That’s what’s it’s all about. The community sharing opinions. Believe me when I say I’m here to learn.
It doesn’t matter to me what you call it, as long as it’s good smoke. Hell I got a “cultivar” that i call dookie breath. And hell no it doesn’t smell like poop. This shxt good. Lol pardon my vulgarity.
Cannabis jargon and misuse is definitely rampant. But these clone only elites are actually very close to what fruit growers would consider cultivars. All grown from cuttings/graphs off a particular plant that was chosen. Most fruits are actually very hard to breed towards certain traits, so inherently “unstable” from plant to plant. Once one is chosen, it is tested in various climates and conditions. Then it is patterned/trademarked as that particular variety, usually comes with the legal stipulation of not reproducing it asexually (taking cuttings). Though these fruits I’m thinking of are perennials like bushes, brambles, and trees. The cannabis breeding/cultivation will be closer to that of tomatoes and peppers. Though I don’t know of any peppers or tomatoes that are known only as a “clone only” variety. Then again, some one may have grown out a some seeds they saved from hybrids and really liked it, but knew seeds saved from it wouldn’t be the same so they took cuttings.
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I read before how diseases kill the banana. So the banana that you see today is a clone of the survivor/ survivors. I forget which it is.
To my knowledge most cannabis varieties were originally found growing in patches. Who know how long that patch has been there. It adapted to the environment from which it grew. Thus surviving.
It’s understandable that mixing these finds will cause hybrid vigor. The combining of any 2 unrelated cannabis variations, theoretically should produce offspring that’s better than either parent. I’m I wrong for assuming that this is the effects that breeders are looking for when they combine different varieties?
My question is, how can a breeder expect to achieve the effects of hybrid vigor, when the combing varieties are closely related? My experience tells me that it just doesn’t work like that.
On the other hand, If one of the parents were the product of a vigor combination, it could pass these vigorous genetics into in its offspring. But there is a limiting factor.
You would have to think that you are adding vigor to non vigor, which would eventually result in a medium effect. So eventually, the vigor is lost.
In my opinion hyper vigor can be achieved by breeding 2 unrelated hybrid vigor varieties together. Theses offspring will be unlike anything seen before. Hyper potency, hyper terpenes, accelerated growth speed can be achieved.
Lets theorize and say Columbian x Thai will result in hybrid vigor. Which is proven.
Afghan x Lebanese = hybrid vigor.
Now take the offspring from both hybrid vigorous creating crosses and combine the 2. The results should be hyper vigorous offspring.
This can be continued as long as new strains are found across the globe. This is what the early breeders where doing. They were not just hacking varieties together just to see what they get. They knew what wound happen when they crosses unrelated cannabis varieties.
Somewhere in the rush to provide cannabis seeds, the proper breeding practice was lost.
And it shows in the smoke quality. So you are very right when you say that you can remember when bud used to be good. Look what breeders are doing to it now. What do they expect.???
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That’s a MAC1 bx1 cross from someone lol 
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There are all kinds of wild type bananas. Apples, mangos, you name it. Commerical fruits are a good example of what can happen when you clone and dont sexually reproduce. But the poster above you is right in that its done because fruits often have variable progeny. wild apples and mangos are a good example, they produce seed with high genetic variability and in the wild you can see that the fruits will reflect that.
The commercial bananas are seedless, hence needing to be cloned. The cavendash, the original commercial banana, still exists but was wiped out commercially by disease due to losing its resistance. They say cavendash tasted phenomenal and the modern commercial cultivar is bunk… Idk tho, never had the OG. And the modern commercial type is in a precarious situation.
There are dozens of healthy banana types, you just will never see them in a supermarket.
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Yeah I knew there was other types of bananas, so I didn’t understand the article. Now it makes sense that it was the commercial variety.
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awesome presentation
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The only thing worse is when they call it a “strand”. 
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So Skunk was one of the earliest really well documented full breeding programs I’m aware of. You’ve mentioned a few other strains here that were specifically bred for cultivars. Is there any reliable criteria for selecting strains you’d consider ‘foundational’? I don’t mean specific breeders or anything, just what lineages you think should be starting points?
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Interesting point brother and unfortunately the answer to that question is beyond my scope of practice.
But let’s see if we can relate. Many smokers today do not remember a time when bud had seeds in it and sinsemilla was this great bud that we all heard about but never had.
Rappers still speak about seas in their songs. It’s like kush on the streets. Then the gas and the loud. Now guys talk about how they got gelato, gsc, gg4 nah… they got that Gary Payton. So you feel me, the chances of you having any of those strains is very slim unless you got it directly from the original breeder.
Let be theoretical, So before the sinsemilla, guys would buy their Chocolate Thai that had a bunch of seeds. It’s pretty good so this guy would grow a few plants out from the seeds. This is where the problem begins. He tells his friends that it’s chocolate Thai, but realistically he has no idea of what the strain is. Cultivar that is.
Cannabis like that spread all of the country and not many know the original heritage. They just say it’s this, it’s that. The same thing they did in the 60’s they are doing now because not many people have direct access to landraces from other countries.
So brother you have to get in where you fit in, and believe whatever helps you sleep at night. When I get my hand on a particular cultivar, I grow it , then smoke. Then I decide what to do with it.
So whatever hype is on it goes out the window after I put it in my lungs. With me it’s either, yeah, or neigh, or I can work with that.
I don’t ride the hype trains, I just see for myself.
And even if I don’t prefer “said” bud, I still will not knock it because I’m sure it great for someone whose tolerance is less than mine. Or someone who wants something with a calmer effect.
So when the less tolerance people say it great, then the low tolerance people say it sucks, who are you to believe.
All I’m sayin is just grab a cultivar and work into something that grows and smoke how you like it. Make sure it has the structure, yields and resistance that you prefer in it. Then pass it to your buddies to see they fell about it. One of your buddies just may have something that blend nicely with it. That’s how the old timers did it. And that’s why the bud is so much different today. No one want to put in the work that it takes to have a nice strain. Just look over me guys. I’m just talking.
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I bookmarked this to come back to in the coming year(s)! Thank you!
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How about ‘strandivar’?
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Got this strand of Pot called ‘OD Kush’ 
@Blu-Tri I get your point, and I knew it was a BIG question to ask (and that I framed poorly) but thank you for the advice, it seems sound to me.
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Dude, yer making me feel REALLY old now… LOL… I had a food tray or record jacket (double albums were the best) for separating seeds. Always hated that task… LOL
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Right brother those were the days. It was good then. I love Janis and jimmy, Credence and a lot more. Those skipping vinyl were great too. So I guess I’m that old too.
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Hi @Blu-Tri, nice post. This is for me. Lol, and thank you. I have read a while ago about breeding and even ended up w an F1 which, as you mention, isn’t really breading but fun and exciting none the less. Pardon my possibly sill question…
Is it acceptable to use clones of the desired phenos @ level g1 or would this be 4 individual random plants from seed to get the widest spectrum of traits from the chosen cultivar?
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I should have looked at my photo edit longer. I don’t think that works!
Using the clones is fine, you have to start somewhere.
Let’s say you cross two clones to make seeds
That’s an F1 now grow two of those seeds out
Cross the f1 plants together to make new seeds.
Those new seeds are first generation and can show either parent or across of the two.
Personally I am looking for the one that shows both parents at one time because that’s the reason I made the cross.
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Say you make your f1 crosses and then breed them together. Right. So now have a gen1 by by combining the f1’s. From there you have 2 options
Option 1: make seeds by breeding a pair or gen 1 together resulting in gen 2.
Options 2: take your gen1 and cross it to something else and making a new f1 cross.
If you are asking why the new cross isn’t a f2 or gen2, the reason is because you added new genetics, thus creating a new f1.
Each time add new genetics, your f-counts starts back to 1. It can get complicated but it’s best to keep it simple.
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I personally don’t give a fuck who bred the beans aslong as they produce some good smoke in the end who really cares honestly
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