HB’s 4 strain DWC Perpetual Grow

So gonna try my hand at a fogponic system using ultra sonic misters.

What I have:
40 Gallon Craftsmen Tote
5, 6 inch net pots
3, Ultrasonic Mist Makers
4 inch Air stone
single line air pump
4 inch pc fan
3 digital interval timer

My plan:
Cut five 6 inch diameter holes in top of tote lid, one 4 inch diameter for fan. On the long end of the tote I’ve cut 4 holes, 3 for the mist makers and 1 for my air stone. I’ve cut all of these holes just a hair smaller than what needs ran thru them in an attempt to get this air tight. Ill also be lining the tote with an adhesive lined “window sealer strip” aka those kits you can buy to keep cold air out the cracks in your doors and windows. My air stone (not 100% I even need one but I have dozens laying around) will be centered in the tote, my mist makers on either side of tote and one opposite of my air stone. Each fogger will be set to run for 15 minutes at a time with 5 minute intervals of downtime in between each run. During each of these 5 minutes of down time, the first 3 minutes my down facing pc fan will blow down into the tote in an attempt to make the fog “bounce” down and back up into the roots without escaping leaving me with only 2 minutes of time where there’s little to no lingering fog in the tote.

Lighting:
2 HLG 550 V2 Rspecs
80watt HLG UVA supplement Bar
Red Flower Initiator bulb (for flower)

Nutes:
AN sensigrow A and B
AN sensibloom A and B
AN Big Bud

What am I missing or forgetting? Is there anything i’m not factoring in. Environment is stable temp and humidity wise, no pest or mold issues. Any suggestions on changes to make? Thanks in advance for your help

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Hello HandBanana! Welcome to Overgrow! Fogponics plan sounds awesome! As long as you use mineral nutes with mist makers, I think that it is fine. Watch out for salt build up. Don’t forget to measure pH.

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A couple of tips for you.

Most of the fogponics grows Ive seen, the fog mist is too ‘dry’, so you will probably want to keep a close eye on the roots - especially at the start of the grow. You want to be sure they are getting enough moisture to survive.

I know its hard to imagine fog that can be “too dry” but its a mater of droplet diameter. Most of the ultrasonic foggers make droplets that are 5 microns or less in diameter. The problem comes from the fact that the volume of water in a droplet changes as the cube of the diameter.

In other words, a 5 micron droplet has 1/8th of the volume of water as a 10 micron droplet. 5 microns is 1/2 of 10 microns, so 1/2x1/2x1/2 = 1/8.

A 20 micron droplet has 64 times as much water as a 5 micron droplet - 4x4x4=64

According to a NASA study several years ago, droplets with a median size of 50 microns are ideal for aeroponics. 50 micron droplets are 10x10x10 = 1000 times the volume of a 5 micron droplet.

Thats why 5 micron droplets are considered “dry”.

You should be able to get it to work, but you will likely need longer ON times to wet the roots adequately than you might think. It will all depend on the exact size droplets you particular misters produce.

You wont need an air stone except maybe if you want to stir the nutes to keep them mixed up. Micron sized droplets will reach max 02 concentrations (100% DO) almost instantly. They are all surface area and almost no volume.

That 4" fan may make things worse as far as dry roots. Droplets dont bounce off surfaces unless they are traveling really fast. They just stick to what ever they hit first. Your fan will probably just make them stick to the sides and floor and ceiling faster than they already would. Plus, you will be introducing more air that is a LOT dryer than the mist.

Those super small droplets will float like crazy all on their own. 5 Micron droplets take about
400 seconds or over 6.5 minutes to drop 1 foot. You dont need a fan. Just the force of the ultrasonic generator should propel them to the top of the chamber easily.

If you do decide to use an air stone, that will also generate a lot of turbulence in the air inside the chamber. It will be dry air, but it will move the droplets like crazy all by itself. I really dont think you need either one.

Be sure to monitor and try to control temps in the root zone. Between about 68F and 72F are ideal. Warmer invites bad bacterial growth, and colder slows things down.

Id also recommend you stay away from any organic nutes.

Keep us posted on how this goes. I think you are the only fogponic guy on the forum :slight_smile:

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Yep, generally I run DWC buckets with aeroponic cloners but decided to give fogponics a go. Plenty of test strips, plus a bottle or two of general hydroponics PH :arrow_up::arrow_down:
Thanks!

Thank you until the end of the time for this.
Luckily i decided against the fan, for that very reason before i decided to cut a spot out for it. I’m not 100% on what size micron droplets these produce but I’ll certainly find out. I knew that plays a role in it but I havent spent the time I should of trying to understand it better. If worse comes to worse the timer is $15 and mister is $13, I could always buy 1-2 more of each.

I haven’t checked them today since i put them in but I’m sure I could flip that cycle from 2 on 3 off to 3 on 2 off and have a constant flow instead of that minute or 2 of downtime.

I did at least run the system in a test run before putting them in the room. The 2 on 3 off combo kept a constant lingering mist in the tote 20 out of 20 times I checked it. But i definitely get what youre saying about the absorption and droplet size. I will absolutely keep you all posted and thanks again for the guidance.

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I have a couple of other tips for you.

You can likely run at a much lower EC than you are used to in DWC. Aeroponics allows the plant to make better use of the nutes. Maybe as low as 1/4 of what you’re using now. That will help with the foggers crusting up with mineral deposits too.

You should not have to worry about this next point if you are using hydroton in the net pots, and especially if you do go ahead with the airstone (I still dont recommend it).

The issue is getting fresh air into the root zone WITHOUT creating any drafts that will disperse the mist.

The hydroton in the net pots will likely allow enough air circulation in the system, but if you feel you need more, then be sure to do it in a way that prevents drafts and does not let light in. Roots hate light and drafts will kill your mist.

As far as checking the roots, I like to see just a few drops forming on them - especially at the tips.

This next pic shows what happens when things are a little too dry. The roots will take off horizontally. Much dryer than this and they start to air prune and turn brown - which you can see in the same picture.

More air pruning when things get toooo dry.

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Should I consider getting weather strips and lining the lid and top of the totes with them to create more of a seal?

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Well, thats hard for me to say for sure. I moved away from plastic containers for the roots almost immediately when I started doing HPA and AA aero. Plus your situation looks like its different from mine.

Over all, I tend to think sealing around the lid wont be necessary if its a standard Home Depot tote with a big over hang on the lid. If it just has a small lip, or the lid sits very unevenly, then I would seal it.

The things you need to juggle can be tricky to balance out.

For one, you absolutely must have fresh air in the rez for the roots. If there is no air circulation, everything will turn anaerobic and the roots will just rot. BUT - if you have any kind of draft or blowing air, your mist gets dispersed and the roots dry out or you waste a lot of nutes trying to keep them wet enough.

Thats why I mentioned the net pots having hydroton. Air moves through it fairly easy unless its choked with roots. It you dont top drip, the roots should mostly grow down seeking the water. Late in the grow, they may tend to get blocked up though depending on how long you run.

You might see if you can think of some other ways to allow for fresh air while keeping light and drafts out. Maybe a hole with a fabric covering and a light shield?

My situation is different. I grow in a small tent that sits on top of my work bench. The plants sit in the grow space in the tent above the bench top. The root chamber is suspended below the bench top and insulated from the heat thats in the tent by a layer of 1" thick foam.

The root chamber is actually two fabric pots stitched together to form a 55 gallon chamber - 24" in diameter x 29" tall.

The fabric serves two critical purposes. First, it breaths, allowing fresh air into the root zone, but with no drafts. Air can filter through the fabric, but not blow through it enough to disrupt the mist in the chamber.

The second thing is that as the fabric gets wet from the mist, that water evaporates off the fabric cooling it down. That evaporative cooling drops the root chamber temp anywhere from 7 to 10 deg F below what ever the ambient temp is. It works just like a swamp cooler. It works so well, I actually have to heat the root chamber much of the time.

To keep light out, and to help with heating, the entire area under the bench where the root chamber is, is surrounded by another layer of that 1" foam. A small heater sits in between the foam and the fabric and kicks on where ever the root chamber temp drops below 68F.

Im not sure how well my system might work in your situation though. It looks like your totes are in a larger room sitting on the floor? You might think about that though. I suspect you will have trouble keeping the root chamber temps low enough with the totes right out in the grow space. Thats also a common problem with most DWC, and ebb/flow, and other hydro setups that have the rez in the grow space.

Plus, my setup would be difficult to do for anything other than drain to waste, which would be hard to do with foggers in a rez. You would have to get creative. :slight_smile:

It just occured to me that one thing I said above needs some revision. I said you could probably run at much lower EC levels, but that will only be the case as long as the roots are above the water level. Once they hit the water, they are going to want normal hydro/DWC type EC levels. At that point you will be running a hybrid system.

Hmmm. It occurs to me you may also run into issues with the roots over running your foggers, so you might want to plan for a way to easily move them if necessary.

Even with my 55 gallon chamber, the roots have over grown the space on every single grow - even with just one single plant! Roots always go for the water source and will fill the space given enough grow time.

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Tomorrow I’ll take some detailed pictures and give a little better break down of my room. I actually have two systems not in tents, one 3 site DWC and now the 5 site Fogponics. I have 2 10x10ft tents as well, one being clones and veg, the other for my 12s. I’m taking the veg tent down and re-arranging everything as I went from a closet to a basement with one 13x13 area, and two 12x12 areas. I’ll be moving into the house soon, as of right now it’s just an arrangement with the property owner until this weekend. Once im there full time I’ll have more time to map my layout out. Two months ago I had 0 genetics, and some COB LEDs. A week later I had 6 different strains from ethos and exotics and 7 HLG V2 550 RSPECS. Kinda had to put it all together on the fly.

Edit: currently have a vivaspectra par 600watt over this system, not the HLG. These RSPECS can be a little much for freshly transplanted girls imo

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So I clearly did something wrong. 2 of the 5 are RIP and the 3rd one was looking iffy. The two that didn’t make it had two things in common. 1)both soil to hydro transplants. 2)on the side of the tote where I still had my interval timer set to 2 on 3 off versus the other side set as 3 on 3 off.
The third one that’s iffy was also a soil, but it was center of the tote.

Went ahead and put lining up around my open space, currently running a 17 gallon 3 site DWC and the 40 gallon 5 site fog system. Fog sytem is under a HLG 550 V2 RSPEC, 3 site is under philzon 2000w COB LED

Checked in on my flower tent, only have two plants in it for another 2 weeks, 10x10 tent, lst scrog, lemon headband kush and green crack. I only have 3 plants in soil, 2 of them are in this tent. Mixed up some AN sensi bloom part a and b day 3 of my 12s as well as a co2 bag, today is day 6 of 12s and these bitches have took off.

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I havent had my coffee yet, but I have questions :slight_smile:
Which plant are those roots from? They dont look all that bad.

The dried up ones are the transplants from soil? No roots outside the hydroton yet?

First thought is you need to up the timing a lot. Id even go full time ON until the plants get used to the new environment.

I think you’re going to find it difficult to grow plants with two radically different moisture needs.

The transplants from soil will need far more mist density to adequately wet the hydroton so it can wick well. You may need to top feed them untill some if the roots start down into the totes.

The other transplants (from your cloner?), that have established roots outside the hydroton, will need far less mist.

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I bought one of the House of Hydro 9 head fogponics system a few years ago. I don’t use it to grow with as I’m a soil lover. I only use it to run clones with, no pics in operation, sorry. I built a 70 gal res with two 42 site lids side by side on top.The unit creates a lot of heat even in 70 gal, so ran a chiller/circulating for temp control and that works fine. Clones give off a ton of roots and are usually ready for transplanting into soil in about 8 -12 days

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Little update.

Yesterday I lost two, one looked near its end as well. Things looked much better today for the little lady, roots starting to fishbone, leaves were standing nice and straight. The other two are that had no visible issues are going strong as well. I went ahead and turned the foggers back down to 3 on 3 off and am aiming for 2 on 3 off soon. Probably gonna buy one to two more so I can run them at 1 on 3 or 4 off.

My big girls, especially the lemon headband are looking sexy af right now as well.

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![photo_1587303861220|281x500](upload://8Bi00J 6SQtzQnI0PhZtD4LBlWV5.jpeg)

Today was a much better start than yesterday with the fogponic system. I sold one of my 10x10 tents yesterday(im so fucking over tents, just gonna build rooms) and moved some stuff around, took some inventory, etc. But two days ago I uad 5 rooted ladys in my homemade system, upon arriving the next morning 2 were DONE and 1 was on the cusp. After a day of TLC and watchful eyes, the near dead clone is look beautiful. I’m confident enough with things that I went ahead and put in 2 more to fill the system up to 5 once again. Currently I have 2 green crack, 2 lemon headband kush, and 1 blueberry cheesecake in this system. Now im considering building a single site system and transplanting one of the three you’ll see in the images below. Anyone think or feel a particular plant should be moved?

Flower tent(only two, both soil) looked beautiful. Green crack and lemon headband in here as well.

I also bought 4 interval timers, 3 single atomizers and 1 six head atomizer for future systems. Would like to run a perpetual in all fogponics with a touch of DWC towards the end.

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Ok so another little update. I FINALLY figured out exactly what was causing me problems. @Larry3215 had gave me a warning on this as well but I never noticed it was an issue on my specific tote. But the two net pots that had problems day one and those plants died, tried my luck again, better results but somehow my ultrasonic atomizer tipped and fell to the bottom. So I was only getting 1 minute of fog, on one side, every 5 minutes. Part 2 of my problem was, as @Larry3215 warned, my hole saw cut was a little sloppy allowing more fog to escape thru those two specific sites. I had a slab of soft neoprene inserts for my cloner, I removed the outer lining of it and wrapped one around the where the netpot and top of the tote meet, cut it to length, and used it to add a seal between net pot and tote.

I now have a 3rd atmomizer running as well. My center fogger is set to 1 minute on followed by 3 off. Every other day either the left or right is set the same way while the other side is set to 2 on 3 off. This rotates daily.

Today I also began monster cropping green crack and lemon headband clones and cut 5 blueberry cheesecake and 5 critical kush clones. My 2 big girls in 12s are looking amazingz happy and healthy .

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Oh also my green crack and lemon headband in 12s. I believe today is day 8 or 9.

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Glad its working better!!

hehehe I love the fog pics. Reminds me of old sci fi movies! :smiley:

Those other plants sure look happy!

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For anyone who may experiment with this one day, it takes at least 3 foggers per 40gallon tote, set to interval timers at 1 on 3 off, OR 2 foggers set to 3 on 4 off.

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With this system, would it be wiser to prune the roots and keep them from being submersed in the water or should I just Chuck an air stone in and let them grow as they wish in a DWC/Fog type of hybrid system.