just as an example a lot of organic farms use composted manure to add Nitrogen but it also has very high levels of Phosphorus. You do this year after year and the Phosphorus will build up to levels that are toxic to the environment. Ideally, you would use the manure to get the right levels of Phosphorus and make up for the lack of Nitrogen with something else.
Just my understanding I could very well be wrong but basically just because its organic doesn’t mean too much of it doesn’t cause issues
If someone (organic or not) is adding compost for N, they need to up their game. N is one of the easiest element to supply imo. Soluble Phosphorus on the other hand is much more difficult.
double post
It’s not allowed by the EU, its not so much big AG, it’s environmentalists pushing to do away with Chilean nitrate mining and disagreements amongst them.
You’ll find there is very little consistency of logic from the organic side of things.
Same people who used Magnesium sulfate will turn around and tell you “salts are bad”. There are places on earth where potassium nitrate occurs naturally, but using it is “bad”.
I could argue many organic inputs are worse for the environment than their salt based replacements. Using urine would be OK…but urea would not be. Using bat guano is OK, but washing the nitrate from the guano and using that is “not OK”. Then there’s the people who are “veganic” and will only use plant derived material. It’s a whole thing…taken to extremes in the weed world. You really don’t find this in other plant hobbies.
OMRI is a labelling scam. Companies pay to get that little seal and folks buy it. Dozens of different ideas of “organic” and it has to be the “right kind”.
I figure if I can use “synthetic” salt to breed marine fish and grow spectacular coral and they can thrive and breed in an environment created by such terrible things, I can use a small amount of minerals and salts to grow some weed and I bet it’ll turn out pretty well 
Being in the organic world, some of the hypocrisy was astounding. There’s also gobs of red tape and bureaucracy, and it’s also very easy to break the rules and not get caught. The NOP and all the certifiers do very little other than collect some money and look over a lot of paperwork and records for a day once a year.
That video with bugbee is awesome, definitely worth the watch.
Omri isn’t perfect but it’s far from a scam…… All of the organic farmers I know aren’t going through all of the extra work of soil fertility, and tough IPM because they want a “seal” to sell their products for slightly more. They do it because they believe it produces a healthier product for people. And in order for people who want that product to even know it is grown organically, they are required to get certified. While not every allowed input and methodology makes perfect sense in organics, the main idea is people trying to do better.
Also to be clear I’m not nocking hydro or salts. Just adding my perspective.
I’ve been reading through this thread trying to understand.
Im seeing way more hate here toward organic growers than I ever see hate toward hydro growers in organic threads.
Do your own thing. Different strokes for different folks.
That’s all I have here, good vibes to all!
Gotta disagree. They make it because it sells for more. It’s a market share they want.
If Heinz could charge what they do for organic ketchup without actually doing “organic” practices buddy you better believe they will.
It feels like one of those stupid border wars, where neither side will win because the two extremes are dug in so firmly. I land in the middle, for some things organic is great, for others, it’s lacking. Common sense is one of those things NOP, EU, JAS, COR and on and on want to squabble over their own set of rules rather than adopt other’s standards. Organic standards are often political in nature and used to push imports of agricultural goods. If all of these organizations actually cared, they would sit down with each other, the farmers, the processors and manufacturers and agree to a universal standard. The reason they never will, egos, greed,
@vernal Don’t even get me started on this… Let’s just say there’s a hell of a lot of don’t ask don’t tell in the organic food and beverage industry. Also, a minimal amount of testing
Go check the country of origin for organic produce in cooler climates… think about the carbon footprint there.
Also, now you’ve got organic consumers demanding GMO free certification. You want to talk about a scam and a public that had no idea why they’re even buying organic and what it means…
Again just my perspective, all of the farmers I know.
I don’t know hienz. Its not surprising Big corps are cashing in on “organics” the cheapest they possibly can. Like any system, it can be taken advantage of, especially when large amounts of money are thrown at it. But organic certification on the smaller scale helps farmers differentiate between themselves and traditional AG and allows consumers a clearer picture of who they are supporting. So in my mind not a scam but certainly being exploited.
From my experience, you have to be a top notch grower to survive in this world. There are far too many people cranking out crapweed and saying it’s good. I’ve tasted crapweed grown in all methods from the same clones I supplied to other people. If you don’t know what you are doing… crapweed is headed your way!
Growing in hydro is a PITA. I’m starting to feel like the extra yield isn’t worth the extra work you’ve got to put into it. 
Not all hydro is created equal. My ebb and flow buckets require very little time or effort. I can literally spend less than 10 minutes per week feeding 16 plants or more. My soil grows take that much time several times per week for a fraction of the number of plants.
True. Ive grown in autopots in the past and that was mega easy.
I’ve been threatening to go back to autopots for the simplicity, how easy it is to adjust stuff and less energy use. 
Never tried autopots, but if you’ve had good luck with them in the past, and you find them to be easier than soil - you should follow through on your threat!
