Photo Periods or Autos that Is the question?

Smoker's Lounge
#61

I think a mistake that even leading autoflower experts make is that they say ‘autoflowers do XXX,’ when it should be ‘the autoflowers I have worked with, under the conditions I have grown them, do XXX.’

Unfortunately, just a few auto-‘influencers’ (I cringe at that term everytime) are widely platformed on podcasts, social, and Cannabis media.

Some expert advise I have heard and usually disagree with:
Autos like-
-few nutrients
-can’t be transplanted
-should be/should not be topped
-Like warm/cool weather
-Do great under 24/0 or require a dark period

Autos are like photos in that nearly everything is variable. Would you say anything like above for photos as a rule applied to all of them?

I have seen things top not recover, or do very well; high and low fert regimes be successful; 24/0 autos pack on weight, or be 1 ft tall traffic coned size buds run through with mold, probably similar to the same autos (bred outdoors in Oregon where nights are cool through summer usually) stunt in the Midwest, (possibly because of warm nights causing a heat-unit effect on metabolic rate).

The auto trait is just one gene. Aside from plieotropy that it may drag along with it (which doesn’t seem to reduce potency potential, resin characters, or organoleptics in highly introgressing and selected auto germplasm) there should be no difference in potential for almost any trait not affected by by the flowering trigger.

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#62

Well. I can say this on my experience with my first autos.

  • They wanted nutrients. Same as any other plant I’ve kept.
  • I transplanted them. Somehow all 8 managed to survive
  • I topped them above the 5th node. Actually produced a nice canopy, almost scrog-like without the work. 7 out of 8 were topped, the 4 that stayed inside made nice canopies, the 3 outside stretched a bit but still are looking ok.
  • they are inside, but its been in the 80s in the room, can’t say they want warm or cooler, but they look happy.
  • They enjoy an 18/6 light period.

I will say this now, take it with a grain of salt, but I think Autos would do better with longer light periods, 18 or 20 hours at least. 24 might be excessive, but who knows, where Ruderallis comes from there are periods of almost 24hr daylight. But I think treating them with a Photo lighting regiment will give you less yields, as will keeping em outside under normal daylight hours vs. 18+ hrs of light inside (just going by what I have growing now). Just makes sense really, Ruderallis is a plant adapted to long days, and it will take advantage of that extra light I believe.

Thats the one thing I am reconsidering, is planting em outside. At first I thought outside would be great, I’d beat the frost. But if what I have outside, is the same as inside, the inside is outperforming the outside 10 to 1 right now. Really seeing a difference between them and believe its the extra light hours to help em produce…

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#63

Lots of good answers here, knowledge is growing lol.

Apart from the obvious like you can avoid the need for a separate veg chamber i’d add that for anyone growing indoors in a damp climate or just about anyone who keeps getting bud rot autos can be a solution.

Regs spend 12hrs out of 24 in the dark which is often when humidity (RH) goes too high which encourages bud rot.
You can run autos 20hrs out of 24 so they only spend 4hrs in the dark. Believe me this can help a small scale indoor grower big time. Especially when using decent LED lighting to keep electricity costs down.

Edit i’ll add one more thing. I keep seeing people saying autos are good for beginners. I don’t agree. Since autos start flowering at just 3wks old they have to get a good start. Get them up and at least 12" preferably 14" tall in that time or you will have a runt. Watch out though cos some autos can get really big. I usually bend them at about 2wks to make them bush. Some need serious trimming in early bloom though.

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#64

I also hear autos are great for beginners. I was surprised to hear that at first as well, because for me it was a lot of harsh reality as I realized how much less forgiving they are than photos. Photos can recover from a lot. Anything you do to stunt them they can just sort of sit around until they recover. Anytime you stunt an autoflower it is fucked.

You also don’t have to worry about light cycles and when to flip.

In some ways they are good for people who have never grown Cannabis before because they don’t try to treat them like photos.

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#65

Autos can very just like photos.
Three seeds from same breeder. All three auto fem. All dropped the same time and treated the same.

20210625_192647 (3)
20210625_192647 (3)1696×1972 280 KB
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20210731_1504172304×1728 804 KB

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#66

Having grown both autos and photos… my thought is that the biggest pro with autos is that you can have a perpetual grow. It’s nice to be able to just start something new, or cut something down if I’m not happy with it. I find this much harder when I’ve got photos going… gotta switch the light cycles and what not.

Other than that, I don’t see much of a difference.

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#67

Why cant you have a perpetual with photos? @abazabaaa

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#68

You can have a perpetual grow with photos but you would need a separate veg area where as with autos it can all be done in the same tent. I am guessing that was the point there.

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#69

Yeah, but that is not the best definition of Perpetual, in case someone depends on new seeds constantly to restart the process. I’d see photos as the real ones due to allowing one to “perpetuate” cuts, just a thought!

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#70

I see your point but again you would need 2 grow spaces. One for your flowering plants and one for your vegging donor as well as the clones. With autos you could do it all in one space. Sure you would be popping seeds every time to start the next batch but you could do that in the same space as the flowering plants.

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#71

These are all good points… I should have been more precise!

For me, a perpetual grow means that I am constantly popping new seeds and pulling plants that don’t look good and replacing them with something new. Most of my experience is growing autos, as I only have one photoperiod grow under my belt.

There is a little bit more of a commitment of space indoors for photos because of the light requirements for flower vs. veg.

I think that a lot of the arguments against autos are very fair points – it is a bummer when you get a strain you like, but can’t reproduce it. I have to admit it is really really nice to be able to clone something that had just the right smoke and have the confidence that you will get a consistent result each cycle.

The autoflower field still has to adjust a bit, and I think that the breeding practices will require more care if one wants to produce homogenous F1 hybrids that consistently yield single phenotypes. To play devils advocate, though – it can be really nice to pop a pack of mephisto seeds and get a couple phenos from the same batch of seeds. Its nice to have so much variety.

I think an easier question to answer is what don’t you like about auto flowers? For me, it is the lack of transparency with breeding practices. For a photoperiod there is a little more tolerance for poly hybrid cultivars – You hunt a pheno and keep the winner. It’s nice to have the lineage and breeding practice (Bx, S, F, etc) but not critical.

For an auto flower you can most certainly get a pack of seeds and have a wide variety. Even the top breeders have this issue – you have to be fairly tolerant of this with the present options. There is also no guarantee that you will be able to get seeds, as the most popular breeders are often sold out in minutes. Put all of this on top of the fact that most breeders don’t disclose their practices, and you end up with a situation where its tough to want to commit.

I guess what I enjoy most about autos is that it sort of feels like the Wild West. I’m a scientist/academic for my day job – and its pretty fun to explore. I’m constantly surprised by the variation – I’ve had plants finish in 50 days from sprout and had others take 90 days; gotten 3/4 lbs off one plant, and had an 1/8 off another. It is still early days, and I like the idea that anyone can contribute to shaping where the scene goes.

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#72

Yeah im a huge fan of taking cuts and really digging through packs. My absolute favorite is showing up to friends with a cut and a finished sample.

Finding that special plant and setting up a monocrop. Makes growing so much easier.

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#73

I have breed autos for years.
First they are not all the same. You say the word auto flower and people automatically think of this short, quick flowering and non potent plant. It’s this mind state that needs to change.
Photos and autos can both share the same variances and can be different seed to seed, and breeder to breeder. If a breeder makes an auto using a photo strain that has many pheno types (poly hybrid) the auto will show the same genetic diversity as the poly hybrid.
Autos originated from local genetics, the same as many land races. The many variations are results from the cross breeding with the poly hybrids, or with strains being newly developed. It doesn’t take much to make a strain auto flower. And once it autos, most feel like the breeding is done.
The sad part is just because someone is able to make pollen and produce seeds, that doesn’t make them a breeder.
After I crossing my house to a group to several photo periods. I had a guy ask me if I were going to cross them back to already created autos, which will make 75% of the bean auto flower… I’m assuming that he asked believe that is the normal breeding practice. But i don’t know
I replied to him, no I wouldn’t be doing that. I told him that defeats the purpose of making new autos from photos. I told him my goal was to start a new line of auto from my strain, that didn’t carry any of the influences of other auto breeders.
As you can tell breeders play a huge part of the final results. Therefore grouping autos under a single heading is just wrong. The process of starting from seeds is weird to most photo growers because they don’t take into consideration of the difference in the breeding practices of the auto breeder. An already established photo breeder is going to do things much differently than a guy that’s been breeding autos for a while.
The mentally is auto breeders is that the strains must produce from seed, as well as have repeatable results. A photo breeder doesn’t care about repeatable results, because he can repeat his results by simply making clones.
The ideal of only getting one plant from a pack is crazy to an auto grower, when it perfectly ok to a photo grower. The photo grower mentality is that If a pheno hunt produce 1 decent plant that he can clone his worries are over. That doesn’t work in the auto word.
Any way to each his/ her own.

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#74

I’ve run autos on all light stages 24 hour 18-6 12-12 and found out it didn’t matter it was down to genetics ,did loads of different experimenting with autos it was the only thing I was growing for well over a year…I run autos on 12-12 lighting
Like I said in my findings if you have good genetics plants will grow big

This is just me,but I’ve grown a shit load of different auto strains from different seed banks.

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#75

The idea of only getting one plant per seed is crazy to a photo grower.

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#76

Seriously its just preference. Doesnt really matter at the end of the day. As long as your happy with your plants im happy.

#77

I’ve cloned autos it’s a waste of time unless you’re making pollen

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#78

Right on. I think I said that. And as your see, it’s clearly a case of 2 different mentalities.

#79

Really? I would have thought that given the same circumstances, 2 of a given type, one in 12/12 and one in 18/6, that the 18/6 just has more usable light time to pack on the growth. Makes sense, as ruderallis comes from the northern latitudes where thats pretty much THE reason they autoflower. Would be tough to quantify even with the same seeds because of potential for different phenos I guess.

I knew the sweetseeds autos I am running have good genes, and it shows. I guess I got lucky in the grab bag that PSB sent me, cause they look nice too but I just have no clue what they are. Definitely has me curious to experiment now. My autos outside that “were supposed to be the same” as the ones inside (aka, they were supposed to be photo white widow, purple kush, etc) and turned out to be autos seem to have less yield for sure (and I’ve always loved outside yields compared to indoors in my past).

One plant per seed only made me want to experiment with crosses even more, and it absolutely made me want a male plant and to make seeds. The short seed to harvest time makes it a little less painful.

I won’t give up on the photos :slight_smile: There’s too much good stuff there. But for now I’m like a kid who just discovered his new favorite toy…

#80

I tried it with the same seeds 3 seeds 1-24 hours 1-18/6 1-12/12
And they all grew the same
I was bored durning lockdown lol

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