12/12 from seed to harvest

Advanced Techniques
,
1

I know it’s already past @SpeesCees bedtime, and this post is directed mainly toward him, but I figured I would post it before my “goldfish memory abilities” superpower kicks in and I forgot about it.

So, what are your experiences with growing from seed with 12/12 lighting cycle? Does anybody here grow like this? Is there any academic literature that supports or debunks the method?

Two things come to mind when I think about it…

  1. Only when I lived in Alaska was there ever 20+ hours of sunlight in a day. 12/12 seems to be more in line with natural day/night cycles. Now if only we could simulate the gravitational pull of the moon…

  2. The more hours of light, the more chance for the plant to grow. There are, however, considerations to be paid toward hormones that are regulated by light and dark periods.

What sayeth OG?

5 Likes
2

@Pedro_Bann does 12/12 from seed I believe… or at least has…

pretty good looking plants from what ive seen

3 Likes
3

I do it in my ghetto green house durning the winter and they just act like an auto would except it usually takes about a month and a half to 2 months to start to flower. . . I don’t know what @Pedro_Bann experience indoors was but I can’t promise a steady 12/12 like he can

6 Likes
4

I have done 12/12 from seed a bunch of times, IME works best for indica dom and 50/50 hybrids.
Or be sure to make room for big plants with Sat dom plants, they seem to take a bit longer before they start flowering.

With pure Indica like Afghan #1 the yeild was IMO too low, so I would avoid pure indica.

3 Likes
5

Basically it’s just a SOG, so you need to litteraly cover your space in using each square inch possible to fully enjoy this method for producing weed. It can be very problematic if you play the rules in a legal state with limitations, because the number of plants is drastically increased.

Like say Palindrome, you have to choose wisely your strains for that.

Technically it’s to give a pure equatorial climate to your space. At the difference than equatorial strains look like more trees and than they flower for some during an half year.

8 Likes
6

I did a Lambsbread/breath from seed about 30 years ago ,it works, but I had it in hydro and needed the tube so I gave up at 100 days or so if I could have hung in another month it would have been very nice.

2 Likes
7

http://www.nomercyseeds.eu/en/growinfo/12-12-system.htm

Wowwwww… I’m surprised that you guys don’t know how to breed/grow on 12/12 !
Time to read before we should discus it.
Please remember… I wrote that a long time ago and be sure it’s perfected in the mean time.
( like germinating the seeds and the lights we use these days )

SpeesCees

1 Like
8

Im not in the states, im an illegal grower and I don’t think about plant numbers at all.

Yes this works best with SOG growing, but I figured that was a given for 12/12 from seed.
If you can’t grow SOG due to plant count, I would not look into 12/12 from seed.

For me it was a good way to test seeds, and see how uniform they where growing and counting the different phenos.

6 Likes
9

Sorry but I have to disagree with pretty much everything:

  • Cuttings are expensive - No a cutting cost you a RW cube and a cup of water!
  • Cuttings make you dependent - no more then seed does, but the clone I know what I am getting.
  • If you’re lucky half of your cuttings will be healthy - Your a shitty cloner, if only 50% makes it in RW cubes.
  • You can’t be sure what variety you’re getting - What??? you make the mom from a seed, so unless you can’t trust your seeds, the mom will be exactly what you planted.
  • Cuttings need time to develop roots and often you will have retards - 1 or 2 yeah, but you see that with seeds as well.
  • Cuttings produce a lot of lateral branches that don’t produce significant buds - Bull shit, wrong and not correct.
  • Cuttings often come with eggs of spider mite and thrips - If your grow room have pests, starting seed in there will be no different.
  • To haul around soaking cardboard boxes full of cuttings really isn’t a good idea - who ever told u to do that? Would you transport seed like that???
  • Buying cuttings allows others to get a pretty good idea about when you are likely to harvest (dangerous!) Buying seed’s will also let them know you grow, but we make clones at home, it’s cheap and easy!
  • Trying to score cuttings guarantees a lot of stress - What a crack up, score clones… just make em.
  • Making cuttings yourself requires a lot of space for your motherplant(s) as well as a seperate cutting room. Bull shit, a small closet in the corner, will hold a mom and clones.
  • When using seed you only need a couple of fluorescent lights to decently grow your seedlings for the first weeks - I make all my cuttings under 15 Watt of LED.
  • Cuttings make for 20 times more manicuring than plants grown from seed - another strait up lie
  • Growing from seed will cost you significantly less electricity - um that depends on how you look at it.
  • Seedlings are much stronger and have more self regulatory power than cuttings - maybe
  • You can germinate seed in the same room as where you flower your plants - that is in fact correct.

Don’t flower for 7 weeks and harvest, that is gonna be some crappy weed if you do 12/12 on a 7 week strain and harvest it 7 weeks after planting. You can do that with clones, as they are mature but not with a seedling.
I remeber when ppl did this in Holland many years ago, i would not recommend this to anyone.

Add 2 weeks to the flower time minimum, when doing 12/12 from seed or you will harvest imature buds in my experiance.

14 Likes
10

Well… now at least I know who’s NOT a serious grower !
Palindrome… you’re writing such a lot of nonsons here…I’m surprised.
What’s clear is that You are writing out of your own vision with your own ideas and possibilities.

One example ?
By growing on 12/12 the plants will reach a lenght of 100-120 cm. anyway !

One more ?
We take from a 1000 watt light 1300 gram, cut and dry ! ( on 12/12 )

Do you realize how much growers and breeders in The Netherlands does grow on 12/12 ?

SpeesCees

11

Yeah the guy who wrote that stuff, he’s clearly a sales guy not a grower!
We can easy agree, he’s not a serious grower indeed!

I took part of my horticulture degree in Holland, yeah I am pretty sure I got an idea that we all grow on 12/12 at some point.
But that don’t change the fact, that growing 12/12 from seeds will not be better then 12/12 from clone in a SOG.
And the only reason to say so, is to sell seeds.

I don’t mind your selling seeds, but be straight up about it! If not old growers like me, will call you out on your sales tricks.
Not to belittle you, but to help the novice guy who might fall for your sales tricks. He should know both sides, before he makes his choice.

10 Likes
12

Got to agree that a seed on 12 12 will not start to flower for a month, minimum.

I am a fan of 12 12 from seed but I had the feeling that the first month will go by faster with less dark.

5 Likes
13

Why are you insulting another member? Please argue ad rem not ad hominem!

7 Likes
14

“Better” is very broad term. I’m not sure what you mean.

But from my experience plants from seed have usually bigger yield and are more vigorous than plants from clones (but of course I’m not comparing time needed to grow it).

There is no discussion that clones will react to light change faster than seedlings. There is a hitch when using clones and going straight 12/12 flowering one must be sure to let clones root properly.

6 Likes
15

Sry I didn’t catch at first it was his write up, it was a off site link and as I mention I disagree with pretty much all of it.
Used the frase, as I just read the word retrad. I can see how it can come off a little strong, my bad and Sorry for that @SpeesCees .

Just better will do, it will cost less GPW, it’s faster and the terp and resin production is better. You work with mature plants, seed’s run 12/12 from seed will never show full potential. Just like the first generation of clones, from a young mom won’t do a well as 3rd generation from a mom thats 9-12 months old.

As an old money cropper, I have to concider the total production price. If I can make the same GPW, for less money and faster thats more optimal. To me at least, and who don’t wanna save money on both power and seeds in less time?

Rooting clones cost next to nothing, it takes very little space or work once u done your cutting. That is no cost, it’s only a matter of not being stoned out your mind 24/7 and make your clones in due time.

Seedlings you have to take in count that about 50% will be males, unless you go with fem seeds. But we are trying to save money, buying fem seed every run would also be much more costly. Or you would have to make your own seeds, and deal with seeded buds and breeding as well.

I will any day recommend new growers, to save money on power, avoid seeded buds and let the breeding be done by breaders.

I’ll put it to rest here and pull out, have a nice day ya’ll!

9 Likes
16

Nice debunk Palindrome ^^ And classy.

I’m forced to disagree, but we are locked in this debate to show, comments after comments, how we disagree ^^
At this point, only to put the nuggets on the table will clear the debate between us. And will not profit to the community by the private aspect of this.

I say that with integrity and respect, and with a procedure in mind. Not in thinking to cheating you with a zamal hybrid than flower during 6 months ^^

I think than the GPW is an ineffective ratio to calculate the cost per sqm of a grow op. This is a thing than we can easily debate on a specialized thread imho. But to stay in the subject, i will never drive a grow op with a SOG from seeds ^^

For an important point : the uniformity of the quality. When you put a dozen of LBS on the table of “strain AAA”, your “customer” want to take any nugget of package and have the same quality/potency/taste in the whole bag. It’s pretty obvious for us i guess, but it’s not necessary limpid for people than don’t really realize what is the real constraints of a large scale op.

I disagree, to stay on the subject of large scales production. This cost must be integrated in your price per gram. And it’s very not zero ^^ The most expensive angle being the turn over of all your motherplants and theyr maintenance; and the high density of light required than permit to don’t be doomed between too harvest. If you can’t harvest enough clones between twos harvest, you’re fucked and your costs per gram drastically increase.

I respect that. It’s your vision.
But i’m thinking the exact reverse ^^

Since near 20 years now, the market has proven than it rely more on the renew of each generations of growers to fck them on the standart of quality than anything else. I don’t need to explain, facts are here, than today we are begging and sometimes we become mad for things than was widely available yesterday.

And breeders are the slaves of the market; to be honest, to share a testimony in a way and to be direct without any anger. I must say than i feel big respect for all of them, even for guys like Arjan, to be clear. It’s a big darwinian game, and no one is really responsible in fact. Democratization and the rule of large numbers are. It’s just a change of paradigm.

So yes, if you have access to your favorite weed and than it is something than you truly love : Don’t rely on the market to maintain it, or you will have big regrets. Genetic production (not seed production) is the next war imho, but i assume than it is a very personal angle of vision of the future.

Now, to give an idea of what is a SOG from seeds … it’s maybe fair to share some pics lol

Pure sativas on a penny-cost test of generation, sweet memories of this sick selection lol :

2008-12-21 22-29-30DSCF0910.JPG.JPG800×600 116 KB

Detail and tricks in photo, for the curious ones.

2008-12-06 23-17-22DSCF0739.JPG.JPG600×800 122 KB

2008-12-06 23-17-28DSCF0742.JPG.JPG600×800 88.4 KB

And to give an idea of what to expect from a 12/12 from seeds, in term of shape and to do a (nice) tribute to my last apprentice in breeding, in the same move :

stk#3.jpg450×600 42.2 KB

17 Likes
17

There’s a big mistake in the idea of some growers.
Germinating on 12 hours will show you in 18-20 days max who are the males and who are the females !
Plants will grow as fast then normal.
If they start flowering they are around 30cm. and you will be surprised how hard they also keep on growing besides the flowering proces.
SpeesCees

5 Likes
18

This must be a joke.
We are taking time after time at least 70% females.
Some strains even does give a higher % females.

SpeesCees

3 Likes
19

And ehhhh… I guess that you are selling those “pure” Indica’s ?
Be sure… there are no 100% Indica’s anymore !
Calling me a commercial guy was not that funny since we NEVER do advertizing.

SpeesCees

1 Like
20

True of Indicas, Sativas not so much. Like everything else about the hobby most things are strain specific.

That said nothing is going to perform to the same measurement if we are in a vegging state doing a 24/7 vs 12/12 and it’s not even close.

3 Likes