Defoliation vs No(little) defoliation

You’d prob have a heart attack walking into my grow. I run 70% RH in flower and like 80% in veg :crazy_face: :joy:

I think defoliation is much more useful for indoor than outdoor because height is not going to reduce the power of the sun like it will with an indoor light like hps or led. With indoor light if you move your light from 1 foot away to 2 feet away it will spread out 4x more but also be 1/4 of the strength it was at 1 foot. In order to have the same effect with the sun’s light you’d have to move 75 million km away since the distance is twice that.

I’ve also heard some interesting info on some podcasts I’d been listening to lately also. One of them was saying that the time you defoliate is important because if you do it too late (in flower) it could cause some issues. Because taking a bunch of leaves off reduces transpiration it also will reduce calcium mobility (calcium moves through the plant with the transpiration stream) making it potentially more susceptible to rot. This combined with flushing (I don’t flush a lot of people still do though) which will lower Ca even further can make it even more of an issue.

Something else I found interesting was that since you are massively reducing transpiration after a massive defoliation, your plant will in turn uptake less water so changing your irrigation based on that temporarily (feed less for awhile) would be helpful to avoid humidity spikes from the media staying wet longer than usual.

On some podcast (I think Josh Neulinger) was saying how he’s been to so many facilities that were having major issues with PM being everywhere were running RH levels of 45-50. Mentioned that in Ag industry PM is known as a dry mold and needs lower humidity for the spores to be able to desiccate and spread elsewhere. When the RH was raised to 70 it went away and never came back.

I’ve also seen some leaves in my grow room with water droplets on them which isn’t a good thing. I’ve slowly but surely been trying to wrap my brain around the differences/ relationships between relative humidity, absolute humidity, dew point etc. Air at a higher temp can hold much more humidity than lower temps so a RH of 60 at lets say 100f will hold more water vapor than 80% at 55f. I’ve noticed in my grow room that I have major temp swings from lights on to lights off (like 85f to 69-70f) I suspect that this might be at least in part responsible for rot issues I’ve had. I’m gonna work on keeping my room warmer during lights off so I don’t get any kind of condensation. I feel like this grow I’ve already noticed a reduced severity so hopefully a step in the right direction.

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Exactly what I’ve been seeing , now with my new set up a good bit less

It seems better once I defoliate and increase air flow
But I had to add fans to do so

For this time of year on the east coast in my room the temperature at night it’s 55 ish and day time 78 at 58 % rh ( I pump air from the house to help )

Paps

Ps love the chart neo :+1::+1::+1:

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I have a question for you guys. I think everyone’s in agreement there needs to be some sort of defoliation done as we are not cavemen living in the old ways. However as has been brought up. Is timing more crucial than anything for the amount of pruning. I was always under the impression that after the stretch, when buds are in full production, that it’s not good to remove a lot of fan leaves as it may hurt the overall yield. Now I take leaves that are blocking light all throughout the flower cycle, but I don’t do any serious pruning after week 3. What are your guys thoughts about timing of pruning?

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Anytime is a good time but i usually go after stretch so I can better identify what I want to remove.

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Hi there so your a leaf plucker too so I guess we’re leaf plucker anonymous now lol

I truly believe in a good pruning 1 week before I switch to flower then defoliating on week 1, 3and week 5 although during week five I defoliate very lightly, and from that point on I will remove leaves that are blocking light and air I try to bend first or cut the fingers down

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What are ur temps during flower?

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85f during lights on but at night time it drops pretty significantly (as low as 69) so I’m working on keeping it warmer. I think with that high humidity at that temp + the steep temp drop when lights go out I’m risking condensation.

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I used to flower at 70-75% rh and 86-90f in the tropics. Worked well for me. Did quite a few runs keeping the vpd in check.

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And of course…I defoliate from veg through flower…:joy:

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FFS. Here we go again… everyone insisting their way is the only way should just get a private island together and fight it out to the death. With tigers. Definitely with tigers. Whoever wins can come back here and crow about their victory and how it proves they’re right until we ostracize them, because their tigers won’t be able to reach us through the internet anyway.

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True indeed, the lower the buds in the canopy the more premature they are and smaller too. No question about that. This is however not the case with apples and oranges which confuses me.

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You can’t compare apples and oranges.

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Then why does a bud need direct light to harden and an orange doesn’t?

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You’re comparing a flower to a fruit, so you can’t draw conclusions based on the ripening of one vs. the other.
Also, the premise is flawed:

It does not. The earlier discussion touched on the production of auxins directed toward the apical growth. Denser buds occur closer to the top of the plant, not because of light, but because of plant biology.
I think that there is an aspect of defoliation that is an urban legend/partial truth: plants grow bigger buds when defoliated, due to better light penetration.
I think it’s more likely that physiological shifts in carbohydrate storage mechanisms explain part of the story. Additionally, cannabis buds are capable (albeit to a lesser degree compared to leaves) of photosynthesis. If a plant has reached sexual maturity and is flowering, it would seem to follow that it would assign biological preference to bud production after leaves are removed, based on the processes going on at this stage of the plant life, as well as to increase the likelihood of reproduction, as well as increased bud production to ensure photosynthetic survival.
Just some thoughts I’ve had.

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I allways defoliate at day 21and 42 and non stop in between as @Papalag said if its blocking it has to move
And for information i have a perpetual high density sog
Between 360 and 400 small plants flowering under 1 (one) 600 watt
Everybody have its own way that he she have perfected over time or that works for them
I dont understand why people start negative discussions, each system, country, environment ect ect has its tricks and what works for you does not mean it works for everybody
Lets stay positive and pick up some tips of other growers and share ouwer knowledge respectfully
Just my 2 cents

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With due respect Doug, I don’t think there’s anything to be proud about here.

The “Question of Defoliation?” remains unanswered, and a member was shunned.
My observation was that he gave as good as he got, and discourtesy was about equal on both sides. He didn’t show proper respect and he got pugged. Rough justice, but that doesn’t make it pretty.

I understand that the OG Mods are Bouncers, not judges. And in that role, the Troublemaker, gets tossed into the street. Mayhaps he had it coming for being obnox, but it isn’t a proud moment for anyone. Especially when he obviously has some life experience to back up his contentions.

Sorry, just venting, but this is the second time recently where an egotistical but knowledgeable “Old Coot” was chased off by pack behavior. It is beneath OG.

AND, I do have an opinion on Defoliation, Pls don’t crucify me…

For the record, Here’s the Summary of a highly controlled side by side grow with sibling clones from a grower (Nebula Haze) that I deeply trust. This is what I do when the grow allows it.

Summary of Cannabis Defoliation Side-by-Side Experiment | Grow Weed Easy

Final Thoughts on Flowering Stage Defoliation

So, what do I think about flowering stage defoliation after this test? In many ways, it confirmed what I already suspected. Defoliation seems to increase yields and improve the overall quality/tightness of buds. I had heard growers say that defoliation might increase THC, but it was still a surprise to see that play out in the results for all 3 clones. If all 3 clones produced higher THC in the defoliation tent, that’s not definitive but it is pretty good evidence supporting the idea that defoliation may increase THC percentage.

Defoliation tent was the clear winner in my mind.

  • Higher yields
  • Higher THC
  • Higher quality buds

But why/how does defoliation work? I don’t know for certain, but here is my ideas so far

  • Without as many leaves, the buds get more exposure to direct light, causing those buds to fatten more
  • Defoliation removes leaves in shadow and buds that will never develop, so the plant can put all energy towards developing the best buds.
  • What’s causing the higher levels of THC? My two theories so far (could be a combination of both):
    • Plants that get brighter light produce higher levels of THC, and buds get more light when plants are defoliated
    • Defoliation stresses the plant, and the stress response is what increases THC

That is as close to “Truth” as I’m likely to find, and it says that "Selective Defol just prior to switching to Flower 12/12 lighting and three weeks later results in a better outcome.

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I appreciate you Grouchy

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I put up that study way earlier in the thread but wasn’t taken seriously by oub as it clearly states defoliation works and had side by side to back it up. Oub just wanted to come in this thread and point out how much of a superior grower he is to everyone. Not to have a discussion on defoliation. He simply came in this thread to tell everyone it doesn’t work and to name call and fight with anyone who disagree with him, even if they had studies to back it up and all he had was I’ve grown everything forever. That got old pretty quick.
Does suck cause he is obviously a good grower and we could use his knowledge but without the attitude and superiority complex

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Hahahaha wow nailed it

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Good point my friend!

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