Defoliation vs No(little) defoliation

Me too I love variety and in a small space like fish said sog with clones if you use 2 gallon bags 16 to 20 plants and multiple strains

I once grew 40 clones in the same area in 5inch sq pots stared with small cuts only 1 week of veg after rooted , then flipped to 12/12 I lollipoped each plant
A lot of watering but approx 1 oz per plant
Too much work for me lol

Scrog net was fun 9 @ 3 gallon bags 9 different varieties and up to 1/4 lb each some more some less ! Longer veg time if I remember 2 maybe 3 weeks

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So you’re an arboreal stripper? Interesting career path, good way to pay the bills I guess

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I defoliated these through stretch and stopped around 30 days to give them something to go into flower with.


Hopefully I’ll get away with a acceptable rh% if not I’ll remove leafs nearer the end of flowering.

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Well…the pay isn’t mulch…

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A good pluck makes everyone feel better so is it really about the pay?

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Cannabis is a C3 plant so it looses a considerable amount of carbon to respiration under current ambient atmospherical CO2 conditions. Photosynthesis happens mostly within the leaves, inside the thylakoid lumen of the chloroplasts. The other things that happens there is a processing of NO3-, NH4+ and S. It’s the xylem that distributes most water up from the roots to the leaves, most of it evaporates as a means to cool leaves and do gas exchange via open stomatas to let CO2 in. Once done these, and the photosynthates, get loaded into the phloem, which can distribute what’s needed bidirectionally, though it depends on specific gradients caused by the aforementioned source/sink-mechanism(s).
But unlike the xylem, leaves consists of living cells, these need energy to stay alive, so their mitochondrias consume some of the produced energy to stay alive.

Now there’s a point in a low-light scenario for a leaf where the carbon-fixation and its loss by photo- & darkrespiration cancel each other mutually out - this is called “the light compensation point”. My only source, which doesn’t include a scientific reference, tells me for Cannabis this would be 150umol/m^2/s. Usually for C3 plants this would be lower by factor approx. 5-6. Does somebody here have a better source maybe, that would be nice to know.

This could mean that in an indoor setting, where PPFD greatly diminishes with distance (in comparison with an outside grow) these lower defoliation could be meaningful, but we shouldn’t forget that a quantummeters sensors is actually not able to monitor all photons arriving at a measuring point, not at all. It basically just tells you how strong the stream from one direction is, and totally neglects the other ambient diffuse light coming from the other directions, where the sensor is “blind”.
Now outside as good as each and any leaf will be able to positively generate carbohydrates for the plants to acquire more biomass.

However, there is not always a linear relationship with photosynthesis and yield, although there is no other more significant relationship with yield than actually photosynthesis. The thing is that plants usually have a surplus of energy at their hands and so it may not always matter that much if they loose a fraction of it. This is especially true in some artificial setups like hydroponics where they will still loose quite much to feed the microbes, which may just be wasted in a bucket of water instead.

Also, leaves do get old and then gradually loose their ability to do proper photosynthesis. Chloroplasts have several stages, when the leaves are very new and still yellow, it’s because they are still filled with etioplasts which differentiate at the first day of being in contact with PAR light, later these chloroplasts turn into dysfunctional gerontoplasts. All these cell organelles can be broken apart by the plant and then contribute a good amount of energy, and essential nutrition, to the plant. So a heavy defoliation also deprives a plant of its “emergency” nutes. It’s stands to reason that the so-called “nitrogen use efficiency” would drop by doing so.

It is also noteworthy that damaged, dysfunctional leaves can still harvest light but the energy creates dangerous reactive-oxygen species instead, which can bleach a leaf from the inside out (it’s essentially the same process as if too much light was applied and non-photochemical quenching/fluorscence couldn’t regulate enough anymore…). So this is the main reason why perennial plants need to get rid of old leaves (they do drop from alone) once most major content has been retranslocated.

Then there is also the spectral discrimination, a dense canopy leaves usually just green and darkred, but red and especially blue, is quickly deplete. Now there is some longgoing controversy about this but one cannot deny the effects of UV/blue light on plant phototropism and photomorphogenesis mediated by some bluelight receptors. These may also be responsible for a gene expression to increase some Cannabinoids, predominantly THC, to a tad higher levels. Maybe it is this why defoliation can help bring a better quality over sheer dry harvest mass? (We really should tell these scientists they better be focusing on the netto amount of cannabinoids and terpenes grown and not only the raw MJ to get a better comparison).

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@Rodent_Rampage Very scientific sir, i notice that too outdoor plants tend to shed less leaves then indoors, maybe because it’s still producing energy for the plant since it gets sunlight from all angles, doesn’t make sense that the plant produces leaves for them to be yanked off because to whole point of the plant producing thc is to repel insects and animals. There’s intelligence in the plants design that people don’t take into account.

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If you were my hired hand, I’d keep the shears locked up in the shed and you with a hoe weeding in the field. I’d never get any fruit with such ill founded, misguided opinions.

Buds don’t produce “energy”, food, for tissue production.

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Maybe it’s because they are getting proper nutrition rather than some cannabis specific, forum driven hype regarding switching to some “bloom” food.

Always post a link for reference, please.

Sure, is there anything specific you’d like to have referenced? Because I wrote this out of the top of my head… but I could go quickly into my archive, though some is also from hardcopy books that may not even be in your language…

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Since you like to nitpick everyone I’ll nitpick you a bit. This plant here has classic symptoms of N toxicity with the leaves starting to claw from the top. If this is what 50+ years of growing experience gets then I would suggest people not follow your advice as gospel.

There’s no need to be constantly abrasive and nitpicking everything people post and demand that people provide you with links instead of searching yourself. It seems to me that you’re somewhat set in your ways and think you know better than everyone else because of your “long and illustrious” career growing every plant in existence.

There’s always room to learn from other people. If you close yourself off you’re gonna be in the same place you’ve been for years thinking you know better than everyone else.

How long you’ve been growing has no relationship to how much knowledge you have. Or how good your product is.

Back on topic of this thread I personally don’t defoliate anymore. Mostly from a labour perspective. It just takes too long. I can imagine it scaled up costing insane amounts of money to hire people to do it. With all the places where weed prices are currently at a race to the bottom) it would prob make less sense to do things that will majorly add to the cost of production. Obviously this matters much less for home growers (which I am). I definitely don’t look down on people for doing what works for them though.

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South Texas heat. Moisture stress, a ditty I wrote years ago and plagarized by many. :rofl:

Plenty of posers in these here parts, pardner.

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I see a vivid influss of the forum where he comes from, here we do things in a different way :roll_eyes:. No offence intended, just a remark … beer3|nullxnull

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I demand documentation. On what, I don’t care. But documentation.

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@Rodent_Rampage I nominate this for best post of the thread, that was a masterful explanation

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I belong to a few gardening websites and when someone posts something as fact the admin always asks for a link. It’s just good business and keeps the flakes from taking over.

I do botany. If you post content such that it appears, reads, that it came from some PhD out of Cornell U. and can’t back it up with a link, then you lose credibility with me.

Not that it matters… :laughing:

Now, go play jacks, jack…

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I’m going to run out of tears crying about it.

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Snowflakes always have plenty of moisture when they have a meltdown. You’ll be fine.

Oh dear another diminutive buzzword. I demand to see documentation on that too.

I will refrain from calling you names because I have, you know, class.

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