Adventures in hydro #3 - AAA or Air Atomized Aeroponics - for sure!

Just did a quick read through your notes and you are using a much lower concentration of pool shock than Im using.

I have been mixing up around 6 gm/gallon of 49% shock and then add 8 ML/gallon to the rez - and it still hasnt been enough.

Lower concentrations of chlorine will help keep my fuzzies much happier :slight_smile:

Wow! That would be awesome. Cant wait to try it now!

3 Likes

If you guys are on well water, it might be helpful to get it tested to see whatā€™s in your tap water. Might even be free through the county. i noticed my water from the tap was 7 foot three longest time, then after this constant rain all summer, itā€™s up to 9. I was going to get it tested but Iā€™m moving soon. So no point.

You could have organics in your water that could be filtered out.

2 Likes

Hmmā€¦ Looks like that kit is intended to be ready to use for mixing up stock solutions for the classic ā€œ3-2-1ā€, which means the proportions are slightly different than what I use. For instance, less CalNit and more Mg.

Should be fine, and I donā€™t know if you will need to tweak it for aero anyways, but if you have any questions Iā€™m happy to help.

[Edited to add] Also, in my notes Part B is the Epsom, and Part C is the CalNit, which is the opposite letters of what everyone else uses, but I prefer it that way because it reflects the correct mixing order. I get pretty stoned sometimes, lol.

2 Likes

My tap is municipal, but very low TDS readings and 7 pH straight from the tap. There could well be organics or other substances that donā€™t register, though. The city publishes a water quality report every few years, I should check. Good thinking.

I donā€™t have the budget for even a cheap R/O system, so it was important to find something that works with the water I have.

3 Likes

Im on a well, but it also has low PPM its usually around 80 PPM but has been as much as 120. PH is typically 7 to 7.2 maybe. Great taste and no smells.

I got a water report a few months backā€¦just have to find itā€¦

As far as filtering out biologics or other stuff, I tried RO and saw no improvement at all. In fact, my worst run last year (as far as leaf uglies) was all on RO.

3 Likes

It has molasses in it? Is this something new?

1 Like

@anon32470837

Way back when, when I was just getting back into growing after so long of a break. I used Jacks in a DWC setup. It was the easiest, most stable nute line iā€™ve ever used.

After the first couple res changes, it was obvious that it was ph stable.

I had switched to Megacrop mostly because of the hype bandwagon, it works good but there are considerations for case by case usages as you, Howard.Crane, and I have found out through our trial and errors.

I used to live in Silverdale. Beautiful area. Miss it occasionally but iā€™m to old to start over again lol.

2 Likes

Yes General Hydroponics CaliMagic, once I switched the funky res went away.

I think you would do well with the Jackā€™s 3-2-1 recipe. Seems to be right up your alley as far as tinkering.

My bad, it isnt listed as having molasses. It sure smells like it to me, must be the ā€œorganic acid chleated ingredientsā€.

3 Likes

This will be an interesting test. I dont see anything in the ingredients of Jacks that sounds like a buffer. If it does help to keep PH more stable that will be awesome!

I love Wa state. Its the most beautiful place I have ever lived. We have mountains, lakes, Puget Sound and trees trees trees where I live. I love the forest. The only downside is the rain and clouds. On the other hand, its always such a wonderful shock when the sun comes out it takes your breath away.

I used to use the GH CalMag. It sounds like I wont need that with the Jacks kit I linked to above though. The CalNit and magnesium sulfate/epsom salt will take care of that.

One thing I love about Mega Crop is the simplicity, but your correct about the Jacks kit option allowing for more customization/tinkering.

The Jacks should be here later this week. I have kidney stone surgery this thursday, so it may not be till this weekend until I can switch over from MC to Jacks.

Im very interested to see how it does. Even if it has no molasses, the organics may still be at least part of the problem when combined with my water. I dont want to blame Mega Crop though no matter how this works out. As was said before, its my water/environment that is the primary culprit.

1 Like

LOL now Im confused. Was that PDF you linked above from the Jacks people or was that your notes? Im not finding that same page anywhere on the Jacks site, but its a little buggy for me.

I did find this:

One of the most common fails when using a Part A and Part B system occurs during the mixing steps. How do you know what nutrients can go into what bucket? It seems quite simple, part A in its own bucket and part B in the other, but what about other additions and boosters? Certain nutrients in the fertilizer world just are not compatible with each other and when mixed in stronger concentrations they will precipitate. The most common culprits for these messy situations are Ca-P precipitate, when a high P formula is mixed with a high Ca formula (ie. Blossom Booster 10-30-20 with Calcium nitrate 15.5-0-0). Another very common one is when a grower attempts to add a nutrient boost from Epsom Salts. When Epsom salts (a Mg-S source) is mixed with a Ca source in concentration you will have just magically made yourself a very messy clump of Gypsum (a Ca-S source) in the bottom of your tank. Both of these mixing mistakes are quite common and I often say to growers, once you make this mess once, you will never do it again. Crunchy stuff at the bottom of the tank is NOT an indication that there is fertilizer in there, it is evidence of a precipitate that will not go back into solution.

Now I need to have another cup of coffee and try to get this straight in my head :slight_smile:

Those were my own notes. I made them for my own use, and so my wife would know the recipe if I get too sick to do it myself.

MOST people call it ā€œ3-2-1ā€ because (at least in the original version) youā€™d use 3 parts Jacks Hydro, 2 parts CalNit, and 1 part Epsom per gallon of fertigation solution, and designate them Part A, Part B, and Part C in the same order because the Jacks is sold as Part A (Jacks) and Part B (Calnit), and cannabis growers add the Epsom for additional magnesium.

BUT, you would mix it as Part A (Jacks) first, Epsom second, Part B (CalNit) last. It bothered me, to use A, then Epsom, then B. Iā€™m just weird that way. So for my own personal recipe, I just relettered shit to match the order in which it should be mixed: Jacks, Epsom, CalNit, Pool Shock.

I think that makes sense, but I too need some coffee hehe. I will come back in a bit and see if it still makes sense or if itā€™s just confusing the issue.

In any case, you know the correct proportions and the correct mixing order, and you can put any letters you want on your own bottles, lol :wink:

4 Likes

Ah, that cleared it up for me, thank you! I had missed some of the little details.

I will likely do the same as you as far as labeling bottles. My brain and memory seems to go into shut down mode when Im heavily stoned. I cant do simple math, come up with silly ideas, forget all bout LITFA, and forget where I left my brain, so KISS is important or I screw it up!

I just did a rez re-fill. This time I did NOT use the organic acid based Cal Mag I have. It occurs to me that it is at least as likely to be the problem as the Mega Crop.

It will be a few days until the Jacks gets here, so I will cut back on the chlorine and see if the bacterial bloom/smell comes back. That wont be 100% conclusive as there are other possibilities for the contamination, so we will see.

2 Likes

Day 56

Ok,

So, yesterday I noticed some leaf damage/ discoloration that looked a lot like what I had when the roots dried up after the last two times I left the nozzles OFF.

I checked the roots, and they had decided to go nuts and totally cover both nozzles. There was quite a bit of new air trimming going on.

I debated cutting the roots back, but decided to try another, hopefully less stressful option - I used my hand to lightly compress the root mass near the nozzles. These fuzzy roots act like velcro when they touch each other, so its easy to compact them together. That helped a lot, but it was obvious that it wouldnt last long plus there was still significant blocking - especially on the left side nozzle.

So, I did a quick and dirty hack job and moved the left nozzle up to the top of the chamber pointing down. It had to be quick and dirty because I didnt want to leave the root to dry out again.

To make a long story shorter - I had issues with the solenoid dripping, and low water flow rates which took some messing around and adjustments. The biggest thing was I had to raise the rez up another 6" to get a little more head pressure. The nozzles will suck water up vertically as much as 10", but the flow rate goes down, and it adds some delay before the water gets to the end of the nozzle and can be atomized. On top of that, when the solenoid drips, it empties out the tube and adds another delay - plus it uses a lot more nutes.

Anyway, the solenoid was an easy fix - there was a small piece of debris (looked like cat hairs!) caught in the valve keeping it from sealing. I really need to add that water filter, but I need some adapters. Have to make a trip to the hardware store.

With the reduced head pressure feeding the nozzles, the flow rate is lower, but I havent tried to measure it. It also looks like the atomization is finer with more smaller droplets.

This is better, but still not ideal. I cant get to the other nozzle easily and the location where I want to put it up top is completely covered by the plants, so I have no easy way to get back there, cut holes, etc without damaging stems and leaves. Hopefully, things will hold together for the few weeks until harvest.

Im for sure going to up-grade to 4 nozzles, shooting down, before the next grow.

3 Likes

This is what I saw this time. It was just a few leaves in three widely scatter places.

.

This is what it looked like last time I dried out the roots.

This makes me wonder is certain parts of the root mass feed certain parts of the plant? I was under the impression that each root would feed ALL the plant, but maybe not?

4 Likes

Me too. Thatā€™s an interesting question.

3 Likes

Theyā€™re amazing, really. Each vein on each leaf is a cable traveling, uninterrupted, to the tip of a root. The vascular bundles can work around most anything nature can throw at it, but prefer to send things straight along the path of least resistance.

3 Likes

Where did you find that @DiggySoze? I did a quick google and couldnt find any references or anything at all addressing the question of individual roots feeding individual leaves or different parts of the plant. Nothing one way or the other.

Im having second thoughts though. Large areas or the root mass are air pruning, but only a very few, scattered leaves were effected. The whole things just seems odd to me - but I am a long way from having a green thumb :wink:

1 Like

Thatā€™s a good question. lmfao. :grin: Iā€™m not sure, I believe i googled ā€œxylem phloem vasular bundlesā€. If you have a subscription to scribd thereā€™s a good book ā€œBotany for Gardenersā€ by Brian Capon.

2 Likes

Day 58

Well, NOT using the organic cal mag has - maybe - delayed the onset of cloudy water in the rez, but its back. It took longer to show up, but its back when I stop using higher doses of chlorine. No bad smell though.

Now - this does NOT prove much of anything other than I still have a source of bacteria somewhere. Is it the water or the air or my pump or or orā€¦

The Jacks will be here Friday, but Im having surgery Thursday, so it will be a few days before I can do the switch. If the cloudiness goes away after the switch, that will be more telling.

In other news, the plants are doing well. They are really starting to smell too. The more developed bud sites are showing cloudy trichs but most others are still clear and many still have zero trichs.

The roots are doing just ok. Lots of areas are smooth now, but other places are looking great. Id say Im down to maybe 50% fuzzies now or maybe a little less. No rot or bad smell, and no slime though which is good.

6 Likes

Day 59

Another point against the CalMag Im using and a plus for Mega Crop - maybe. I added some chlorine to the rez - as I always do when it gets cloudy and I dont have time to dump it and start over. Normally, the chlorine does nothing as far as I can tell. The cloudiness stays the same and if it smells, it continues to smell. This time, the cloudiness - mostly - went away!

There are way to many unknowns and variables to be sure about any of this though. Just consider it all anecdotal ā€œevidenceā€ that maybe Mega Crop isnt all bad :slight_smile:

I forgot to post pics from yesterday.

The screen is filling in pretty darn well considering where I was just a couple of weeks ago.


Some trich shots. I need to come up with a better way to hold the darn cam steady.

9 Likes