@crunkyeah is right, if you can get the water to cycle enough through a dwc setup, for sure.
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First, no such thing as a stupid question, just asshole answers 
Seeing as how, where I am, diverting water is illegal and comes with crazy huge fines from fisheries, I’m going to answer this in a little different way…
Do you like fishing?? Oh good, me too!! So, the next time you go fishing, and you’re walking along a stream looking for a sweet little fishing hole, if you see grasses and stuff growing really well while being IN the water (not just at the bank, but right in it), you know you’re walking by a stream that has fish, because it’s literally aquaponics at work in nature 
.
I hope that helps, without getting me arrested 
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a couple things to think about:
water rights are a huge thing; make sure you’re not stealing water that isn’t yours. if you’re the farmer and it’s your stream, well then…
when you think about most of the moving water in a stream it’s highly oxygenated from flowing along the stream/river/etc. there isn’t really any place for all that nitrifying bacteria to do it’s job except right along the shore, and on protruding rocks/branches/etc, and that water is constantly being recycled so i would bet it’s probably not as many nitrates as a controlled system but there probably is some
if you can find a pond or lake some of the sand/rocks on the shore (especially if it smells like fish) is a good thing to grab if you want all the nitrifying bacteria.
if you remove water from a body and put it into your system, it’s a temporary injection. if we’re smart, we would be aiming to colonize enough nitrifying bacteria so that fish wastes turn into plant food on a continual basis. this will make your system self sufficient and keep your fish happy with ammonia-free water.
hope this helps!
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Yes. those answers are very helpful. I was just curious if poor farmers would get any benefit from river water as opposed to well water. 
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probably not much difference one can discern. where i live they pump all kinds of water from the rivers and from the ground and nobody can tell which is better.
i’d rather try to cultivate good bacteria in my system than take everything from nature but that’s just my two cents, even as someone trying to use minimal resources. i think the kickstart from nature is good but i want my system to operate on it’s own.
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You definitely need to worry about contamination from a natural source… Simply put, fish poop is good, bird poop is bad, very bad. Bird poop can contain bacterial that grows in your system and is almost impossible to clean out without shutting it down and bleaching the whole system (it happened when I was in Florida, their biofilter pools were outside in open air).
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Well, I have a dilemma and would like a sanity check from anyone reading this, lol
I currently have 3 plants growing, but it’s a super bad grow and I’m not going to get much off it. I want to cut down my current plants and start 1 new plant and grow it in a vertical SOG… I have at least 2 weeks left of budding for the current plants…
Gah, decisions!
Anyone have any thoughts?
Edit: I should say, the bad grow is 100% my fault, not the system… I had 3 plants I had been keeping as mom’s, 2 went full bonsai and the 3rd stretched like no plant I’ve seen (and I ended up pruning it almost to death)
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in my opinion i would let them finish. is it possible to get something started while those continue to do their thing? you’ll want at least 8 weeks of veg time on any new plant you’ll grow so it has time to get developed.
if you start some seedlings now, by the time those 3 get done you’ll be able to integrate them into your system. that’s how i would do it anyways. gives ya 2 weeks to figure how to position everything so that you’re ready to go. it sounds like you have reg seeds too, so you’ll want to germinate enough so that you can select the females. if you need help everyone here at OG is very willing to help, just have to pop on the right threads!
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That’s a good point, I should get it started and move it in once these are done… Some days, I’m at thick as a 2x4 🤷😂
I know what I’ll be doing as soon as I can get up
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I agree with @crunkyeah . Very good advice. I have found that when I make a move in a hurry is when I screw myself. 
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Yup, totally, me too… Gotta ask for that sanity check every now and then
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wanted to share a couple of things i learned publicly, so others may use the info themselves!
first…so i’ve basically adopted the Olomana aquaponic method (OA in this context) method, after watching all of Rob Bobs vids on YouTube. in comparing the two methods, the traditional aquaponics approach requires a solids filter of some kind, to keep things from going anaerobic and supply ‘bad’ water back to the fish. i wondered, why is it that the OA method does not use any filtration at all? why can they get away with no sump tank? why aren’t there more safeguards in place?
i think i’ve stumbled upon some of the answers! it’s because of the air pump!!!
- why no filtration - a 40w air pump supplies 60L/min of oxygen, 24 hours a day. since OA uses this oxygen to pump all the water in the system, one can be certain that 89,400L of atmospheric air is being pushed into your system every day. if your system is small (water volume), the airlift will cycle the water in the entire system several times per day.
- why no sump - some may contain a biofilter after a mechanical filter, but generally sumps are always wanted to be clean. additionally there’s the problem of the water level in the fish tank. if you have to pump out water from the fish tank to the grow beds, when water levels get low, your fish don’t have much room to swim in! yikes!! traditional systems have a sump tank separate from the fish tank, so they never have to worry about the fish tank’s water level. the OA method realizes that there needs to be more water in the system in order for this problem to become alleviated. the simplest solution - more fish tank water. the problem - no additional benefits except ‘security’. the better solution - rather than increase the size of the fish tank, put a layer of water between the fish tank and the biobed, and now you have a trough to plant more plants in! the trough will buffer the fish tank with more water, as well as provide more spaces for plants to grow. win-win!
- why no safeguards - water seeks it’s own level. biobeds designed with false bottoms insure no fish wastes are left to become anaerobic. the biobeds empty with a siphon, so no overflows to worry about. deep troughs are linked in series so that siphon water from the biobeds pushes water through all troughs ultimately leading back to the fish tank, cleaned of nitrates, nitrites, and ammonia. the air supplied ensures that the entire system is one big bioreactor. the biobeds, roots, and oxygenated water will allow the beneficial bacteria to thrive. if power is shut off, everything stops. nothing empties, overflows, nothing. it’s as simple as it gets.
a couple things to note about pumping air with water…
- a pipe in a pipe airlift is about the same cost as a ‘big’ water pump. additionally we use a lot smaller pump than a traditional system would use for a water pump. it has no moving parts, and should work endlessly. nothing to clog, nothing to service, just plants and fish!
- air pumps serve a dual purpose here (oxygenation and water cycling)
- water depth is crucial! you MUST have at least 24" of water depth for the pump to operate efficiently. ideally 5’ would be the maximum because most reasonable air pumps don’t have enough head pressure. 4’ seems like the sweet spot between output and practicality - a 40w pump is going to push out almost 300gph at 4’ head.
here is a link about how to make one of these airlift pumps yourself:
PIP Airlift
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If you look at the OA videos, all of them dump into some form of rock grow bed, that’s where your solids end up. The air lift doesn’t break up the poop, it just lifts it.
That’s an easy fix though… worms! 
Add some red worms to your grow bed and the solids are taken care of and your roots will be super happy. Because there’s so much air in the water, the worms can actually live fully submerged, if need.
I fully intend on building one of these and trying it out, but having 4’ of water in a grow tent inside, and then your grow bed higher than that, you’ll end up with bonsai bushes like mine
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Well, it’s time for an upgrade.
The garbage can I’m using is the same one I had in the first stealth build, so it’s been holding water almost constantly for 7 years now, I think it’s time to give the plastic a break. Also, well done Rubbermaid! lol
The grow bed I have found to be a little too shallow, so I’m on the hunt for a container that’s 4’x2.5’x12"… if anyone has ANY idea of anything around that size that would hold water, I’m really open to suggestions. I also want to build this one so I can have an ebb/flow system, but also a constant flow, so I have some thinking to do on how to handle that. Once I figure that out, I’ll be hanging a 4x4 net vertically, I want to try and train the plant to grow up the net for support :).
I’m also going to remove the filters and run 1 pump to the new bio filter (garbage can) and new grow bed, with valves… I’m hoping to do this in a way that I can push water up to the shelf in the front of my grow tent.
Without the filters I’m going to end up with more fish poop in the grow bed, so for the first time I’m going to be adding worms to my system. The idea with worms is pretty simple… the big solids (big poops) don’t break down on their own as well and end up in clumps in your grow bed. So, the worms go in, eat that and break it down, leaving more nutrients for the plants. In an ebb/flow system, this worm poop (also called casings) is washed out of the grow bed and into the water, keeping the bed clean and the water nutrient rich. With worms breaking stuff down, the only additional thing the plants like is the chelated iron and potassium carbonate, all the budding nutes are apparently there and ready.
This IS all an experiment, and it’s a lot of fun 
I just hope the worms don’t try crawling out of the grow bed 
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i can’t say for certain because i don’t have fish poop but when i watch this video and see earthworm casting dissolved almost instantly, i can’t imagine fish poop is going to be ‘more solid’.
if one had worms in their biofilter bed, wouldn’t they want some amount of solids for the worms to move through? seems odd to have worms in a larger media like clay pebbles. no grit, no food, and no way to move around.
maybe you’re thinking there will be waste accumulation in the biobeds but that can’t happen if the system is sized correctly (with my current understanding). the only way excess waste can build up is if there’s too many fish and not enough biofilter to convert all the ammonia. for example let’s say i have a 55g drum for my tank and three 20gal biobeds. in that drum i can have up to 18 fish. 18 fish / 3 biobeds = 6 fish per biobed. the question is, do we think 6 fish produce enough waste to ‘gunk up’ a 20 gal tray? i don’t think so, but i will test in the near future to be certain.
indoors we could get away with using the burper pump method which will pump down to 2" water depth. options are available for working with shorter heights but, that is definitely an issue. with the grow trays being elevated so high off the ground it’s very difficult to adjust this system to growing cannabis.
in a tent a better option may be to have the aquaponic setup separate from the cannabis (outside the tent), and just use fish water when watering… still trying to brainstorm how to fix this problem.
i’ll be here when you need a hand setting everything up 
Cement mixing tray 21" x 33" x 7.5" is about the close as i could find. containers are a chore to sort through. you end up running into ‘too shallow/narrow’, ‘too weak/won’t hold up’ or ‘too expensive’. cement mixing trays are good, reasonable shape but not the most sturdy. many smaller buckets/bins plumbed together might be a better way to go, for cost. bus tubs would be good for that. 5 gal buckets would work too. a person could cut off the top rim if we wanted a smaller size. i could give you a dozen links to different things if you want, just let me know.
which parts of the system did you want for ebb/flow and which for constant?
i’m going to try and get a super simple set up before the weekend. i want to get my everything cycled so that come spring when i’m ready to order tilapia i’ll be ready for them!
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Ok, so at 3:30 in the video you posted, he shows the pipe coming out of the fish tank, through the valve and up into the black rock. In that case the black rock is acting as the biofilter, and there will absolutely be fish poop in it, which is where and why you would add worms . I’ve never had worms in my system, so this so going to be new for me, but if they can break down the muck that ends up in that media, I’m all for it. The worm casings he cleared out in his system was in a specific (and UBER cool) tea maker. You can buy worm casings online and it’s wiiiicked nutes, so he’s built a way to add it to the system.
It sounds like a huge dick-ish thing to say but, when you have your system up and running for a few months, once it’s really settled in and your ammonia and nitrite (or is it nitrate the nitrite… I can never remember anymore, lol) levels are zero regardless of what happens in the system, you’ll see…?
See, totally dick-ish, lol. It’s true though, once you have everything running, you’ll start looking into making it more efficient and you’ll find all sorts of things that would like to make better. It’s like they say about building a house you have to build it 7 times to get it right… So far, I’ve lost count how many systems I’ve built and I’m still finding things I though I had covered that I didn’t.
Right, you had mentioned the cement mixing tubs! I just need to find them in Canada, apparently we mix cement some other way, everywhere is out of stock or doesn’t carry them, lol 🤷. Grow beds are one thing I haven’t been happy with yet, it’s a constant search, you start looking at absolutely everything as a potential grow bed! I worked at a boat builder company for a while and we had these 10’ long perfect tray with a drain at one end… No matter how many times I asked, there was never a “damaged” one “out back” 🤷😂.
As for which part I want ebb/flow… I’m going to try it on the main grow bed. Because it’s pretty shallow, I’m hoping the water level change isn’t too big. But, if it is, I’ll just leave the bell off the syphon and it’ll be constant flow. I’m thinking the down spout in that should be threaded in so I can swap it out for different heights, or leave it off for the constant flow.
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It sounds like you fellas know what you are doing, but I think I will just carry water in a bucket . 
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of course! the thing is… completely intentional 
the thing is there won’t be ‘solid’ fish poop in it. how can there be accumulation when each bed is ebb/flow and everything drains evenly? again i have to wonder if 6 fish per 20 gallon biobed is really enough to accumulate enough waste to do anything detrimental.
you know what i’ll be happy if that turns out to be the case and i need to add a swirl filter. it will be a learning experience for myself and others! live and learn. i’m rather fond of swirl filters anyways, but the OA method specifically says that the most nutrition from fish wastes is in the solids. if you pay for fish feed, why would you want to remove the best nutrition from the system? in the OA system they’re actually introducing ‘more’ nutrition with the worm casting tea. can’t imagine them doing that if there’s excess buildup of fish waste.
i’ll politely rebut with, try 80,000L/day of aeration and see if that helps your nitrification process. should be fun to see what’s best.
as far as the containers go, let me send you some links for ideas.
funny, that essentially describes a float bed 
personally i think 8" is the sweet spot for food crops/herbs/etc. if we want to do canna, i think 12" deep or more is ideal. want to let those plants get nice and big before flip, that way you have lots of plant to train vertically.
i’ll let everyone know what i’m able to find here in the states on the cheap!
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Lol, with a really good canister filter, you’ll be laughing . Promise
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I know what you’re saying, but if you listen closely to the video, he says he’s low on the black rock, but when it’s full you don’t see the water coming up and down. So, the water doesn’t get all the way to the top, but the water comes in dropping water on the top, so you have a couple inches on “dry” rock that won’t ever get cleaned out.
You know if you get it working and prove me wrong, you’re gonna have to do a video so I can learn, right?? . A swirl filter to a dump bucket would be cool… But… What if you have that swirl filter dump into a medium worms would be happier in (coco? I don’t know), fill it with worms (appropriate amount for the system, of course), and then have that drain back into the system. That would get everyrhing broken down nice and you could even enclose the worm part to make sure the lil buggers don’t crawl away . I’m going off my memory here, so I could be out to lunch, but I believe he says the tea is for systems that don’t have fish in it directly.
Air… I’m adding air to my system, but I’m doing it in a piece OA doesn’t have in their systems, I’m adding air in the biofilter (garbage can) I have filled with biomedia (k5 for the majority but a mix of those in various sizes and various sizes of balls). I have the same pump pushing them same amount of air into 4 air stones in that garbage can that is used for the air lift… So, I’m pushing all that air directly onto the nitrifying bacteria on the bioballs 
. You’re right those, air is absolutely required, and a TON of it.
Yeah man, please do send any links you have. I’m actually looking at utility sinks right now, I’m just not sure if their made of the right plastic, but I’m doubting it. I’m thinking, 2 side by side, water coming out of the bottom of one into a hole I’ll have to cut in the second, then that one drains back into the fish tank. I have a bunch of 4" pipe, so drill a ton of holes in a chunk of that and silicon it to the bottom of the sink around the drain. Then build tyebdbb/flow system in the drain and I’ll be able to work on it in the 4" pipe. Then, fill the sink with clay pebbles and away it goes. 1 plant per sink, and they’re fairly low to the ground, so lots of time and height to grow.
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