I beilve youre referring to random cuts people have . im talking about bred plants prior to being selfed. If youre not its just untrue.
This your statement Its not true. You will get pheno variation not a plant that doesnt represent the mother.
Why would a breeders plant not be any less uniformed if it was selfed rather than f1
You stated the quality of a s1 of an elite clone dpends on the breeder. Now ypu have stated that you cannot influence and s1, which i agree with. Give 2 people the same cut of any plant and they self it will be the same resulting variance in the progeny. Selfing a plant opens up many recessive traits in the genome. Proven many times over by many people. Selfing a plant does not mean a clone of the mother. Its science.
A persons habitat will influence pheno variation. But were not talking variation in pheno.
You wrote plant that complete doesnt represent the mom it came from.
Why would a breeders plant not be any less uniformed if it was selfed rather than f1. Breeders plants are the elite.
Clone onlys are clone onlys because they are usually phenos of a strain. Someone could self it, and then search for plants that represent the mother the best and continue to breed for that expression. Anyone with knowledge on the subject will tell you that those s1 seeds are gonna have plenty of variation in them.
Depending on the plant. Not if the plant was bred it will have less variation than a f1 . Thats not what you said though. A s1 could totally not represent the mother .
An elite breeder cut will vary closely represent the mom.
Your confusing the hell out of me man. Obviously a cut will be the exact represention of the mother. Selfing that cut will not be an exact representation. Which is what i thought this whole convo was about. My original statement that started all this was that a s1 is not necessarily gonna be like the cut.
Im done man. It hurts my brain to keep going in circles and you keep changing your stance on the subject.
Youre statement implied If I ran a s1 of Wedding cake from Jbeezy I could potentially have a very hazy sativa plant in my garden. Thats just not true. I would have variation but it will closely resemble its mother.
Why would a breeders plant not be any less uniformed if it was selfed rather than f1
Ive said the same thing from the start. I keep talking about the one comment you made but you wont answer me.
Your putting words in my mouth.
Your right and im wrong. Im done. Have a good one.
Are I . Pheno variation and something that doesnt represent the mother are two different thing. Selfing isnt a copy machine.
Thats not cool , We are just having a discussion where we both dont agree. It dosent have to be like that. Im sorry you feel that way.
I dont feel anyway at all brother. Im good and i hope you are too. Im just done with the conversation.
Maybe im being a bit direct . Heres all im saying , ive yet to encounter what you have. Not saying you havent but I havent grown out what you have either.
Im sorry if I was harsh in any way.
Its all good man. I just do not know how to express myself any further that would add to the conversation. Also i feel like an ass for clogging up this dudes thread. Lol.
Fair enough… I think your a cool person , valued here. I just dont want to end on a bad note.
Not at all man. You seem like a really cool and helpful person around here. Glad your here.
@newb2.0. Sorry for clogging your thread man. Feel free to ask a mod to clean it up or i will go through and delete my nonsense if you wish.
Ya we should took this to PMs 
@LemonadeJoe could you clean up our mess please . We kinda took over his thread .
Hey guys, no worries at all appreciate the discussion and actually very much appreciate the resolution and understanding to not make it personal and extremely negative. I value keeping an example like this in my thread and also shows that some topics people need to discuss to come to terms together on, and in our world there are often disagreements between sides who interpret/explain things differently.
I honestly skipped ahead to see if i had to step in for a peaceful resolution. I’ll get back to reading the back and forth now that I know the conclusion.
I really do appreciate y’all handling this the way you did, and value both of your opinions as I see you both a lot on here.
Carry on, no need to edit the thread.