Hey @syzygy i apologize if this info exists somewhere already but I was wondering why you culled all the field trips? Instability?
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No nothing like that.
Was dealing with a lot and I didnât feel like transplanting them so I kept putting it off. Eventually I did manage to put them into 1 GAL pots. After some more time they became very rootbound again and then that insane cold-snap came with high winds and resulted in a power outage. Lots of plant damage occurred as a result and while I could have nursed them back to health I wasnât a fan of any of the options. Would have taken up too much time and space to get back to flowering under 1 GALS so I decided to just cull them all and try to save the SSDD mom.
Was actually pretty set on taking a hiatus for a while until some new (old) beans arrived. Not sure that I can see it through to the end since life is unpredictable. Was considering creating a thread for all that but since I realized we canât delete threads it seems like a bad idea with my recent hiccups in gardening. Will just attempt to log it to a private message and then shift it here at a later date. If anyone whoâs been following this thread wants to watch it let me know, but I do intend to re-post it here (or a new thread) if I donât mess it up.
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I got you, I just ask cause that one is one Iâve got in the fridge and am mildly interested in checking out, have heard varying reports in here from people, so Iâm still in âdata collection modeâ you could say 
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The majority of feedback that I gathered on Field Trip when I was in data collection mode was overwhelmingly positive. The SSDD male B used seems really nice from what Iâve grown (5) and seen others grow out. I wouldnât have culled them if I didnât have a 2nd pack in reserve.
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Thatâs good to know! Iâm racking my brains now for whoever it was that said they didnât care for it, although I guess opinions in general should be taken with a grain of salt, even in fact finding mode
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Only semi-negative comment I read about Field Trip was from nube and I took it more a cautionary anecdote. Comment was in this thread.
Also there was this on RIU
Iâm still very interested in trying it, just now isnât the time for me.
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Will end up losing this if I donât post it here, donât mind this post. Will make it easier to find later. Found some more old pictures taken around week 3-4. This highlights the potential stem frost much better, last round didnât frost this heavily.
SSDD âBubbashine phenoâ
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A hash makers dream!! Very nice @syzygy . Did you wash any of the Bubbashine pheno? 
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Thanks! And no I just vaporize flowers because Iâm a lightweight and only a casual user lately. The strength of hash is overkill for me so isnât something I get into anymore. I imagine it would be good for hash making given how frosty it is. Iâve played around with all that stuff in the past but am far from an expert when it comes to judging traits (ie trichome & oil characteristics) that are best for hash making. Itâs definitely good for vaporizing though.
Here are some bud shots that I posted of it way back in the Bodhi thread v1
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Well one thing to look for is pure return. Plant material in vs trichome heads out. And that pheno had plenty of trichome heads per sq mm!
Itâs a lovely specimen @syzygy !!
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@syzygy that is extra frosty 
Do you still have that one going?
I thought my keeper is loaded, but yours takes it to another level!
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Yeah itâs still going, but last run wasnât nearly as frosty as the pictures posted above (those were from the run that I made SSDD x Goji beans). Not entirely sure why. The flowers were still quite frosty, but the stems and leaves werenât covered to the same extent. I need to keep better notes of environmental conditions and all that. No idea about pain-killing effects since so far Cannabis has not proved effective at reducing pain for me when I have tried. Iâm not in chronic pain though thankfully so itâs not something I constantly test. It does line up consistently with everything Iâve read about bubbashine and the 10% bubbashine pheno Bodhi described in his SSDD listing.
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Was looking through some pretty old logs earlier. Hereâs some old blueberry stuff from DJ. F2s , f3s and crosses. Interesting looking mutants are abundant in these genetics.
Kind of cool, Iâve seen female flowers forming on leaves before but this is a male flower forming if you look closely.
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Cool pics of those mutants! Iâve always heard that DJâs later work with the BB threw out tons of mutants, cool to see them though. Do you think the line just started getting too inbred and the genetics got all whacky? Did you get any plants worth keeping out of those BB runs?
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These were from around the time that REZ was putting out SD IBLS on seedbou I believe. Maybe a bit earlier but probably not much. 06-08 probably? Maybe that was a different seed order haha. They came in his old manilla envelopes with a white tag on the back listing the cross and a Dj Short label on the front.
Any dates I apply to any of this old stuff is just ballpark guesses usually unless done recently. I did get one high odor plant with good trichome qualities that stood out but didnât keep it. Iâm not entirely sure what it was either, my best guess at the time was Blueberry F5 x Van but it may have just been a BB F2. I gave all of those beans away about 10 years ago or so. I believe I still have a few different Van F2 and F3s but in low quantities. Iâve tested those about ~8 years ago a few times.
I didnât see too much in the way of mutants in the Blueberry F5 line but a bit more came out in Fgens and tons in his Van (both F1, F2 and F3). In my mind blueberry genetics almost require a mass pheno hunt and elite clones are probably the smartest path to take if they are of interest. Lots of hempy and low odor stuff buried in there from my experience. They are also very sensitive to moderate to high levels of fertility. I hear Blue lines shine the most in out-crosses so maybe some day Iâll pop some more and dust with some males of Bâs stuff.
I remember making some rosin with some when that technique first started getting popular and the result was way different from other strains I was trying at the time. The rosin was almost crystalline and like thin glass or something like that and pinkish/purple, whereas everything else was more like tree sap. Iâm not a huge hash person though so maybe thatâs actually common.
Effects? Sure on some but Iâve found way more phenos with good effects in Bâs crosses so Iâm not really sure. I wouldnât be surprised to find out that there were some less common cannabinoids present or something like that, but I didnât and still donât have access to testing so who knows.
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As far as whether inbreeding is causing the mutations, or colchicine treatment of the Thai genetics I have no clue. Dj did put out an article on the subject and know heâs thought about it a lot more than I have.
Some of the Blue Family lines of cannabis (True Blueberry, Grape Krush, etc.) are known to occasionally sport various anomalies and irregularities. The main anomaly reported from these lines is that of the âkrinkleâ leaf type. Also referred to as a form of variegation this irregularity usually involves a twisting or convolution along half of the leaf divided along the central leaf vein. This anomaly usually affects anywhere from 5% to 20% of a given sample depending on the strain (TB = 5% to 10%, GK = 10% to 20%). In and of itself, this trait does not affect yield or the overall health of the plant. It is merely a simple deformity unique to this line of cannabis.
It is important to know the differences between simple deformities and more complex mutations. Simple deformities and anomalies are semi-common phenomenon whereas genetic mutation is by far more rare and profound. Most of the irregular expressions witnessed in some of the Blue Family lines are mere deformities. Very few are true gross mutations and those are usually sterile or non-viable (usually < %1).
I used to think that the deformities witnessed in certain lines of cannabis were strictly the result of a mutagenic regimen such as colchicine. Variegation in particular is a typical symptom of such a process. If such a process were used on the varieties of cannabis I have worked with, I assume that it was in the Thai lines as that is where most of these traits seem to originate. There is, however, another aspect to consider regarding these anomalies called transgressive segregation.
Transgressive segregation refers to the situation where the progeny from crosses of distinctly different P1âs exhibit characteristics beyond what either parent exhibited. A good botanical example is that of the cabbage family from which broccoli, cauliflower and Brussel sprouts developed from the same meager beach cabbage. This is the level of the diversity witnessed in the f2âs and beyond crosses of the plants that I have worked with.
The combination of the two very pure, unique and distinctly different varieties of indica and sativa resulted in the extreme variation in the f-2 and beyond progeny. This is where the anomalies, irregularities, eccentricities and effects of transgressive segregation are witnessed and isolated. It is from this extended diversity that new and exciting lines are discovered and isolated. Simple leaf irregularities are no reason to abandon a particular line, and perhaps are an indication of something worthwhile. Suggesting that these anomalies are in some way detrimental to the overall cannabis gene-pool is akin to suggesting that broccoli, cauliflower and Brussel sprouts are in some way detrimental to the cabbage family.
[Side Note: What may have been very detrimental to the overall cannabis gene-pool was the âwilly-nillyâ introduction of indica and indica-based genes to the equatorial regions of the worldâcirca 1980âs. The tropics are susceptible to aggressive takeover by dominant species and sub-species. This may be what happened to the fine sativa land races of yoreâcoupled with human selection for production-based indica varieties. Hopefully this phenomenon will be relatively short lived as human selection re-kindles the near-lost memory of the beloved land-race sativa.]
The structural differences witnessed in some of the Blue line individuals including anomalies such as leaf shape, leaf krinkle and color variations, along with basic aesthetic qualities such as range of flavor and palate, issues of duration, tolerance and even shelf-life are more than likely the results of transgenic segregation.
None of these minor abnormalities are in any way detrimental to the overall gene-pool. There do occur very rare instances of freakishly deformed and stunted individuals. Every one of these I have ever encountered has been sterile or non-viable. However, some have produced some of the most unique finished product I have ever sampled in terms of flavor, potency and effect. Unfortunately, these extreme abnormalities are not only rare and sterile, most are also nearly impossible to clone.Please remember, my number one goal when breeding fine herb is that of the finished product. All other factors; structure, color, growth rates and patterns, leaf shape, odor, flavor, height, flowering characteristics, even potency (please see my other comments concerning bland potency versus exciting quality in my book and other articles), etc. are of lesser concern. My secondary concern is the minimization and elimination of hermaphrodites. This is primarily for the indoor communityâs behalf, as it is my belief that true breeding equatorial (outdoor bred and produced) strains are all monoecious to some degree. It is the quality of the finished product that I aim for with all of my work. Structural considerations are selected for only after a variety passes the âhead/bodyâ test.
Please note also that I consider myself more of an artist than a scientist. I respect science for what it is (discipline and controlled focus) and enjoy its utilization, but for me it is still simply another tool with which to create. With that said please allow me to state that much of the science (definitive recipe) involved in supporting my goal (to discover, create and produce truly good herb) remains somewhat of a mystery to me. Due to all of the truly good herb I have had the good fortune to sample, I am confident in identifying what I consider to be truly good herbâwith or without the science. I am equally curious, as are many, regarding the scientific observations, disciplines and discoveries that support this goal.
Toward that goal there are a few points I would like to attempt to clarify:
The Purple Thai. As mentioned before, the Purple Thai was a cross between an outstanding Highland Oaxaca and a very freaky Chocolate Thai.
The Chocolate Thai was one of the most difficult plants to grow. It was dark and very asymmetric, rarely sporting any kind of a definite main-stem for any length of time. It was difficult to clone and very hermaphroditic, producing small airy buds at best. The herb from the Chocolate Thai passed the test (the progeny were at least as good as, if not better than, their parent), but had certain problems otherwise (structural and hermaphroditic). It was also similar in potency to the Highland Thai regarding strength, length and type of high.
The Highland Oaxaca was structurally a different strain (tall, with a definite main-stem, symmetric with less hermaphroditism and better formed buds). The two were crossed and the resulting seeds produced the famed Purple Thai that I was able to use for quite awhile. The Purple Thai exhibited the symmetry and desirability of the Oaxaca with the potency and dark coloration of the Chocolate Thaiâthe best of both worlds, and its hermaphroditism was much more manageable. It also cloned well. The plants from these seeds also passed the test of equal or improved quality progeny in terms of finished product. Personally I preferred the finished product of the Purple Thai to the Chocolate, not just due to its growth patterns but in terms of the overall effect. The original Highland Oaxaca produced the most desirable finished product, in my opinion, and has yet to be replicated to my complete satisfaction.
So technically the Purple Thai was not a true, land-race acclimated P1. However, as far as I was concerned it fit the bill quite well in that it was very consistent in the sativa genes it carried and passed (nearly identical to the Highland Thai). It was also the closest to producing the desirability of the Highland Oaxacaâs finished product.
The Highland Thai, could possibly have been from Burma (now Myanmar), as borders between the two countries are questionable and change. Other drainage systems in the region lead to the Eastern Himalaya, meaning that the âHighland Thaiâ could have originated from a number of places. The entire Himalayan region has perhaps the greatest concentration of geographic âsweet spotsâ in the world, many worthy of exploration. The Highland Thai grew much like the Chocolate Thai; asymmetric, with more stretchâespecially in the bud structures.
The difference in the finished product between the Highland and Purple Thai was that the Highland Thai was more potent while the Purple Thai was more âkindâ (âkindâ being more comfortable to endure, especially while tripping). Another way to put it is that the Highland Thai could be more âracyâ or âscaryâ while the Purple Thai tended to be more ârelaxedâ or âhappyâ. Both had no ceiling or noticeable tolerance effect, and both provided a long lasting experience, as well. Both also shared a very similar sweet/fruity flavored phenotype that was unmistakably Juicy Fruit/Tutti Fruityâthe ultimate female breeder (Note: this was from the plants grown locallyâOregon, indoor and out).
Regarding a clue to the equatorial âHoly Grailâ such as the Highland Oaxaca and Santa Marta Gold (South and Central American varieties) a certain, unmistakable flavor comes to mind: that of incense cedar/frankincense/burgundy/floral with spicy/savory undertones. Coffee, chocolate and fine tobacco were also present, but the sweet incense cedar is what I most recall from the Highland Oaxaca and Colombian Gold varieties. The Thai was more complex with more spicy/savory aspects atop a finely distilled burgundy (probably more from the cure) and sort of a âdyingâ floral, sickly-sweet aroma that was unmistakeably Thai herb (sometimes from Hawaiian as well).
An important aspect to note here is that, according to the best of my knowledge, most high quality sativa of the era was in some way shape or form of Thai origin (or greater Himalayan, but for simplicityâs sake referred to as âThaiâ). This includes the Oaxaca, Colombian, Panamanian, Hawaiian among others of the late 1970âs. Most of it supposedly came from Thai seed stock. Having sampled many of the region-of-origin varieties of the time, I must concur. Many of the Central, South American and the great Island herbs of the time were more than likely of Thai origin. Similarly, todayâs version of âSweet Skunkâ (a misnomer for sure) when grown to fully finished bloom and with a long-time cure shares a distinct Thai quality as well.
Therefore, it seems Thai was the fundamental building block for most quality commercial sativa of the 1970âs. (âCommercialâ is a key word in the previous sentence as I am sure that there were/are many different origins of the regional high quality herbs.) Certain aspects of acclimation must have been responsible for the subtle (and not-so-subtle) differences of the various herbs of the time.
My definition of acclimation is: grown in a specific region or circumstance for enough generations (in-line bred) to impart characteristics unique to the region or circumstanceâpreferably in an herbal âsweet-spotâ such as Highland Oaxaca. This is a very important consideration regarding future resurrection of land race varieties.
Side Note: When I was working with these sativa back in the 1970âs it was all done either outdoors or under large florescent systems, 8â bulbs set onto 4âX8â sheets of plywood and suspended from 2"X4" frames (obviously before the advent of HID lighting). This was also before the introduction of the Indica (Afghan) genes, which appeared commercially at the same time as HID lighting (circa 1978-â79).
The indica, or âAfghanâ varieties became commercially available at the end of the â70âs, and were the polar opposite to the Thaiâs and other sativa. It is interesting to note that Afghanistan is west and north of the Himalaya while Thailand (and Burma) is east and south. Short, stout, wide-leafed, very symmetric and adapted to a short flowering cycle, the indica is what brought the musky âskunkâ odor to the game. I must say that I was not a big fan of the pure indica âskunkâ strain. It is the primary culprit responsible for of much of the couch-lock characteristic found in much of todayâs herb. Indica usually has a low ceiling and a quick tolerance buildup. In short, it is boring, bland and dull herb, unless one seeks anesthetization (or hashish production).
In the indicaâs defense it needs to be noted that it helped birth the indoor cannabis industry. Without the indicaâs fast flowering cycle or its dense bud production or its short stature, the indoor grow scene would be very different today. It was somewhat obvious to recognize indicaâs virtues and liabilities for what they were. It was work and dedication to breed out the bad and to strive for the desirable. The primary virtue of the indica variety is that of its contributions toward hashish production.
An interesting side-note to the indica breeding scheme was the initial direction of the cross. I found much better success with the sativa/indica cross (the female sativa crossed with the indica pollen) than with the opposite indica/sativa cross (the female indica pollinated with the sativa pollen). Again, this was primarily for quality of finished product from the progeny. I found my âHoly Grailsâ via the diversity of the sativa/indica cross.
Other anomalies witnessed from the extreme diversity of cannabis include examples of polyploid expressionâtriple and quadruple types, twinsâincluding various forms of conjoined twins, double leaf and double root phenomenon, along with extreme variation in odor, color and flavor, etc.
So the successes of transgressive segregation are highly dependent upon the selections made in the P1 and f2 generations. These are the most important generations regarding overall selection. The direction of the P1 cross also seemed to play a part in successfully finding high quality herb.
That is all I have time for right now. Feel free to add comments to this thread and I will attempt to answer any questions as time permits. (Please forgive me if I do not respond soon to an inquiry as my life is anything but stable at the momentâhopefully later this yearâbut in the meantime wish me luck on finding a suitable locale for some serious r & d!) Thank you to all who contribute and partake in this sharing of informationâyour input is appreciated. So take care, have fun and please keep the discussion flowing.
peace/out
dj
from
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Ah, the other main trait I like to look for in the SSDD !
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I found this part pretty interesting. My knowledge on genetics is admittedly pretty weak, but Iâve heard this Transgressive segregation could explain the truly spectacular varieties/cultivars as well, Tom Hill touched on it in his most recent Potcast. Itâs an interesting theory, but in DJâs Blueberry case, I would think you would find at least a couple of truly unique and awesome specimens in with all the mutants, but like you said, it would require a big hunt. Tom was saying only something like 5% out of a large hunt may make the cut.
Thatâs cool! Iâve found the texture on rosin changes with a couple of factors, but genetics make the most difference, with temperate after that. Low temp will give you more sugary/shatter type rosin, ime. I pressed this Baba Kush dry sift from the trim bin recently at 155f and it came out like sugar glass, it flakes right off the parchment.
Yeah, I wish testing was more accessible/cheaper. But it wouldnât surprise me if there was lower THC and higher CBD or other cannabinoids in the Blue lines, DJ was breeding for how it made him feel and in the days before testing and everyone growing for the highest THC #'s.
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Looks like @ramblinrose F2s have some pretty nice looking phenos in them. How are the smells on that one? See a bit of similarity to some of mine but those have frostier leaves, are a bit lankier, and better calyx-to-leaf ratio than most of mine that I tested. Iâm liking it⌠Did you take cuttings of this F2?
THE Black Goji cut 
?
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