Aeroponics discussion thread for HPA/AAA and maybe another grow

[anon32470837]

@VandalBee

One of my favorite growing medium used mainly for micro greens. Its sustainable, hold just enough water, drains well without leaving the plant dry.

LOL Hemp fibers to grow hemp weed in! I love it!

I will probably stick with the fabric batting I have on hand. I probably have enough to last me 20 grows or more, plus it seems to be working really well, so I see no real need to change it out. The seeds seem to be really happy so far.

The older baby is growing nicely on top and the root is growing fast. Another day or two at this rate and I will be ready to put the puck in place. Just the barest hint of fuzzies so far, but Im still misting pretty heavy and direct.

Both of the seeds in the other pot started to pop earlier today, and now they have a start on the tap root.

So far, I am really pleased with how this is working out. I really like the fact that there will be no transfer shock to deal with. I think that off sets the extra cost to run the entire system for a few days vrs leaving the seeds in paper towels and perlite dixie cups.

Ive been debating whether this would be safe enough to risk trying it with those expensive Mephisto seeds that are on the way. Unless there is some disaster between now and then, Im going to try it. I might soak the seeds in water until they pop though. We will see what kind of mood Im

[anon32470837]

This AM the baby was ready to go into the puck. It went faster than I thought. Easy transfer - easier than from perlite.

I cut as much of the fabric off as I could without getting too close to the root.

One of the other two seeds is a a little ahead…

[VandalBee]

My project is tacking shape
Screws and metal plate are all stainless steel 304.

[anon32470837]

@VandalBee

My project is tacking shape

Ok, first thing is I hate you for making my build look like amateur hour Looking great!!

But - I have a couple of questions?
Are you using the Delavan clone nozzles and adapters?
In siphon mode?
Is that the air regulator and solenoid in those pics?

Edit: never mind - forget all those questions. I am the one who was thinking backwards!

[anon32470837]

Time for an up-date on starting seeds in the AA system.

I have been having good success and bad success. So far, the first iteration with the unmodified fabric batting has worked the best - but - I had to poke a hole in the fabric to help the root get through. If I didnt do that, the baby plant just got pushed all over the top of the fabric while the root got longer, instead of the root growing down through the fabric.

So I tried pulling and thinning the fabric - same thing. Then I tried using thin cotton pads - same thing. The new seedling just grew on top of the fabric unless I poked a hole for the tap root.

I finally decided it was because there was nothing on top of the seed case to hold it in place so the root could force its way down.

So now Im trying a test by placing another piece of fabric on top of the tap root to weigh it down. We will see…

In the mean time, my Mephisto Canna-Cheese 1:1 seeds arrived and I started them soaking. Im going to wait until they pop, then place them on some cotton pads and then put another layer on top to hold it in place. I suspect I will have to remove the covering after a couple of days so the seedling can start growing vertically, but I want that tap root to get started down into the fabric.

The first baby I started from seed is doing very well. yesterday I started lowering the flow rate and angling the nozzles away from the net pots and today fuzzies are starting to show up much better.

[anon32470837]

I started soaking the Mephisto seeds yesterday and put them into the system tonight. That means the other two babies are now toast - but their sacrifice has been for a good cause

The older baby’s roots were really starting to grow with the beginnings of nice fuzzy hairs.

The younger one with the added fabric cover over the root was doing just fine. That extra layer of fabric did exactly what I wanted. It gave the shoot the leverage it needed to turn up and start growing vertically and also allowed the tap root to start growing down through the fabric.

This seems to be working well enough for me to try it with the Mephisto seeds. I will cull the slowest seed once they pop.

I’ll post grow pics in a new thread and keep this one for general discussion on techniques, other folks projects, etc.

Mephisto Canna-Cheese 1:1 auto FEM aero grow

This thread is mostly just going to be progress pics of the plants and roots. Details about the growing environment in my Air Atomized Aeroponic (AAA) setup will be in my other general discussion thread. I managed to snag 3ea canna-cheese seeds and started them soaking in water yesterday. Tonight, I put them into the aero system. They have not popped yet. My system is only set up to grow two seeds at a time, so Im going to choose the best two of three after they pop. The criteria at this poin…

[GnomeyByNature]

@anon32470837 hey man, how’s your grow goin?

If you’re up for it, would love to see how your top growth goes along with your root growth?

I think we talked about this, not sure tho, but I feel like it has been speculated that almost an excess of roots can be generated where you’re not getting a top growth that one might expect looking at the root growth?

Maybe you can confirm or dispel this?

Also, I’m pretty sure you can cut a certain amount of roots without detriment to prevent them from over taking your chamber.

[anon32470837]

@GnomeyByNature

If you’re up for it, would love to see how your top growth goes along with your root growth?

Do you mean visually or? Im just guessing, but Id say the root mass generally keeps pace with the plant mass - more or less with a very large degree of uncertainty.

Sometimes it feels like the plant growth stalls because of a nute imbalance, PH etc, while the roots keep growing - BUT - thats just a guess. There is no way to weigh them to compare, and after the first few weeks, its impossible to see the entire root mass.

I have been meaning to weigh the root mass after a grow, but you would need to at least dry any excess water from the roots to do a fair comparison. Plus you would need to save all the trimming, stems, etc to know the total plant mass.

It would probably be better to compare dry weights. If so, I know roots dry down to next to nothing as far as weight. They are like cotton candy when totally dry.

Its just not been something I wanted to know badly enough to really mess with.

@GnomeyByNature

I think we talked about this, not sure tho, but I feel like it has been speculated that almost an excess of roots can be generated where you’re not getting a top growth that one might expect looking at the root growth?

Ive read that, but I dont think thats limited to AA or HPA, or even hydro in general. Lots of ways to stunt top growth with no good way to see whats really going on with the roots. Also, I have proven you can kill off a lot of roots while the top just stops growing, so it can go both ways.

@GnomeyByNature

Also, I’m pretty sure you can cut a certain amount of roots without detriment to prevent them from over taking your chamber.

Ive read that too, but Im convinced it slows or even stops top growth when you do - at least for a while. Ive done it many times unintentionally!

I have also trimmed off the one long single tap root that usually goes racing to the bottom ahead of all the rest. I did that to see if it would trigger more side growth in the roots. It did, but it also seems to slow down things up top. I am not planning to do that again. I think its better to fine tune your ON/OFF times and over all flow rates to control down vrs side growth. More mist/wetter roots = faster down growth. Less mist/drier roots = more side growth.

As far as cutting to protect nozzles or what ever, I dont recommend that. If you have lots of fuzzy hairs, you can compress the root mass by hand if you want, but thats only a temporary solution. The fuzzy roots stick together like velcro and will stay compressed - but - new shoots just keep coming back. I worry about the compressed portions not getting enough air/water/mist and possibly developing rot.

In the end, I think its best to design the chamber to avoid that from the start.

[GnomeyByNature]

Well I wonder if you didn’t cut the tap root and just the other roots?

But yeah, I think it would be cool to see the top growth along side the bottom growth.

[JoeCrowe]

I actually find with all things being equal, the dna of the plant determines the final sprawl of the root ball.
My example is I had these two strains I was growing, one always chunked the bucket full of roots right down to the bottom. The other one? only ever filled half the bucket, even though it yielded better. If you can find some kind of link between the root ball and some kind of productivity change in the plant… I salute you, sir. It’s a question that has always been on my mind.

[anon32470837]

@GnomeyByNature

Well I wonder if you didn’t cut the tap root and just the other roots?

Thats a good question. Its pretty well accepted that trimming a root ball, when transplanting in soil grows, is ok, and even beneficial in some ways. The theory is that it stimulates new root growth into the fresh soil in the larger container. I think the generally accepted safe amount to trim is around 10%.

I have seen that work in my grows. Trimming the tap root does stimulate side growth - for at least a while. I have never tried any other trimming - other than killing them off by forgetting to turn the nozzles back ON!!!

But - it seems to me that any cutting is doing some harm and will slow the plant down to some degree.

On the other hand, that may be a perfectly ok trade-off - especially if your nozzles are about to be over grown. Better to do some controlled, limited harm to avoid a greater harm.

In your case - your chamber will have the nozzle on the bottom shooting up? And you have all the pants spread out around the outside edges?

You might consider a couple of things, but it will depend on how long your plants roots get as they grow. I think your doing vegies? If so I have no clue.

Anyway, if they tend to be shorter, smaller root masses, you may have no worries at all. Just fine tune your spraying times/flow rates so the roots dont crowd out into the center and block the mist travel path to the top of the chamber.

I have never been able to do that with 100% success - mainly because there has always been a big difference between the top of the chamber and the bottom as far as mist density. The top sections always has less mist and want to grow more sideways while the lower sections want to grow more down.

The other thing with my roots is that they want to pile up in layers on the bottom of the chamber. I have had as much as a 6" thick layer on the bottom. So if your roots grow long, you may want to raise the nozzle up a few inches off the bottom or have some way to move it easily. Maybe plan to be able to change it to top down spraying if need be?

[GnomeyByNature]

@anon32470837

Thats a good question. Its pretty well accepted that trimming a root ball, when transplanting in soil grows, is ok, and even beneficial in some ways. The theory is that it stimulates new root growth into the fresh soil in the larger container. I think the generally accepted safe amount to trim is around 10%.

I have seen that work in my grows. Trimming the tap root does stimulate side growth - for at least a while. I have never tried any other trimming - other than killing them off by forgetting to turn the nozzles back ON!!!

But - it seems to me that any cutting is doing some harm and will slow the plant down to some degree.

On the other hand, that may be a perfectly ok trade-off - especially if your nozzles are about to be over grown. Better to do some controlled, limited harm to avoid a greater harm.

In your case - your chamber will have the nozzle on the bottom shooting up? And you have all the pants spread out around the outside edges?

You might consider a couple of things, but it will depend on how long your plants roots get as they grow. I think your doing vegies? If so I have no clue.

Anyway, if they tend to be shorter, smaller root masses, you may have no worries at all. Just fine tune your spraying times/flow rates so the roots dont crowd out into the center and block the mist travel path to the top of the chamber.

I have never been able to do that with 100% success - mainly because there has always been a big difference between the top of the chamber and the bottom as far as mist density. The top sections always has less mist and want to grow more sideways while the lower sections want to grow more down.

The other thing with my roots is that they want to pile up in layers on the bottom of the chamber. I have had as much as a 6" thick layer on the bottom. So if your roots grow long, you may want to raise the nozzle up a few inches off the bottom or have some way to move it easily. Maybe plan to be able to change it to top down spraying if need be?

As far as cutting the tap root and what effect it has, this brings into discussion another point of using clones (that don’t have tap roots right?) and whether they may actually be more or less suited for aero chambers with some benefit of cutting roots?

As far as my setup, I have done exactly what you have said, I thought I showed a picture, but here is my nozzle on a 8”? pvc cap that raises it up off the chamber floor:

And, as far as top or bottom, all my pvc 45s on the sides are sort of temporary (not fixed), so I could flip the whole chamber and also flip each individual pipe/plant holder.

[anon32470837]

@GnomeyByNature

As far as cutting the tap root and what effect it has, this brings into discussion another point of using clones (that don’t have tap roots right?) and whether they may actually be more or less suited for aero chambers with some benefit of cutting roots?

I didnt know that. I only grew clones one time and they were either in perlite hempy buckets, or three other types of hydro with different media that hid the roots, so I never got to see if they had a tap root or not.

It would be interesting to try a clone, but Im only growing autos now and they dont clone.

@GnomeyByNature

And, as far as top or bottom, all my pvc 45s on the sides are sort of temporary (not fixed), so I could flip the whole chamber and also flip each individual pipe/plant holder.

That solution never would have occurred to me! Great idea!

[GnomeyByNature]

The only thing is I guess I would have to make a drain connect on both sides… I think I’m likely to go with bottom up tho when I finally get to it

[anon32470837]

woooohoooo! Fuzzy hairs on the new babies already! Never had them this soon.

Mephisto Canna-Cheese 1:1 auto FEM aero grow

I decided to try to take a peak at the roots and I already have fuzzy hairs!! This new technique of starting the seeds in the system requires a lot of extra babysitting compared to my normal methods, but this makes it worth it. Ive never had fuzzy hairs this soon. [20201030_232900] [20201030_233046]

[VandalBee]

Control box is almost rdy - just need to hook the backup batteries, lights, fans, dehumidifier and the inside the grow room small control box and I’m good to go.

[anon32470837]

@VandalBee

Control box is almost rdy - just need to hook the backup batteries, lights, fans, dehumidifier and the inside the grow room small control box and I’m good to go.

Have I mentioned yet that I hate you?

Unfortunately (for my ego), that is some amazingly neet work there! Very well done!

[anon32470837]

Plan C for starting seeds in the system.

I decided the synthetic fabric diapers sucked for starting seeds, and the cotton diapers were not that much better. They are both a lot of trouble, plus you are stuck with a heavy piece of fabric entangled in the roots hanging under the foam puck. The last one may have even started growing some yellow algae, so forget that technique.

It occurred to me that if I just left the seeds sandwiched in paper towels long enough, they might grow tails long enough to put directly in a puck. I could also maybe support the paper towels vertically so the roots would grow straight down instead of curling around. Then I saw a trick that Mephisto uses to pop their seeds - put them into paper towels and put that into a DVD case. Bingo! I could use the DVD case to hold the paper towels flat, and vertical.

I started with three of @Sebrings Waterstone CBD auto’s so I could pick the most vigorous of the three.

I DID NOT DO A PRE-SOAK in water. Put them in a damp paper towel, then inside a DVD case with a dark cover to block light.

Then I supported the DVD case so it sits vertically on top of my light fixture. Thats the warmest place in my tent - about 82F on average. I didnt really like that movie anyway

24 hours later:

The morning of the second day:

Evening of the second day:

As you can see, the seedlings have been growing quite well. The middle one is clearly winning, and is also almost out of its helmet, so it got picked. You can also see I cut down a standard foam puck more or less in half thickness wise. I also carved off a little extra in the very center so as much of the new root will be exposed to the mist as possible. I hopefully left enough foam to support the stem and allow the cotyledons to grow UP while the root grows down. At this stage I dont want to squeeze the new root, but it does need a little friction to hold the new stem in place. After the baby gets bigger I will put it into a normal puck.

By the way, I soaked the seeds in the same water I am currently spraying in the system - PH 5.8 and EC 0.4 or 200 PPM. The normal wisdom has been to soak seeds in un-PH’ed tap water. However, it seems to me that, in nature, seeds dropped in soil would normally be starting with nutes in place already and the PH at what ever it happens to be. Plus, this should eliminate any stress from that direction.

Here it is in the puck in the net pot.

I put a piece of wet toilet paper on the puck, then covered it with a mason jar as a humidity dome. The baby is going from a 100% humidity environment so I want to ease it down slowly as it grows.

Its been just under 48 hours since I put the seeds in the paper towels. This is by far the fastest I have ever gone from seed to system. Its also just about the fastest any seeds have poped for me.

Now the question is - will it actually work? The baby has been in the system for about 20 minutes so far…

Edit: Its hard to see, but the two lower babies actually had some fuzzy hairs inside the paper towels. Unfortunately, I smashed them all flat while putting the middle baby in the foam puck. I expect them to come back fast though.

[anon32470837]

Im really liking this DVD case technique for germing seeds.

After I put the first baby in the system yesterday, I left the other two seeds in the case to continue growing. This is what they look like tonight. The lower one seems to be having issues, but the top one looks great.

I decided to go ahead and add it to my system. I had an old hole in the chamber that I had covered up that was almost in a good place, so I stuck this baby in the other half of the foam puck I had cut down. Now I have three babies in the system instead of two. The positioning isnt ideal for two nozzles, but Im ok with that for this run. It will be interesting to see how this works.

The first one I put in yesterday looks like this tonight.

And the new one I just put in. Next time I try this, I may wait an extra day.

Both are under humidity domes.

[anon32470837]

grrrrrrrrr

I love my cats, but some days are better than others. This is whats left of BOTH of the Waterstone babies after I turn my back for all of 2 minutes. She has never tried to eat any of them before. Maybe because these were so young? Evil cat!