"Yes, I really do need all these plants." 🤣 Autoflowers, photoperiods, bugs, breeding, & a Humboldt heirloom (journal)

[RainToday]

So happy to be able to share with you my favorite plant adventure for the last 3 years, growing and breeding cannabis. I have a 6’x9’ (2x3m) room to grow in, instead of a bedroom closet. I also have a space in the big bathroom for my boys. I can’t grow outside legally here, but inside is a permitted medical grow.

My next grow will be an attempt to germinate and grow some seeds from plants our family friends were growing in Humboldt back in 1997. There’s life in them, but it’s going to need some coaxing.

But first I’ve got to finish up seed production from this run, so I can kill the bad bugs.

I’ll try to give a balanced highlights report each time - something that delighted me, an interesting observation, and something argh-worthy. .

I coaxed 4 last pistils out of my Pine autoflower, which I’ve already pollinated and harvested seeds from once with a grapefruit photoperiod. I pollinated them with a male grown from the Pine auto’s own seeds, gotten by pollinating the preflowers long ago with a pineapple home cross auto. Supremely delighted to make this work, going to do it again more successfully with better planning ahead.

I notice some autoflowers have a very strong and final “end” to their life, while others will grow a few more leaves and some new flowers.
My pineapple autos from homegrowncannabisco are on one extreme - they will often keep revegging and reflowering for months. Most of the others I’ve grown would throw a few extra rounds of pistils and foxtail a bit. My BB#3 from Dark Owl (loved that plant!) refused to even make a second round of pistils.

I’m going to shut down my perpetual for a couple weeks in order to exterminate pests. I’ve tried good bugs several ways, and they’re just not able to exterminate the thrips, spider mites, and brown scale insects that I’ve accumulated. I do have a large dragonfruit and a couple other plants that can’t be removed, but everything else will be gone and I’ll drench those three in spinosad several times. It doesn’t bother ladybugs or spiders, and with nothing else left to eat maybe those predators will take care of any stray bad bugs. Maybe I should germinate some companion plants to lure any dormant bad bugs out, and then dump them outside on the compost pile before any of the bugs can reproduce. Creative / unusual advice welcome of course, but no need repeat anything googleable. I’ve done a bunch of reading already and know the regular options.

[RainToday]

Seedy satisfaction! 8-9 days post-pollination, and I can see seeds plumping up on my Pine auto that I crossed with its own progeny.

Also harvested seeds from a cross of male Grapefruit with a female grown from seeds from family friends down in Humboldt.

The interesting thing about these is they came from seeded yet still highly potent bud. I’ve noticed in the modern strains I’ve grown that some plants’ trichome production is impacted much more than others by pollination.

These folks have some severe health issues and while they started growing this 45+ years ago as top shelf sale bud, over the years they’ve kept growing but only for themselves.

They started down the path of least resistance, which is keeping seeds from hermaphrodism, but they still focused hard on potency. That’s a lot of generations, and this stuff smokes like high 20%'s THC, even when it’s full of seeds.

I grew out a dozen plants, and this was one of only two that didn’t herm on me. I took the herms through to harvest, and indeed their somewhat seeded but was still highly potent. I failed at cloning the other non-herm. I’ve got seeds though, including from a pretty purple one. Anyway, it’s a fascinating trait. Not sure it has any broad application since smoking seed coats is super harsh, and de-seeding is a giant PITA, but fascinating to me.

[RainToday]

Speaking of plants that get thoroughly frosty and high THC in spite of a pile of seeds, here’s what I trimmed up tonight.

Test smoke says it’s very potent, probably mid 20%s, and the buds were firm and dense with nice sparkle, even though it was quite seedy. I had an ADHD moment with pollen and accidentally pollinated a bunch of stuff. So it’s crossed with either a Grapefruit photoperiod, or else one of a couple of lovely autoflower crosses I made.

It was a fine and healthy plant, but it reeks of cat piss, not mimosas so it’s a cull from my home breeding because I really dislike that smell. I grew 4 Mimosas I think, 2 smelled of cat pee, and 2 had some fruity / citrus. Post dibs and how many if you want the seeds. US only please for now. The Mimosa seeds and the Grapefruit male were from HomeGrownCannabisCo. The potential autoflower daddies are a couple generations of home crosses mostly from more artisanal breeders.

[RainToday]

Three traits I’m breeding for showed up unexpectedly -

First, the plants that make epic levels of frosty trichomes in spite of adverse conditions, and it’s on a deliciously pineapple smelling autoflower plant. First couple pictures show her. She was a volunteer in my little not-usually-cannabis bed. Competing with the beans and cucumbers and got pollinated very early on in life when I let loose a Pine male to do the rest of the girls. Unbelievable frost, super sticky, and not a bad size in massive overcrowding with too high pH and lower nutrients. I just snipped the tip off the bud to dry for a smoke sample, got to test the THC, hopefully it’s reasonably strong too, but I want to keep the rest of those seeds developing for the future.

Second trait is a growth one. Insanely fast growth to very large size. I’ve had two of my pineapple autoflowers do it now, out of maybe 24 purchased seeds. Their pineapple scent wasn’t as good, but they were just as potent as the rest and their growth imperative was out of this world.

One of them I transplanted from a small pot, and then bent double twice to try to keep it in check. Leaves bigger than my hands, and a huge plant that finished only a couple weeks behind the others at double their size or more. Unfortunately, I got very few seeds.

It seemed likely the genetics for it were around in some sort of recessive form though. I’m pointing to one plant in a group that I stunted which seems to be showing that trait. It’s much larger than the others, they’re actually a slightly different cross, but the others all look pretty normal for autos grown in tiny pots like this and water stressed. That one in front though is showing its commitment to growth in spite of it all. I think I’ll try moving it to a bigger pot, harvesting the mature seeds and seeing if it puts on a fresh flush of growth.

The last photos are some closer shots I took of those small, stressed, pollinated autoflowers. Nothing worth smoking there, which is what I’d expect and why I’m excited about that first frosty girl.

[RainToday]

Chopped the last few plants, got a fine little pile of seeds off the last two with enough nice brown ones to grow the next generation.

My anti-pest rampage seems to be a success. I’ve got a few hundred ladybugs in there with my little spiders eating any pests that escaped me.

Next up, soil re-amendment and a germination attempt on my old 1997 seeds.

[BigDaddyDrew]

I too have been fighting pests, Fungus gnats in my case- they are greatly reduced already, I also have a host of predators, the Jumping spiders being my favorites… One thing I think missed early on, Alot of my reading suggested that auto’s don’t “need much nutrition”…I think I can say that’s utter BS… Specifically i was looking at @Going2fast 's soil— I believe it was 2 cups of 10-10-10 mixed with compost at the bottom, and then using miricale grow organics ontop… Thats seems like a tremendous amount of fertilizer-- my little pots had nothing- just a little top dress of 3-4-6 once a week… It now seems obvious that in the small pots there was a nutrition shortage as well…

[RainToday]

Ooo! I wanted jumping spiders, they are my favorite spiders! But couldn’t find any in the garden earlier in the year to bring in. I’ll keep an eye when it warms up again. I have itty bitty web spinners, but they’re very shy.

Yes, cannabis needs a ton of nutrients. If you’re a vegetable gardener, I think they’re like corn or squash, just ridiculous nutrient needs. It is possible to overdo it, but the only way I managed it with “whole foods” fertilizer products rather than concentrates was amending a solo cup with compost that was 50% chicken poo.

I have trouble keeping them fed in what’s usually about 7gallons of soil if they take more than about 10 weeks to get to harvest. I’m trying increasing the soil amount again for this next run. Filling all the pots fully, and using a couple I had for potatoes that are much larger.

[RainToday]

Does it matter if my fresh worm castings include worms (and springtails)? @JohnnyPotseed tagging you hoping for your input since the worm castings is from your thread.

Started germination for 75 of my old seeds today, from 1997. Previous plain water soak of 20 seeds with no prep showed tails from 3, but none survived. I’ve tried giving them to folks to help, but that hasn’t worked out, so I’m trying it myself, with the about 250 I have left.

I read up and made some choices. Fyi, normally I just float seeds in my filtered tap water then straight into living soil. Works great.

First up, I shook them in a tube of fine sand paper until my arm was sore. They look minimally buffed. Then I shaved bits if the ridged edge or tip off about a third of them.

Second, I soaked them all for 15min in 1% hydrogen peroxide / 99% filtered tap water (which is pH 7) at about 75 degrees.

Now they are soaking (floating) overnight or maybe up to 24h in a about 2/3 cup of filtered water with a teaspoon of BioAg Ful-Power, and a quarter teaspoon of molasses. It is in a cupboard that stays about 72 degrees.

My worm bin is outside on the porch, where its cold now (I’ll get them their under tower heater & bubble wrap cozy soon), maybe 40 degrees. I scooped a clamshell full from the lower tiers and put it in the closet to warm up.

Looking for advice on the next step. I could put together a second clamshell with just about any standard condiments and split the seeds, or just all in with the worms this time.

These are treasures, lovely Hindu Kush stuff with some purple phenos. Things my parents and their neighborhood grew since the 70’s. I’ve got some of their modern progeny, and they’re lovely, but herm tendencies were allowed to flourish. Interestingly they are mighty potent even seeded, but no one prefers smoking seeded weed, so I’d love to revive the old lines. If I can get some of these plants going I’ll do as big an OP event as I can manage and then share the seeds.

Thanks for any support, all suggestions welcomed.

[JohnnyPotseed]

Well, I gotta say… lol ya took what I said and ran with it, to your own music! But sounds like a plan. The Springtails are predators that eat bad pests, so that shouldn’t be a problem. However, I’d pull the worms out of the castings, not thatIi think they’re bad… just to keep em from dying on ya (that’s IF you do like me, and just mix the casting into your soil potted with the babies. The water will do em in)
I’ll check in and see how things go for you.
I always tell folks to use anything, nothing, or just some things I say, up to them (you, in this case) glad to see someone trying out a mixture of methods…

[JohnnyPotseed]

BTW I see you have a bad pest problem there, brother!
Have you seen the thread i did on a DIY ‘one-n-done’ for Mites, thips, and Aphids?
https://overgrow.com/t/mites-thrips-aphids-one-n-done-with-pics/

All food grade ingredients, harmless to use on plants all the way up to harvest.
But… kills on contact! Eggs, nymphs, adults… all of em.

[RainToday]

Thank you very much!!

Worm death - so you’re saturating the worm castings then? I was envisioning just worm-bin level wet, but looking at your pics again it looks more like soup. I might try to get away with just worm-safe wetness. There’s too many baby worms to remove, and I don’t have any fully mature wormless castings.

I guess I could buy some finished castings, or maybe get the bottom layer wet and wait for the worms to relocate on their own, then skim them off with the top soil. Hmm.

Yes, I did see that DIY ‘one-n-done’ thread, read a bunch of it and it sounds great. I think I’ve killed all the pests just now. I stopped my perpetual, sprayed the few plants that stay alternately with isopropyl & spinosad, and then added literally about 800 ladybugs to eat any pests I missed. The little spiders are still there too. If anything comes back my plan is to make up some of your ‘one-n-done’ and have at it.

[Rogue]

@RainToday

springtails

Springtails are like rolly pollies, so long as there’s topdressing / mulch in your pots they’ll leave your cannabis alone. Springtails are also predatory so they’ll eat the ones that do eat eat your cannabis.

[JohnnyPotseed]

Spinosad is a big NO-NO, brother. I’ve said it often here on OG and folks still insist on using it. Spinosad is bad to smoke. Any trace of it will cause a lab test to FAIL… in almost any state where Ganja is legal. I found this out the hard way, when we were commercial op… lost over $20,000 harvest due to using Azamax, which had Spinosad in it!
That was only the one harvest, but still, lol it did hurt! We ran a perpetual harvest set-up with chops every other week,.
Couldn’t even get it processed down into concentrate!
If you research it, you’ll find that it lasts awhile on Ganja, especially indoor grows. But it can be gotten rid of with foliar feeds/rinses eventually. Depending on how often/much you used it, anywhere from a few weeks to months. We had only used the Azamax a couple of times, but it was enough. After the Fail, we stopped chopping for just over a month, while using daily rinses. Spraying things down with a 2gal pump sprayer. lol Needless to say, we also tossed that $350/gal of Azamax!

[RainToday]

That’s awful! Appreciate the heads-up. I’ve only used it on early veg cannabis, a few near dead seed mommas, and on my other plants. This time I was cannabis-free ans it was just other plants.

Got a giant sprawling dragonfruit in my grow room, a Thai lime, and a few random others. Killed off all the annual type plants and trimmed the rest for easier spray coverage when I paused my perpetual cannabis grow. Bare greenhouse looks so sad right now!

[RainToday]

I got a tail! 13 hours of soak, one showing a tail. When I disturbed them they all started to sink, so I decided that’s enough soaking, don’t want them to drown.

Moved them all into the clamshell. It had steamed up on top, so nicely moist. I roughed up the surface gently, placed the seeds in rows with a marker for the one with a tail. Pressed each into the surface with a fingertip and dripped a little of the soak mixture over them. Back in the warm closet to wait.

[RainToday]

@20 hours = 2 more tails showing and there could be some that I don’t see due to the orientation of the seed.

I turned the two new ones so the tails are headed down into the worm glop, and marked them.

I placed a thoroughly rinsed damp paper towel over the top of the soil because the humidity seemed just a little too low above ground.

Now trying to think when to transfer to soil. I’m thinking another day or two, with the hope of roots at about half inch. I only have a half inch of worm glop in there, so the answer might be “when I see roots hit the bottom” or “when the cotyledons try to emerge”. Or maybe just 24hours after tails? Regardless, I’ll be taking a spoonful of the surrounding worm glop with them. There’s already worms and springtails in my grow bags.

With regular seeds, I move them any time after they show a tail. Just uncertain about these. So grateful to have any living at all!

Input very welcome.

[BigDaddyDrew]

@RainToday

soil

I’m not qualified for advise, but keep em warm. Congrats on the revival, hope you get more…

[FeloniousMonk]

[RainToday]

Blargh. Well, I think the first batch are toast - or the opposite really. The closet / cupboard got down into the 60s overnight. They might already have been in trouble, but that was probably the end for them. They made no progress, and when I pulled off some seed coats they had brown spots on the cotyledons, which I associate with bad microbes starting in. I carefully peeled half or all of the seed coat off a bunch of them, gave them a short soak in some chamomile tea (antifungal), and put them in a chamomile-tea damp paper towel in a ziploc in a hot pad on my computer. Been keeping them at ~75f all day and most looked no different at the evening check, which is perhaps the best that can be hoped for. Warmed the worm glop back up to about 72. Now I’ve set up a tub for the night with an actual seedling mat and a temp controller. I’ll wait a week before actually giving up on them. I’ve fried seedlings with those heat mats before too, so I’ll be monitoring it for a couple hours here before bed.

Started round 2 with 50 seeds. No dry scarification this time, don’t want any bad microbes getting in. Soaked in 1% hydrogen peroxide for 15min. Then rinsed and rubbed the seeds on the fine mesh strainer a bit to rough up the seed coat a tiny bit. Now soaking in 3/4 cup of chamomile tea with a drip of agave nectar, a drop of molasses, and 3/4 teaspoon of Ful-Power. In the morning I plan on moving them into a ziploc with well-rinsed paper towels and the same mix. They are in the tub meant to stay in the 70s overnight. (In case you’re wondering, my grow room won’t work because it joins our whole house in getting down to the low 60s at night right now.

[BigDaddyDrew]

Blarrrgh… (I like that word).

I recently lost 2 rounds of germinated seeds. due to temps getting a wee bit too low… It was the only variable that was outside the parameters of success Yep, the house just got a bit chilly overnight… So it seems this lesson is being re-enforced… Keep em warm for the begining, over 70 degrees seems to be the key in my (limited) experience… I have 2 scarlet grape seeds that are showing as seedlings today…er … amybe one an and half atm… The peroxide seems a proven science-- with the optimum being a 1.5-2% solution-- I use it for the full duration in the papertowel method-- I keep the papertowel damp in an old brown yeast jar, no baggie., I have tried it with mykos added to the towel as well- but saw no benefit. As soon as I see tails, I plant with alot of mykos stirred in … I use a humidity dome for a few days while the seedlings get used to the light on the edges of the tent. I kinda question the agave/tea/honey/molassas bit-- that seems more like microbial food than anything that would benefit a newly hatched tap root,- no? Wishing you warm temps and lots of… cracked beans? stay warm!