Where do I begin…
Please note the following post is only in reference to cuttings/clones pre callous rooting. It is NOT intended for plants with established roots.
First I believe clarification is in order. While I appreciate the help in diagnosing, it is incorrect. Distinctions need to be drawn regarding ‘rot’ symptoms. It’s NOT pythium! It can LEAD to pythium. After reading it’s actually more pernicious and pervasive, but I wouldn’t have known anything if @George didn’t say to treat them in a cup of H2O2 and I made a make shift bubbler.
The problem being under light and not sealed well, after 3-4 days an opaque slime developed. I remembered when I removed the cuts half the small res exposed to light and then with the new information I’ve found WHY that happened even with H2O2 added… it is Cyanobacteria aka ‘blue algae’ that’s present in our tap water. Growers are reporting resistant Cyanobacteria cases to chlorine treatments, Physan 20 and other Oxidizers agents.
This is WHY H2O2, bleach cleaning/treatments, hypochlorous acid aren’t working as they should to sterilize the water/interior environment. The Cyanobacteria are building resistances. We’re in the middle of an organism evolution at the very nexus of growing - water!
Thankfully out of sheer gut intuition my choice of getting Oxine was the best choice as it is designed for this increasing dilemma many will face. I also have not seen any aggregated threads on STEAM cleaning.
After I noticed brown areas and mushing I checked which didn’t break apart scratching to be firm and planted 5 from that batch just barely going. A Bissel steamshot just arrived to do some tough bathroom/floor cleaning and I immediately thought what about steaming the whole thing, even better a drop of Oxine added to tank.
I tried using my Permaklone collars during but I knew I had to clean those before trying again. Collars, bubble curtain, pump mounting plate, pump front cover, manifold w nozzles into a bowl. According to Permaklone 15 mins microwave boiling water. The manifold and the bubble curtain we’re unaffected. The cover, plate and a few nozzles were, and warped and melted. My blunder, but you can see I’m not fucking around and trying to intensely sterilize everything. Perhaps less time would allow this without melting ?
As a result I ordered a new pump. Without the front pump cover, the spray is weak. I had to get creative, tear out 2 gall bucket aero clone pump/manifold cord I started w out of drilled hole, steam clean rigorously the whole thing and added it in. However the bubble curtain creates mist that reaches the top.
@shag I know you have said timers are irrelevant to pathogens, but I’ve seen faster issues arise trying to go continuous. Personally I think too long of spraying is contributing to soggy ends, allowing bacteria to take hold quickly. After 2 days of doing 1 min spritz spray every 20 mins the ends are firm. I had to recut one suspicious cut after adjusting from 36 hrs of spraying. I also noticed too dramatic of increase in temp as it stayed on. I think going for finer mist with quick sprays negates factors that Cyanobacteria thrive in. Perhaps this is not a factor in Pythium development
And now another adjustment for Cyanobacteria issues has to be introduced. Low level direct top down lighting used to fine, NOW it has to be indirect and fainter. I’ve taken my 3 tubes of LED and turned to the sides and one in the middle to refract. The LED even at its lowest setting is too much for direct over the top.
I think the lighting position/distance is another factor that promotes Cyanobacteria to grow, hence why I’ve said at the beginning the slimed cuts WITH H2O2 treatment. IF it was true Pythium I shouldn’t be here because the colder zone wouldn’t even allow it to start. Cyanobacteria grow in hot or cold temperatures regardless.
Another indicator is Ph, which high alkaline is for Cyanobacteria and low acidic is for Pythium/Fusarium. This is why my constant diligent to cool failed, as my Ph would stay high constantly. Also I should note seeing weird black dots in my case that’s never been consistent with Pythium.
We almost can’t associate ‘brown/tan/discoloration’ to a diagnoses of Pythium because it could be a Cyanobacteria case instead. After 4 days (sat night) I took a cut of B Corn, which has suffered the worst from Cyanobacteria to root. My cup has plain water and nothing else. I made a foil top but this time made a cavity, made a large enough hole and let a collar rest over top. This cup is off to the side AWAY from the LED beams. I check every day after 24 hrs to see if Cyanobacteria have formed. The stem is crisp and firm. Nothing comes off the stem when rubbed slightly with nail. This is an experiment to see how long it takes Cyanobacteria to start their life cycle, but as the days pass and LIGHT being kept at a further distance is proving this is a major contributing factor to HOW they bore themselves from water.
This comes to mind how light leaky home made cloners will inevitably fail. How we illuminate our cuts is on the horizon to change. We also have to reverse from treating to preventing. The chemical treatments aren’t in our favor. The only way is altering the source, because we can’t eliminate what is causing Cyanobacteria. It breaks down to simple science…what is it that algae does, photosynthesis …exactly the point. What is the point of any organism, to reproduce and survive… It is all about any kind of crack, hole and space where light can get to in the res and since most clone 24/7 any breach is Cyanobacteria’s moment of opportunity. Going back it took less than 72 hrs for slime. It’s very rapid and accelerated than Pythium takes.
The development of Oxine is a breakthrough but after everything I’ve read it’s not to be relied on. It’s really the same principle is with antibiotics to treat a cold or flu, which only treats SYMPTOMS and makes the bacteria/virus more resistant as a result. Cloners will have to be super light tight, not even the slightest pin hole of light getting in. I’ve said lowest lighting setting still caused it, but readjusted off to the side/refracting and fainter appears to be working and this correlates with what I’m seeing from the cut that’s away from light. I’m going to take pics and link threads for reference. Here at OG we have to make discernible differences. It would be wrong to generalize 2 different organisms as one when the advised treatments are actually creating a resistance and oblivious to the actual source.
Cyanobacteria are present in the water, but it must have LIGHT to activate. Without, algae can’t function in its basic life cycle. I don’t see it as algae though. I see it bacterial and we as growers need to refer to slime as Cyanobacteria, because we’re spinning our wheels wasting time and money continuing to associate slime to Pythium and furthermore trying to chemically treat as Pythium is counterproductive to prevention at the source, which hasn’t been water at all, LIGHT is the fucking welcome mat for Cyanobacteria to begin life from being dormant in water. This is the crux, but I digress my ranting so we may begin to distinguish and correctly identify source than increases resistance so that nothing works and the lone option is fainter/distant light to stop this organism from becoming immune to all chemicals. All I can say is if that happens WE ARE FUCKED! All hydro growing will become impossible to manage. Chemicals need to be reserved for last cases and not the first and the attention is about lighting/leaks/intensity
This is a long one, but extremely extensive and detailed
This another where it’s mentioned. Brief insight
This is about Oxine and employee from Bio-cide shares some nuggets of info
Now for pics
Note the cup, light distance and placement of rod
Here is the test cut as I explained
Here is the stem and cut end
Next
Note my lighting and how it’s positioned. You can see my cloner is under a shelf away from the light at distance and my rods are angled away too
Next let’s look at the lid
Here is another reason why to use indirect light. See the tiny hole at the top of the split…I’m telling ya. Light has to be re-thought with Cyanobacteria and the resistance to oxidizer
All my ends, are still solid and no plant matter rubs off. I’m using about 5 drops of Oxine every other day. For extra measure I’ll change my water, every 4 days, steam clean res/pump manifolds. I’ve decided to addd new bubble curtain. Really after 1 year things like should be replaced than chance it. IF this batch roots, my hypothesis will be accurate about light needing to be even less for Cyanobacteria cases. Obviously the easiest way to know if your water is plagued with Cyanobacteria is take a cut and let it sit in an open cup of water under your clone lights, and shortly the snot/goo will be hanging and sucking the life out of the cut. You will know you have to make the adjustments in how you light your cuts going forward. I hope this helps those who can’t figure why your cuts keep failing
Hopefully I can return my appreciation w some TC x Xmas x NL 2 seeds 
That is interesting to know about the BA using lava rocks (hydrotron) Perhaps I didn’t have anything for it to colonize on. I’ll see if that makes the difference. Thanks for the tip
