oh I usually just crack the lid a bit and poke the camera in the opening. Snap a photo, and see what they look like. They should be nice and white! Just interested in seeing them because of the vast difference between root zone temp and leaf temp.
1 Like
Are you referring to the roots when the Temps were in the 80F range, my friend?
I do get what you’re saying about getting a peek at them. I might try that!
Thank you!,
WHAB
1 Like
I’ve been wondering about this since @Gpaw turned me on to it.
I very nearly blurted out the query, Gpaw! 
Instead I searched out the answer which negated bothering a friend with information I should be able to find on my own.
My question would have been - had I asked it - how does one control VPD during Lights Out.
In my head, trying to control the environment during Lights On made sense. Lights Out less so.
So, I found this instead of pestering a good friend!
The above was quite helpful. Thank you, @Gpaw 
I’m having some luck hitting the road surface during Lights On, sometimes on the shoulder. I have no idea how to control VPD at Lights Out.
I may have to acquire at least the “Pulse One” at $199.00 USD.
I can’t right now but maybe in the future.
I’m also having some trouble figuring out what the actual Humidity is in there. None of the sensors I have in there line up with each other sensor.
Which one do I trust? I really don’t know.
I am going to try the mini-hygrometer test and adjust the AC Infinity Control 67 monitor to it.
I’ve also considered an old-timey Hygrometer…the triple sensor you often see in someone’s home office I’ve seen my entire life, pre-digital age.
I want to get that thing dialed in. I need to get that thing dialed in. I don’t like not knowing.
In a game of numbers knowing the numbers is critical, imo.
I am curious, Gpaw…how do you control you Lights Out VPD?
Where Humidity is right now, on 3 devices…
Reading 43% to 66% and in between.
Which one would you all trust?
How do you zero in your humidity sensors, or do you even?
New Business .
Regarding the Sticky, I tried 409 first and that worked.
Then, I modified my Tripod-ish Root Tender you’ve seen me use before (in preparation for pulling the Runt out for few pictures - @JoeCrowe. The Runt is not Horizontal LST’d ). It was really weak and wonky. This simple base, scrap Luan, tightened it right up! I have been wanting to modify it since I first saw its weaknesses. When you’ve seen me use it I had to balance it against a fixed object to prevent it toppling over!
I only got around to it a little earlier today/tonight. I will turn that work light off for most, if not all, pictures I take there. That light really bleaches the pictures out!
In the above picture I used the bucket just as a test. It was close. When in use it for real I will be using just the 6 inch Netpots. This just proved the concept. It’s very tight and I don’t believe it will topple over. I could put some weight on the base IF that potential shows itself.
Right now, I’m going to try and get the Loft Doorway framed out.
I was babysitting minor mid-back pain. That crouching over crap is messed up! Who the hell would build something like that? I mean, except Hobbits who would build something like that?!?! 
I do hope you’ve made your Day and Night Great! 
,
WHAB
2 Likes
I use an AC Infinity T6 to control the max RH after lights out, but all I need to do is exchange for the dryer air in the lung room.
I recall in Eastern Missouri the RH could hit +90% with a south wind. That might need a different solution…
I had a question, is that high heat you’re fighting coming through the metal roof?
Cheers
G
1 Like
I have been running the AC Infinity T6 on 5 this entire time. I’m not entirely sure where to set it and at what times to set it.
I thought I recalled you saying running the T6 on 5 (generally) was the most efficient setting for that extraction fan.
What the heck is a “lung room”?!?! 
I suspect that is where the heat is coming from, yes.
However, I guess for extended periods of high heat the brick walls could be absorbing it and transferring that heat into the Classroom. It is a double stacked wall, with a air gap in between. That is a supposition, I’ve never seen inside these walls, yet! IF my plans are advanced I will be seeing the interior of the wall at some point in the near future, probably more than one wall.
Also, I haven’t finished insulating the Attic yet. I looked at it last night! I have been hoping to get an electrical outlet up there to run a fan, that has not been accomplished yet. Waiting on a most generous electrician. Dude is awesome. I just have to wait until he has some free time. A 4-way outlet is planned for the Attic. It’s on the current list.
IF you had any recommendations that I should consider I certain would entertain it or them
I don’t want to be an imposition - ever!
Edit Add: I should clarify. I can see inside one section of wall, but it’s an interior wall and the exterior walls my be constructed differently. The below picture is the inside of the interior wall, behind the kitchen sink. It looks to have 2x4s on face. It’s where the “Pocketdoor” used to be for the “Cloakroom”. It was removed as not saveable, I was told. I did not agree at that time - I kept my opinion to myself at that time. Now it has fallen to pieces, literally 
, my friend!,
WHAB
2 Likes
Sorry, lung room is the room the the air is coming from for the grow area.
With tents, it’s usually the room they are in. The idea is you control the environment (RH and temp) in the lung room and thereby the grow.
Here’s something I’ve had good success with keeping brick walls cooler:
Boston Ivy, a self-clinging vine. Big-ass overlapping leaves shade the wall. Trouble with Boston Ivy it can grow fast, you need to prune back 2~3 times a year.
The leaves drop off in the fall and then you get direct heating on the wall in winter… 
Can’t get greener than that! 
I have an idea for the roof…
A significant amount of the radiant heat on the roof can be reflected with a flat white painted surface.
If you have a roof vent along the peak you can move a large amount of cooling air along the underside of the metal roof up through the top vent by convection. To make that more efficient you need a lower surface on this plenum. Maybe 10 mil plastic sheet stapled to those… 2x4?s.
I’ve looked at your roof pics again and I keep getting the feeling those bits of 1 x 2"s are more structural than I thought…
…That roof construction still gives me the willies… 
Cheers
G
2 Likes
First, thank you!
I have a faint recollection of the use of that phrase - Lung Room.
They, my brother’s wife and my niece, toiled long and hard to remove all the wall clinging plants before ever starting on the interior. IF memory serves, all but one wall, the West wall, had clinging plants on them.
I suspect they wouldn’t appreciate my replacing it
I have also heard over the years that Ivy on Brick walls don’t go together. The roots can burrow their way into the cement.
I’m not refusing your suggestion. Not at all. I just have to consider the owner’s opinion in that regard.
I have considered using the plasticized roof coating. It would also encase the screws up there under a rubber coating making it less likely to leak. No leaks that I have seen to date.
No ventilation up there at this time. No The Eaves are either missing some of its parts or rotten beyond usefulness. There is pretty good cross ventilation in that there is scant material blocking any air movement up there.
I do have plans to install Gable End Vents and do exactly what you suggest!
Yes, I agree with you regards the Trusses. Yes, old rough sawn 2x4s. They are certainly different.
I couldn’t hardly believe it when I saw it but, the Trusses are more Tripod than straight Trusses. The Rafters land on the inner Brick wall about 10 inches offset from the peak of the Truss. I’ve never seen anything like it. IF in the pictures you see where a Rafter land on the inner wall it belongs to the Truss about 10 inches North of what you’re seeing. Weird! The peak is directly above the Lower Chord but the Rafter tails land behind (South) of that point.
It may add strength over a standard Truss. It’s the only reason that makes sense in my Overripe Melon! Anything with 3 or more contact points is a lot stronger than 2 points of contact. A standard Truss could be easily pushed over. These 3 legged Trusses should hold up much better. It reminds me of a Tripod sort of arrangement, IF I discount I’m looking at a Roof Truss!
I showed the Electrician the last time we were up there together. He was gobsmacked! He’d never seen anything like this either.
I will certainly do the Gable End Vents, and staple sheeting to the undersides of the rafters.
Thanks, man!
I really appreciate the time you’ve taken to help me. I could not appreciate it more, brother @Gpaw!
,
WHAB
3 Likes
Hygrometer Salt Test has been cancelled before I even get started!
It requires more salt than I have on hand. It requires more salt than I’d EVER have on hand!
I don’t typically use salt for anything. French Fries and Corn on the Cob are the exceptions.
I bought one of those Salt&Pepper sets like you’d take camping. That was about 7 or more years ago. It is mostly full still.
I never have that much salt on hand. I don’t like salty food.
Nothing against my salt addicted friends!
I have friends use so much salt that I wonder why they’re eating top $ steak and don’t get to taste it, they’re eating Salt! They smother their food with Salt, like they’re putting Sugar on the Cereal or Oatmeal!
I’m window shopping for the most accurate Humidity sensor I can find.
But, that only adds to the dilemma. Which one of the FOUR sensors (at that point) is trustworthy?!?!
,
WHAB
2 Likes
That makes some ‘foggy sense’ to me, a series of connected (tripod = triangles) can make a strong and flexible structure.
It’s a 100 years old and the roof is still attached… That’s way beyond random chance… So, there is some method to the madness, I just don’t understand it… 
Cheers
G
2 Likes
Yes, it’s had me beyond puzzled this entire time.
I mentioned it to the Electrician only because he’s no doubt been in more local Attics than I have!
He was literally gobsmacked.
Yeah, it looks rickety, but it has been around a good long time…and we get some weather here.
I have a picture somewhere where the crook in the East roof lifted in irregular high winds coming from the East one year, a couple of years ago now.
My SIL and I screwed it back down.
When we have a storm roll through checking on the roof is the first thing I do.
Btw, I have even priced out the quantities of that Rubberized Roof Coating and will try to fit it in the budget someway somehow! In White.
I’ve priced out some Roof Hooks, too!
Thank you, my friend!
You !
Edit Add: I looked for the picture of the roof lifting off. I can’t find it. The arrow in the picture below is the point where it lifted off. It lifted off about 8 or 9 inches 
,
WHAB
5 Likes
Also in that last picture, you can see that a lot of the Fascia is missing. What’s a little less obvious is that this used to be a 2 piece Fascia. It was trimmed.
None of the trim remains and it’s completely open to the environment. There is about a 1-1/2 inch or so gap around all the Eaves (there may be small portions of it in place. I just ).
You can see a lot of the outside from the inside in daylight.
,
WHAB
3 Likes
Hey, @Gpaw … how do you measure your Humidity accurately?
I have my Dehumidifier set at 35% and it runs full-time. And, yet, you see the Humidity of the space, just ignore that the #s are coming from 3 different devices with 3 different readings!
Or any of the rest of yous - how do you measure your Humidity accurately?
How do you control your humidity.
Is there something I should be doing that I’m not?
Thank you all in advance!
,
WHAB
2 Likes
Room or tent? What do you use for airflow? What is your RH in other areas?
1 Like
Room.
Passive intake ventilation, powered exhaust ventilation.
Here’s what Acurite says is my RH at my desk…
…it is my only device capable of measuring RH in the Classroom.
AccuWeather is saying the Humidity is 60% outdoors.
Thank you for helping out, @DougDawson !
,
WHAB
1 Like
So is your humidity to high or to low in your grow space. That’s a very low reading so if it’s too high can you set up something to bring in air from that space? Forced rather than passive.
This is something!
I ordered Water Softener Salt from Walmart. I would have picked it up but on their website they steered me to a Delivery mode.
For a few days, before today, I was getting messages saying something like “we couldn’t deliver because no one was home or business is closed”…something like that.
I got that message (those messages) for more than 3 days.
Mind you, and it’s really the only reason I’m bringing it up, I bought TEN bags of Salt.
I was getting TEN identical messages for EVERY bag of Salt. TEN messages back-to-back-to-back-to-back…etc.!
After getting those TEN identical messages yesterday I determined something was up.
They must have been trying to deliver these TEN boxes to the other residence on the property, one that is basically vacant - a Nephew is occasionally there, most of the week he is not.
I have a pretty big sign at the head of the driveway with a quite visible arrow “Delivery to Xxxxxxxx <—”.
They had to drive past that sign every time they texted that no one was present or the company was closed.
I had to get Fedex on the phone last night to get it straightened out.
They were finally delivered to the correct residence. Walmart did ship them for Free, but still!..
I’m lucky they survived, I guess!
I just counted from the pictures and I ‘might’ be short one bag.
I have to go out and add them to the system.
I’ll be back!
,
WHAB
4 Likes
The Humidity in the grow space is undetermined, precisely.
I have those 3 devices measuring it but I don’t know which one is accurate, which one is trustworthy.
Where that Humidity reading came from is the space where the passive air is coming from.
It is currently getting that air from that space passively. With the powered heat extraction - AC Infinity T6 - it is bringing that 32% RH into that space.
Passive intake, forced extraction, from the Lung Room, I suppose and out the Attic.
With the A/C unit pulling hot air out of that space as well.
I typically don’t worry about RH in any grow that I’ve had because I don’t have much control over it other than what I have in place now.
I’ve never had a problem with RH, historically.
I’d just really like to know what it really is in there.
Thank you, @DougDawson!
,
WHAB
1 Like
That’s a good question, one I looked at a while. I bought a flock of those little humidity/temperature instruments and wanted to check.
You can do a simple one point calibration involving a salt paste.
Some of the hygrometers they use for cigar humidors can be calibrated and that’s how they do it.
Cheers
G
3 Likes
I’m still at it…I had to do a paper trash burn, too…I will be back.
But, I just realize I have Salt - 400lbs of Salt!
,
WHAB
2 Likes
I am in Canada, if I want 400lbs of salt I just rinse off my car in winter
4 Likes