12/12 from seed to harvest

[Palindrome]

We all come from different walks in life, sure making clones aint free but IMO far from costly.

12/12 from seed can be a great way to test seed, I have done that on fairly large scale with 100’s of seedlings.

And if we are doing pics, let me join in and share some from my old op.

Clones for the bud production, under a few 36 W fluro tubes. They are grown 12/12 from clone, they spend 3 weeks on the table, from they where cut from the mom.

Spend 2 weeks like this, then repotted getting ready for the flower room a week later.

The flower rooms, where 2x 15.000 watt HPS - Running that, compared to some flurotubes a few weeks. That is not a cost you really calculate into the budget, but you are right it’s not a zero cost.

I’ll show some of the growing

Sat dom plants 12/12 from seed
Early

Later, but far from harvest

Canopy is crazy and out of controll!

Indica dom 12/12 from seed

Canopy is much better and even, but the time spend till harvest don’t pan out compared to clones.
Yeald was fairly even.

Clones 12/12

Canopy looks like it’s cut with a hedge trimmer, 10 weeks for a 10 week strain to harvest + 3 weeks rooting.

I am not selling anything, this is just my experiance.
Others will have other experiance I am sure, and that’s not a problem for me.

Im sharing my experiance, in how you will make the most for less in less time.
If some can use it, use it, if not feel free not to

Cheers ya’ll

[Worcestershire_Farms]

@SpeesCees

There’s a big mistake in the idea of some growers.
Germinating on 12 hours will show you in 18-20 days max who are the males and who are the females !

I have never seen it earlier than day ~30 across a large number of strains. I am getting the feeling your techniques, have been fine tuned to fit your system, which had been fine tuned to fit the strains you have fine tuned over 10+ years each to fit your technique

We havent recreated the specific results you’re seeing because we are not running the genetics you are running under the exact conditions you are running.

[Fuel]

@Palindrome

And if we are doing pics, let me join in and share some from my old op.

Not exactly.

More : And if we are doing pics about the SOG from seeds method (or even clone, why not), to give an idea to McMuffin and others members interrested to digg or to experiment this question, without be fooled on the subject.

I’ve not studied in Holland like you, i don’t have any degree btw. It’s mainly why cannabis hired me so young, to talk true. But i’m able to recognize, decades later, a plant than is hormonally locked by a SOG. And a plant that is not.

Maybe you don’t get me on it, but let’s imagine than i show you this pic :

Then just after, i try to sell you the fact than this plant never saw a 18/6 or 24/0 photoperiod. What do you will think about me ? How much credibility i will gain for furthers discussions ? That’s my point.

The first part of my share are a 100% pure africaan IBL shown in a very obvious perpetual setup. I’ve choosed this pic specially to show what happend (hormonally, i insist) to plants than grow usually at 5 meters height outdoor without this treatment.

The second part of my share are (sweet tooth#3 x skywalker) hybrids than we’ve worked with my friend, back in the days. To show the big difference than exist with twos well known stretchy commercial strains (than no longer exist in the market, to do a loop on my considerations about homebreeding), but than finish both below the 2 meters height outdoor.

Anyway, soon i will document in depth what is a SOG from seeds and from clones. Because i love this “walk” since the dutchs have converted me to this method, long time ago.

[Palindrome]

I don’t care if you have a degree or not, or how you grow, I hope the way you grow makes you happy.

Im sharing my experiance and results, if that’s a problem for you, that is your problem.
I have no problems, I grow how I like and if anyone can use my results great.
If not, and someone can show me, I was wrong, even better. Then I learn even more, from my experiance.

So if you can show me, and everyone else. How 12/12 SOG from seed can be faster, cheaper and better then from clone. Man that will be cool, so let’s not argue about it. In my experiance it’s not, and untill I see otherwise. I’ll keep my right to stand by my own experiance, and hope that’s cool with you and everyone else.

I have nothing to prove, im just here to share experiance.

And nice looking plant, I can only see one pic.

Happy growing

[5o5love]

I think clones being sexually mature has a lot to do with production. Yes seeds ran 12/12 do a great job and I feel you can pull great yields in a SOG environment. That being said I think you need to take into account the sexual maturity of plants. Recently I have been part of rather large phenohunts and what we have found is that if you take the seeds to sexual maturity before flowering intersex traits seem to go down drastically. Clones from immature seed plants that showed intersex traits were then allowed to veg to sexual maturity. After vegging to sexual maturity these plants stopped showing intersex traits in flower. I know if you run stable seeds this does not matter but if sexual maturity effects intersex traits and node development maybe it also has something to do with flower/resin production.

[McMuffin]

@Fuel

Anyway, soon i will document in depth what is a SOG from seeds and from clones.

Please do! I’m not the only one that wants to learn everything about this method.

[Fuel]

In a first time, i think than the more important is to show the development of what is a SOG (from clone or from seeds) and how to recognize it in ease. To clear the forest of hypothesis, but also to show in details the real constraints than it involve. And let people interested by it to balance themselves with the advantages of this method, in all objectivity.

Now, I’ve answered you in depth about my real experience on both options about the weed production. Which tend in favor of the clones, specially for large scale op. And i have explained why in bonus ^^ So, put your fatty down, read again my answers and tada … you will see than i was saying than you was right on it. Even if you look to don’t expect anything but the reverse, i’m sorry for that. Rationality sometimes cement opposite people.

I disagree only on : the use of the GPW to evaluate the costs per gram, to say than harvesting motherplants planned for SOG (than is a high turn over method) cost nothing and on the necessity to veg a clone or a seed to get a better weed.

Fortunately, we can have a (nice) polemic on another thread on twos of these three point of view. The last one can be only debated with the buds on the table and a decent jury, better to ignore it in term of logistic for the moment.

And yes, it’s exactly the point of the thread : sharing initially our real experience about the “12/12 from seed to harvest” in all integrity. To show than you grow like you want and than you don’t give a fck, we all have grow logs for that right ? ^^

My only problem is biased exchanges on a method than is finally very bad known today, not you lol

But damn guys, do you think seriously than dutch cofeeshops are not mainly furnished by SOG op for the inherent advantage than it mean in term of productivity per year ? And i don’t speak about surimposed spaces in term of productivity per sqm ^^ I known … and it see it coming lol : “they all sell bad weed and i have better at home”. So, OG cup 2019 and let’s beat the ass of the dampkring !!! lol I’m in !

I don’t have wired my pollen box today, just lurked and chilled in OG ^^ fck

[cannabissequoia]

I’m guessing that SOG sea of green, screen of green was an adaptation to the common indoor environment (of it’s day).

When it’s business, it’s math, maximization, etc…“valley” forms/shapes…

(that weird rotisserie grow-pod…)

When it’s for personal use, all that capitalist efficiency non-sense doesn’t matter.

(NorCal Redwood Trees with Pineapples)

With that in mind… It seems that SOG eliminates any non-budding canopy space, logically.

Great honest debate - no throwing!

well maybe a little

[McMuffin]

@Fuel

So, OG cup 2019 and let’s beat the ass of the dampkring !!! lol I’m in !

I very much like the idea of an OG Cup! I think that the “noobs” and “novices” here could really surprise themselves and others with what they are actually capable of, especially with all the knowledge and experience available to everybody here.

[SpeesCees]

@Palindrome

I am not selling anything, this is just my experiance.
Others will have other experiance I am sure, and that’s not a problem for me.

Im sharing my experiance, in how you will make the most for less in less time.
If some can use it, use it, if not feel free not to

Cheers ya’ll

If that clones are pure Indica’s… then I’m a dog !

SpeesCees

[SpeesCees]

@Palindrome

Im sharing my experiance, in how you will make the most for less in less time.
If some can use it, use it, if not feel free not to

Cheers ya’ll

Nice pics…but I still don’t see the real Indica’s !

SpeesCees

[SpeesCees]

What we all forget is : With clones you can put 16-18 plants under a 600 watt.
With seedplants you can put easy 36 plants under 600 watt and you will find out the profit of the head buds. It’s the head buds whore giving weight in the scale… not all that side grow from clones. That’s only bringing a lot of side grow and a lot of cutting work.

SpeesCees

[SpeesCees]

@Palindrome

I don’t mind your selling seeds, but be straight up about it! If not old growers like me, will call you out on your sales tricks.
Not to belittle you, but to help the novice guy who might fall for your sales tricks. He should know both sides, before he makes his choice.

Here I have to scratch on my head !?
My sales tricks ???
You can’t touch me harder then you are doing here.
I’m out of this topic !

SpeesCees

[spaceman]

Not a pro here and I am not growing for profit but I find the sativa dom strains won’t flower for me with 12/12.
I have to start seeds at 11/13 to get flowers.
Still get decent buds for my use.
Just my 2¢

[lefthandseeds]

Definitely noticed that Thai prefers 11/13, but Acapulco gold seemed ok with 12/12. Probably has something to do with proximity to the equator.

[zephyr]

that’s a good tip, I have some manipuri thai/laos ganja seeds from real seed co which I will be attempting to reproduce indoor.
I also have some acapulco gold seeds that came as a freebie from bodhi with a chinese sativa. apparently they are very old stock from the mid 70’s, so there’s no guarantee of success, but it could be something special if I’m able to cultivate it.

[OoohThatSmell]

Ok guys I’m venturing into the indoor aspect of cultivation this year since coming to realization of new development has been going on near my 7+ year plus guerrilla patch. Bummer because I’ve worked that freakin soil up so long man it hurts to just leave it all there and start fresh but life goes on. Being only having vegged and dried plants indoors lol I guess I may have to reach out to the experts for my couple concerns.

One being in a prohibition state you have to get crafty when it comes to an indoor setup. Now I’ve done all of my major research that I felt I needed as far as what I’m trying to accomplish here indoors. I figure I’m going to start out with a 4x4 pushing a full spectrum led from spectrum king. Met those guys and the vibe and info was strong as I mentioned to them what I’m getting into so that’s my brand of choice that I’m going with on lighting. I’ve pretty much dialed in all of pretty much everything I need and having to get. Now here’s the fun part.

My entire setup including fans, dehumidifier etc… will be running at 730 watts full power. I’ve estimated that at $22 and some change a month power wise. That’s a pretty comfortable margin for me as this is all new territory to start with.
A couple things I have to ask is concerning the light schedule lol. What do I have to worry about running at 730 watts 12 hours a day with most of that staying on after the lights go out. Is there any way I can negate the 12/12 footprint by using remote power i.e. generator for example? Or that 730 watts isn’t enough to worry about at a 12/12 cycle day in day out? Being a longtime outdoorsman I’m really excited about this this indoor thing for the first time in my life once I actually sat down and mapped it all out for weeks. Well here it is and it’s itching the green thumb of mines to get er done. Never thought I’d be doing indoor cultivation but I thrive in the clutch like larry bird. Any and all info is appreciated. Thanks in advance to all.
OoohThatSmell

[ReikoX]

I wouldn’t sweat the 730-watts. An aquarium or keeping reptiles would explain the extra usage and 12/12 schedule. Just pay your bill on time and grow on.

No smell, not sell, no tell…

[spaceman]

Lots of folks run servers from home too, 730 watts ain’t alot of draw.
I wonder about the new “smart” meters though.
Could they detect the type of equipment being run?
More than a WAG, I recall reading an article where Ontario Provincial Police having a device that could determine if you were using a radar detector, which is illegal there.

[Northern_Loki]

@OoohThatSmell

Is there any way I can negate the 12/12 footprint by using remote power

Solar? I think @99PerCent may be doing something like that. Maybe he’ll have some thoughts…