsed w 135 degree water, then boiled a gall and put that in to cycle and 5 ml of UC Roots. My temp gauge hit 212 for 1 min, so I’m hoping that was like a flash pasteurization for extra measure.

Will throw out nozzles after all cleaning and add new ones. Those haven’t been changed since I got it last year…

Will wash and scrub original collars, lid, (both sides) holes and res w the biocide, then run it through a cycle.

As you said rinse well, so I’ll boil it again then run it for another 24 hr period and dump

Then I’ll start a pre hypochlorous treatment, fill w purified water, take cuts and sanitize them for a 24 hr cycle, then I’m going to take them out, cut under water, scrape surface end and dip in Hormex #8, wait about 30 mins to a hr for powder to absorb into the tissue before turning it back on. No timer or heat mat. Use dome for a few days, then keep it off if no wilt. I’m also going to use a clip fan to blow along the surface to help keep it drier above the collars. Do you think I can get away w using those collars temporarily until my PC collars arrive ?

I noticed you said keep it clean of dust and dirt, so does this include cat hair ? If so, I’m going to need to minimize my checking under lid and pulling out collars. This will hinder my ability to see ends clearly, but if it’s more important to keep hair out to stay clean then I have to hope everything is pretty much optimal most of the time. Just a low quick peek or to change it, any longer and hair strands will be in the water or on stems. I don’t know how important this is, but if it is, then I’ll have to hope every measure taken before the clock starts is perfection.

Anything else to add ? I really appreciate your guidance through this rout Hopefully I can return my appreciation w some TC x Xmas x NL 2 seeds

[shag]

@OriginalDankmaster96

Do you think I can get away w using those collars temporarily until my PC collars arrive ?

Yes, I use the same collars for over 5 years now.

BTW
The rooting Powder is for dirt.
I feel you need to switch to liquid, dunno if powder will work in a cloner.

Here is hormex liquid.

@OriginalDankmaster96

keep it clean of dust and dirt, so does this include cat hair ?

yes anything microbes can catch a ride on.
When I wanna check things I just pull a collar out not open the lid.

BTW
I am not sure what is in the first bottle, ingredients wise.
But the Oxine is a good one, kinda like strong bleach.
Bleach should be enough, but I am like you and wish to go the extra mile.
I will look to see the name on the product I use.

No real need to throw out the nozzles, just soak em real long.
Although they can get the funk in there and it is hard to get out.
So not a bad move.

Just so you know I put the collars right in the water solution, but I have extra lids.
Make sure to squeeze the collars to allow bleach to get deep inside like a sponge.
Be sure to squeeze em in the rinse water too, rinse well.

I am happy to help.
I have struggled with the funk in the past, so I feel for ya!

@OriginalDankmaster96

take cuts and sanitize them for a 24 hr cycle,

A quick dip should do it on the cuts, maybe not necessary if you have bleach ect in the clone spray water.

[OriginalDankmaster96]

Yup I already have the concentrate. The reason for powder is the woodiness of stems from air circulation, which Hormex is designed for in multiple strengths. Also I think powder might adhere and absorb better before stems are sprayed. Hormex does say their power can be used in hydro.

Great to hear the Oxine is the right choice. Yes I want to make sure it’s throughly eradicated, so going that extra step just in case the regular bleach didn’t get it. I think this covers all bases, I hope

Perhaps several sheets of Saran Wrap over the holes could work just as well

Ahhh I didn’t think of the squeezing part. Good to know. Although Permaclone collars will make that part of maintenance easier going forward…15 min micro soak done.

Yes, I just rinsed out for 2 days and now drying

I read the Oxine can treat water too. 1 oz at 30 gall so I got .75 for 2 gall…maybe that might be the extra measure to insure it stays out.

I can’t believe how much time I’ve been dead in the water for. Over 2 months. This is a struggle no doubt. You think you got it beat, only to keep appearing so stealthy like to keep setting back

And you’re right, it’s hard for any cuts to survive once it’s started. I do have 6 left of the 17 that seem perky in their jello cups of soil mix so I’m hoping the time isn’t completely wasted

Thanks again and hopefully it’s useful for anyone else stuck w the gunk

[AroundDaCorner]

Roots are grown in the dark such as dirt what are you doing with those plants