Pythium/Fusarium is not the same as Cyanobacteria (slime-snot covered stems and ends) Find out how I learned what this is and what to do

Sick Plants & Problems
#1

I don’t understand why I have a strain that shows clear translucent roots when I have another (NL#2) that shows white thick healthy roots in the same cloner. If I have healthy roots from one clearly this can’t be an issue w the cloner or am I mistaken ? Are there some strains that need to be finished rooting in a planting medium instead ? I’m baffled as it makes me believe I don’t have a pathogen issue w the unit

Water 72-74
Ph can range 6.0-6.7
Ppm 185
Timer 15 off/ 1 min on

Corn

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NL2

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Any takers at this ? Thanks

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#2

The gelatinous translucent one could be the beginning of a root disease, like root rot. Temperature of the water is a bit high, anything above 68 will help developing it. I would rinse that root in diluted Hydrogen peroxide … beer3|nullxnull

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#3

Can’t tell you what it is but if it were my decision I’d just put it in dirt and leave it be. Sink or swim.

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#4

Ahh @George Thanks for chiming in. But why are 2 showing healthy roots if there’s pythium growing in the unit ? Can you have a simultaneous of healthy and pathogenic occurrences ? Yes h202 added at 1ml per day. So soak the root directly in diluted in h2o2 ?

Yes @Foreigner 3 just got planted, so I’m w you. I’m probably going to just plant the last one than stress :crossed_fingers:

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#5

I see the bottom of the clone brownish, so the disease could have started there and that’s why the rest are fine. I would change the whole water (just in case) and soak the root and stem in h2o2 or wash it with this proportion …

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#6

Interesting…so rot still formed when I had my temps well under 68, which was inhibiting rooting and causing delay. I up my temps 72-74 by not adding frozen bottles, and still even w Hydroguard added Im still not free regardless of temps. Yes I change out every week now as precaution until I can clean w bleach solution. I’m guessing it’s lurking in there until I do the bleach cleaning and running it.

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#7

Some kind of spores survivie in water, so if there are droplets from that infected root falling in the reservoir, they could then infect the rest of clones. I would soak that clone and wash properly in diluted peroxide, change the water, clean the deposit and then put again that clone … beer3|nullxnull

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#8

Ahh I see…so each w brown stems/ends are probably contaminators. I’ve decided to plant everything that has brown/ bumps and remove those cuts so what’s left doesn’t get infected. The rest are green, so this should help I would think ?

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#9

I would sanitize those damaged clones before planting them, soil won’t heal them unless being treated before… beer|nullxnull

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#10

Ok, so I should pull them, wash the dirt off and then soak in h2o2…how long do you let them sit for ? 5-10 mins ?

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#11

If peroxide is correctly diluted you can keep them longer so it works out, until you see new healthy roots growing. Under lights they will have better chance to survive, once recovered you can put them in soil, patience is a plus in this case… beer2|nullxnull

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#12

Sorry I’m confused…do I just leave the cut stems soaking freely in a cup of solution or can’t I just do a short soak in solution and then put them back in dirt cups to finish rooting ?

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#13

Sorry, I thought they would have larger stems so they can stand up in a glass, if they’re shorter just clean and soak them some minutes…

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#14

Alright, I’m doing like you suggest…I’ve made a foil top so they can hang and of course keeps light and debris out. I’ve made the full cup dilution w purified water no ph adjustment. Now how long before I need to change it ?

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#15

Ol’ George always beats me to the punch.
When I see this at my house that is what I think.

What do I do with it?
A peroxide bath could not hurt.

That is usually what I do.
Once the roots are under a hard attack they seldom recover properly.
I have left em in the cloner and they sprouted all new roots, but it took a while.
They may or may not sprout.

Prevention is the real answer to this one.

I have seen it, ugly roots and healthy roots in the same spray water.

I set my cloner up with a cleaning solution and let it run overnight.
Swap out the water and toss things in.

I should let George answer here, he has done a fine job thus far.
If you washed em in peroxide and rinsed em off, they should be ready to plant.

Oh, and those bumps are not a bad thing, the plant will make roots from the bumps.
Brown color on the otherhand is a bad sign, soft mushy stems is another to look out for.

Good luck, I am sure ol’ @George will be round shortly.

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#16

Needed to zz|nullxnull, glad to see OG is never unattended :grin:.

@OriginalDankmaster96 I would let them soak until recovered (new growth and roots), but planting them could also be a good option. I am always cautious and give them better chances. It’s upon your choice, in case prudence guides you, change water every three days or so … beer3|nullxnull

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#17

Sigh :pensive: IF only experiences didn’t shape misperception in some cases, a remedy can be done. Back when I first started up, w a cheap DWC from Amazon a month into it I had the rot starting in my Chocolate Haze and Colombian Gold. I’ve read about hydrogen peroxide and so I added 2 tbs 30ml to 1 gall…not more than 10 mins later, complete shock. Everything limp and loss of turgor…I had to act fast by planting in dirt. They all recovered, but since that incident I’ve been fearful of using hydrogen peroxide and reading the table for 1 gall at 1/2 CUP has me conflicted when I saw what 2 tbs did to under a month seedlings. I may try a test after I finish, that way if something happens no big deal. I’ve added an air stone to the cup. It’s large so the stems are immersed in bubbles. I’m hoping this speeds up recovery.

@George OG’s resident plant diagnostics :+1:

@shag Thats quite a bit of insight. It’s probably best to treat, than left untreated. If I wasn’t so afraid of using it, I could have solved this sooner, but I thought products like Hydroguard and UC roots would be the safer prevention instead. I see the real preventative measure is regular cleaning and routine change out. While we’re on the subject I’m not clear on the bleach amount to use once I can. I’m about 2 gall. Looks like a cloner can’t be in constant use, but an overnight break isn’t bad. I just have to remember not to keep sticking new cuts in without a cleaning for an overnight. Yes brown can be confusing, it may just be temp or could be rot. I’ve seen slightly tan colored do fine, but in general I know it’s not good to have it. I think I might be inclined to treat when green has faded out for earlier preventative than be under the impression it’s just temp fluxes.

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#18

Quite confusing what happened to you icon_e_confused|nullxnull, made some search and found this, just a bit stronger:

For plants with root rot or fungal infections, use 1 tablespoon (15 ml.) per cup of water.

Read more at Gardening Know How: Garden Uses For Hydrogen Peroxide: Will Hydrogen Peroxide Hurt Plants Hydrogen Peroxide For Plants - How To Use Hydrogen Peroxide In The Garden

and this:

How long do I soak roots in hydrogen peroxide?

Simply follow these steps:

  1. Mix 50ml of Hydrogen Peroxide 3% – Oxygen PlusTM per 4 litres of water.
  2. Soak the roots into this solution for about 6 hours.
  3. Replant in a new container with clean, fresh potting mix.
  4. Water with the same solution and leave in the shade for a few days.

that’s more than what you used, still wondering what happened to your plants. You will have to play with all this confusing data :sweat_smile:, hope a good recovery will give us good info about what to do in this cases, it’s better to experience this in other people’s plants and apply conclusions in yours … :grin:

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#19

Well I finally had to give in. I was hoping I could scathe through and finish rooting what I had going. A few finally damped off. The few that had roots planted those. One NL dried up and kinked it’s stem. The rest that were newer just sitting in a dish w air stone.

Temperature don’t matter if you get sterile.

  1. Buy NEW cloning collars (or get permaclone–they’re heat sterilizable)
  2. Bleach your system w/ 10 mL/gal bleach for hours with the old collars in place. Put your air pump on a timer so the bleach flows in and out of the air line/stones.
  3. After a 2 - 3 hours, replace the water w/ tap and insert the new (or sterilized permaclone) collars.
  4. Next add Clear Rez by EZ Clone (OR UC Roots by Current Culture). Let it circulate WITHOUT pH adjustment OR additives while you take your cuttings. This allows the Clear Rez or UC Roots to surface sterilize each cutting and the cloner one last time. This is a good time to expose you pH meter so it get’s surface sterilize.
  5. Finally, after a couple hours of circulating the Clear REz/UC roots solution, add bloom nutrients to approx 400 ppm.
  6. Don’t mess with the cloner. Treat it like an open wound.

Things to consider:
–taking cuttings from faster growing tissue on your mothers. Don’t use those cutting that are real stiff due to lignification
–if your system is sterile, you can let your pump run continuously w/o worrying about temperatures. 78 - 88 *F is the goal!
–Bleach and pool shock are an alternative to Clear Rez or UC Roots, but require a little experience to work w/.
–peroxide IS NOT going to solve your problem.
–cut 1/4" below nodes

So I did more searching around and found this post that pertains to using UC Roots after bleaching cleaning cycle (which I’ve done a full 24hrs 1/4 cup) to sterilize cuts. So I’ve cycled UC roots for 24 hrs too and just took all new cuts, no adjustments or additives, only gel dip. Instead of the timer, I’m running continuously, which the pump raises temp to 75-78. Being in a colder A/C room I’ve gone back to a dome for higher humidity up to 99%

The hypothesis of the post is if the zone is sterile, warmer temps are more suitable. I can see how this will speed up the process, but I don’t have an idea how long is too long. I also don’t know in conjunction w duration of spraying continually to intermittent on a timer. The 400 ppm of bloom seems hot too as I’ve been under the impression lower is better. I’ve also ordered the Clear rez.

Anyway, I’d like to hear some thoughts about this post. I have rooted under the cooler zone temps but it’s so much longer. I know I have bad tap water for pathogens thus why I’ve stayed under 72 constantly dropping it down but it’s clear going the colder temp route isn’t fool proof to avoid pathogens. I’m thinking this will work better and faster IF I’m on top of sterility but the 2 variables that have wide discrepancy, warmer to root, but cooler for roots and spraying intervals during and after…

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#20

Well after 1 week of going warmer 80-82 but completely maintaining sterility, it’s working. I decided to leave the last few of the old batch soaking in the bubble bath, guess what, the slime came back. It’s clear infection was spreading from cut to cut as it was being added to the unit. The warmer side does work better, but must stay on top to keep the environment consistently sterile. I’ve tweaked this and combined the Perma clone method w Hormex rooting concentrate added. The NL2 have just about rooted, so I’m seeing the speed has increased by going warmer. It’s proven to me that colder isn’t a way to avoid getting pathogens completely, which I have to say misinformation is responsible for giving that impression that staying cooler for rooting is better. I know it’s better for growing roots, but not propagation rooting itself makes it much longer. IF anyone is having the issues I’ve gone through, FOLLOW what I’ve posted above and you’ll be back in the swing of it.

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