Lets learn about Phytohormones together, how they work and how we can use them in our gardens

Yes and no.
I think you are speaking of things like Paclobutrazol, Daminozide and Chlormequat chloride.
I do not recommend using any of these products on cannabis.
Some Phytohormones are found naturally in a plant.

I would have to look but most if not all of the products I suggested in the first post are approved for use in cannabis in most states.
Most of these hormones are secret ingredients and can be found in Hydro store bottled ferts.
Canna boost for example.

My humble apologies for the bad spelling, horrible grammar, and poor punctuation.
Please, everyone should feel free to correct anything that jumps out at you.
I know some folks absolutely hate bad grammar.
Most of my posts have been made into a Wiki (anyone can edit it)
If you see errors or have something to addā€¦ā€œPlease do!ā€

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I was in a feisty mood this morning. Must be the Oaxacan Gold.

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Just to piggyback and point out something @shag mentioned that I feel is a really important point.

If you are going to apply a chemical, make sure it is labeled for use in your state/country. Emergency use exemptions could allow some products to be used in only one place. Using something that isnā€™t labeled for use in your location, if it gets detected, generally results in some pretty big economic and sometimes legal issues.

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Iā€™ve just gotta do itā€¦ you know you effected this outcome by choosing to quibble. :stuck_out_tongue:

effect_an_effect

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Haha, since itā€™s okay to punch nazis in the face, is it also okay to punch grammar nazis in the face?
Let me get my mouth guardā€¦:boxing_glove::boxing_glove:

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This post has been made into a Wiki (anyone can edit it)

Examples of prohibited products:

Products containing plant growth regulators that are not allowed for use on food crops are usually prohibited for use with cannabis.
I do not recommend using any of these products on cannabis.

Here are some examples.

1. Ancymidol
2. Chlormequat chloride
3. Clofencet
4. Colchicine
5. Colloidal silver
6. Daminozide
7. Dikegulac-sodium
8. Flumetralin
9. Flurprimidol
10. Paclobutrazol.

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This post has been made into a Wiki (anyone can edit it)

Salicylic acid
SA plays an important role in the cannabinoid biosynthetic pathway. SA is primarily involved in plant defense responses to abiotic and biotic stresses. It is also an efficient elicitor for specialized metabolite biosynthesis. As a plant undergoes abiotic or biotic stress, SA is produced at higher concentrations, in turn activating defense signaling pathways. Cannabinoids are known to be toxic to cells and must be exported to the secretory cavity of glandular trichomes, where they may act as a defense mechanism against herbivory, fungi and bacteria.

SA also increased other cannabinoid biosynthetic genes including TKS, CBDAS,CsGPPS ssu, and CsPT1
The findings provide strong evidence that SA can positively regulate cannabinoid biosynthesis

SA was also demonstrated to increase glandular trichome size and density in several species (Pandey et al. 2021; Zaid et al. 2022).

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This post has been made into a Wiki (anyone can edit it)

Does anyone have a list of all of the PGRā€™s that are tested for?
Please post them here if you have one.
Thank you!

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From what I know Amino acids can be a bit tricky to get into the plant.
If we feed our plants L-tryptophan this should help the plant produce auxin naturallyā€¦correct?

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All Fixt Mr. Bear. I took advantage of Shaggyā€™s wiki offer. Lol.

BTW @Shag, I appreciate the way you are always trying to introduce and explain new ideas for our consideration. This conversation is Waay over my head, but Iā€™m gathering the bits and pieces into some kind of coherent picture.

-Grouchy

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Shagster,

I know a bit about GA3, post a wiki for it and Iā€™ll do a data dump, if personal results are appropriate. YMMV :sunglasses:

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Real world results are always best.
You can add what you have, here would be a good placeā€¦

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@shag working on getting some stuff up! Iā€™ve been going through Cannabis literature looking at whatā€™s out there and hope to make a few posts here soon!

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@GrouchyOldMan
If you are not comfortable editing, feel free to post like normal and I will happily add your content.
This goes for anyoneā€¦

Please remember:
This is a work in progress therefore it may be updated without notice.

It has just been updated.

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That works for me @shag, Iā€™ll look at my my GA3 notes, post here and you can take it from there.

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For the record here I do not recommend using this product on cannabis.
I have not tested this formulation (use at your own risk)

I would stress that this product comes with a strong warning ā€“ it has long withholding periods and the actives are systemic, meaning they, in all probability, remain residual in the plant after it is harvested; one of the actives was banned for use in ANY consumable crop some years ago after a massive controversy in the US (ā€œthe Alar scareā€) and both actives are poisons with possible toxicity issues when used in a short term deciduous crop.

**Safety Precautions: **
Always Wear proper gloves, proper eyewear and a proper mask when mixing.
Always do your own research into whatever product you are using.
Always read the SDS sheet before using any product.
Always be well aware of all of the risks and take the proper precautions.

DIY Superbud
Mixing Instructions

What you will need for the mixing process:

A 1000ml mixing vessel (larger is fine as long as increments are marked for accurate measurement)
Accurate scales (1 gram increments minimum ā€“ ideally 0.1 increments)
Pipette for small fluid increment measurement/1ml increment measuring vessel
A mixing implement/stirrer
A 1L Bottle

Ingredients:

880 micrograms per litre Paclobutrazol
200 Grams Alar WP (850 g/kg)
5 grams Urea
30ml 8% fulvic acid
Demineralised (e.g. Reverse Osmosis) Water

Mixing

  1. Heat at least 1L of demineralised water. All mixing should be done with
    hot water
  2. Add 500ml of hot water into mixing vessel
  3. Add 200 grams Alar WP (850 g/kg). Stir thoroughly until dissolved. Let foam settle before going to step 4.
  4. Add 5 grams of Urea. Stir thoroughly until dissolved. If any foaming occurs let settle before going to step 5
  5. Add 30ml 8% fulvic acid to the SB mix and stir
  6. Add Paclobutrazol at rates pertinent to the brand you have purchased to achieve 880 micrograms/L in the mix. For instance, if the original product is Active Constituent: 250 g/L Paclobutrazol you would add approx 3.52ml to your 1L of SB mix. (We will be going into much more detail about chemical weights (g/L) and formulation straight after this)
  7. Top up to 1L with hot water and stir thoroughly
  8. Let coolā€¦. Pour contents of mixing vessel into 1ltr bottle using a funnel

Ready to use. Always shake before use.

Keep out of reach of children. If poisoning should occur contact the poisons information help line in your localeā€¦. inform them that Daminozide and Paclobutrazol are the cause of the poisoning

Use:

It is important to note that Plant Growth Regulators (PGRs) are exactly this (they regulate plant growth) and that by using them at the right times and at the right rates it is possible to achieve a high degree of control over plant height and formation.

The period that our single part formula should be used for is recommended to be a maximum of 14 days for recirculating systems and 9 days for RTW systems (e.g RTW coco substrate growing).

It is recommended that you add the product at the onset of flowering, or within the first two weeks of switching to the 12/12 light cycle.

If the plant is allowed to flower normally for 2 weeks (without the use of PGRā€™s) the plant will have increased internodal length. When adding PGRā€™s at this stage the buds will be dense and small to medium sized but because of increased internodal gaps there will be a greater area for potential bud sites to join, possibly increasing yield (comparatively to adding PGRā€™s when first switching to the 12/12 light cycle).

After the desired period of use, dump the nutrient tank/reservoir and go back to a standard fertilizer regime. In addition, flush the medium to ensure that any remaining (PGR product) is flushed from the system/medium.

Negatives:

Possible/probable toxicity issues when used in a short term deciduous crop

Decreases essential oil production

Daminozide/Alar: The Daminozide atom converts to hydrazide when heated. Hydrazide is highly carcinogenic.

Paclobutrazol is toxic to the liver and carcinogenicity unknown because not enough research has been done.

For the record here I do not recommend using this product on cannabis even though it has been approved for use on food.

It may have been found to have a possible impact on the immune system (i.e. CCC is immunetoxic)

Hereā€™s the important info, page 16 (3.1 Nature and magnitudes of residue in plants) from Conclusion regarding the peer review of the pesticide risk assessment of the active substance chlormequat | EFSA

Essentially says that 84 days after application, there is still a significant amount of CCC residue present. ~50mg/kg on day 0 and still ~15mg/kg on day 84.
Chlormequat Chloride is a systemic chemical PGR with extremely long withholding periods

Chlormequat Chloride

Chlormequat Chloride used to stop stretch.
CCC is best used as a foliar spray in the first week of bloom or when you want stretch to stop.

Mix this product at 77grams per liter for a concentrated solution.
This concentrate should be used at 3ml/L , based on his dilution rate it should equate to 231ppm delivered to the plant.

EPA Proposes to Register New Uses of Pesticide Chlormequat Chloride | US EPA.

Some good study material if anyone wants it.

Jasmonic Acid Characteristics.pdf (58.3 KB)
Plant Hormone Theory.pdf (72.6 KB)
Salicylic Acid Characteristics.pdf (73.1 KB)
Stigolactone Characteristics.pdf (50.5 KB)
Abscisic Acid Characteristics.pdf (68.5 KB)
Auxin Characteristics.pdf (92.1 KB)
Brassinosteroid Characteristics.pdf (67.1 KB)
Cytokinin Characteristics.pdf (75.5 KB)
Ethylene Characteristics.pdf (82.2 KB)
Gibberellin Characteristics.pdf (93.8 KB)

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Greetings @shag,
As promised, I dug into the archives here and pulled up what I could regarding Gibberellic Acid (GA3).

My personal experience with it is modest and I havenā€™t found a reason to return to using it. I originally purchased a packet of GA3 to try and germinate some very old and rare ā€œLandraceā€ seeds from Vietnam. That was successful, at least to get the seeds to sprout and show the first real leaves, but none of the seedlings showed enough vigor to be worth growing out. Stunted and sickly. I only used the GA3 in the water to soak the seeds, I didnā€™t spray it on the seedlings.

I also attempted to stimulate growth on a healthy plant but all I got was an unhealthy plant.

My take home message was that only the lowest concentration had the desired effect without damaging the plant. Typical recommendations for dilution are in the 250 - 500ppm. I came closest to a positive outcome at 100ppm.

If I were to use GA3 again, it would be as a potential substitute for STS as a sex reversal tool. Iā€™d stick with 50-100 ppm because I donā€™t think that level would hurt the plant as a foliar spray, and Iā€™d keep spraying daily until I saw balls or got bored.

And that is the extent of my personal experience with GA3. For completeness Iā€™ve added below the best article I found on the subject.

Cheers,
-Grouchy :v: :green_heart:

=====================

FARMING WITH AN OLD TECHNOLOGY THAT COPIES NATUREā€™S BASIC FORMULA

by Edward DuQuette

Iā€™ve written and taught on the subject of farming and alterative growing techniques for quite a few years now. Aquaponics has always been my favorite subject to elaborate on. Aquaponics, and its close cousin Hydroponics, both have endured a wave of criticism and praise. But when itā€™s all said and done, both technologies have proven themselves over and over again as successful means of growing larger and more desirable fruit and vegetable products. So whoā€™s the new guy in town, whatā€™s the newest growing technique? Well first of all itā€™s not new; the developed process has been around for over 50 years and the bases of this process been around since the first plant popped its way through the soil. When I first heard of it about two years ago, it sounded too simple to be true.

Making it Easy

As an engineer, I love to unravel technology to understand it. As a teacher, I love to take what Iā€™ve learned and teach it to others, and as a writer, I love to present it in written text to excite experimentation. In Japan around 1935, a hormone was found as a result of a plant condition that caused plants to grow much taller than normal. The condition was called ā€œfoolish seedling ā€œdisease, and after many years of research, this natural occurring plant hormone was identified as Gibberellic acid or GA3. The direct benefits of GA3 are that it helps regulate plant growth, rapid seed germination, and plant resistance to cold and disease in almost all vegetable, fruit and flowers. Where does Gibberellic acid come from? Itā€™s a natural product extracted from the Gibberella fujikuroi fungus that is found on rice plants. There are many forms of gibberellic acid with GA3 proven to be the most effective.

Gibberellic Acid is a white powder; it can be purchased in 2.0-5.0 grams packaging. Larger quantities are also available, but for initial experimentation the 2.0-5.0 gram packaging is the most economical. A little GA3 goes a long way and because of its involved manufacturing process it is not cheap. You will also need a new unused plant sprayer, isopropyl alcohol 70%, distilled water (or filtered water) and a source of music.

Dilute the GA3 powder; the GA3 powder is very hard to dissolve just by stirring in water alone. Proper dissolving can easily done by adding very small amounts of alcohol to the GA3 being used until the powder is dissolved (this very small amount of alcohol will not hurt your plants). The dissolved powder than can be added to the distilled water to produce the proper PPM dilution. (See chart below) Also recommended is the addition of a wetting agent; a few drops of agriculture soap can be used.

It is very important to remember proper PPM dilution rates for success. Too much GA3 or too little can affect your end results. The GA3 needs to be applied in early morning before sunrise if possible. Bright sunlight will effect GA3, making it less effective or destroying its effect completely. Only mix what youā€™re going to use that day. The powder can spoil in high heat and will only last about one week once mixed. Wrap the unused powder container in aluminum foil to protect from direct sunlight. If stored in a cool, dry place, the powder can store for up to 2 years. Do not freeze or refrigerate.

GA3 Powder 90% is soluble in 70% common rubbing alcohol. Before it can be used is must be turned into a liquid. The amount of Gibberellic acid that needs to be used is very small. Drop the correct amount of powder in a small bottle, then add a few drops of rubbing alcohol. The only reason to use alcohol is to dilute the Gibberellic acid powder. Use just enough alcohol to wet the gibberellic acid powder. If after a couple of minutes you can still see some powder, add a few more drops of alcohol. Then just add water to get the right concentration. It is often said that alcohol will damage plants, but not in the very low concentration needed to dissolve Gibberellic acid. 90% GA3 powder will not dissolve in water.

You donā€™t need much of the solution to soak your seeds, just enough for the seeds to fully swell. Most seeds can be soaked in the small poly-bags. Tiny seeds should be folded up in a filter paper for ease of handling when soaking. Larger seeds can be soaked in a pill bottle or small jar.

To know the concentration, replace X and Y, (X mg / Yml) x 1000 = Z ppm

To know the amount of solution to make to get a certain ppm, replace X and Z, (X mg / Z ppm) x 1000 = Y ml

To know the quantity of powder to use, replace Z and Y, (Z ppm x Y ml) / 1000 = X mg

For example: 100mg of GA3 in 200ml of water gives you 200ml at 500 ppm (part per million). 100mg of GA3 in 400ml of water gives you 400ml at 250 ppm. 1g of GA3 at 90% concentration will be supplied as a powder in a small ziplock bag, sufficient quantity to make 2 liters of solution at 500 ppm. You should have enough for a couple of years.

Use strong solution, 500 ppm, on very hard to germinate seeds; and a 250 ppm on seeds that are just hard or slow to start. Seeds enclosed in a hard coat may be submit to a higher concentration, 750-1000 ppm. You can scarify the seeds at first. Soak seeds for at 24 hours and at most three days for the ones enclosed in a hard coat. Keep the seeds at room temperature with occasional careful shaking. The seeds may then be sown. Donā€™t use it on easy to start seeds unless you dilute it greatly, like 25-100 ppm, and soak them only for 2-3 hours. Normal, easy-to-sprout seeds will become very elongated and stretched out, then die if GA3 is used on them. Concentrations of about 2 ppm can cause tubers to sprout earlier.

Gibberellic acid can also influence the timing of flowering, flower gender, flower size, and number of flowers. If a plant is sufficiently developed, premature flowering may be induced by direct application of GA3 to young plants. Formation of male flowers is generally promoted by concentrations of 10 to 200 ppm, female flowers by concentrations of 200 to 300 ppm. You may have an increase in the number of flowers by direct application of GA3 to young plants, at 25 ppm.

When there is difficulty with fruit set because of incomplete pollination, GA3 may be effectively used to increase fruit set. The resulting fruit may be partially or entirely seedless. GA3 applied near the terminal bud of trees may increase the rate of growth by stimulating more or less constant growth during the season. Since GA3 regulates growth, applications of very low concentrations can have a profound effect while too much will have the opposite effect.

Although GA3 is not listed as a poison, the following precautions should be observed. Flush with water any GA3 that may get into the eye. Avoid skin contact if possible and wash away any contact with soap and water. Avoid ingestion of GA3.

And, another random comment on using GA3 to reverse sex:

I breed autoā€™s and feminized plants but donā€™t use colloidal silver. I use gibberilic acid which I find easier to work with. 2 grams per litre, twice a day until they have flowered and you have pollinated your females.
Not unusual to get several thousand seeds from a well grown female.

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Effects of Si on Phytohormones

Silicon impacts on endogenous phytohormones are commonly analyzed in response to stress conditions. In rice plants exposed to heavy metals, Si reduced endogenous concentration of jamonic acid (JA) and salicylic acid (SA), while abscisic acid (ABA) first increased and then decreased after 14 days of treatment (Kim et al., 2014): the ABA has an antagonist behavior with JA/SA biosynthesis. The effect of such phytohormonal changes on the expression of genes involved in heavy metal response still needs to be elucidated in Si-treated plants. Kim et al. (2011) also reported that Si reduced JA concentration in response to wounding, while Lee et al. (2010) reported an increase in gibberellins concentration in Si-treated plants exposed to salinity.

Resistance to biotrophic pathogens may be associated with SA whereas JA and ethylene (ET) are generally associated with resistance to necrotrophic pathogens. Fauteux et al. (2006) showed that Si improved biosynthesis of SA, JA and ET in leaves exposed to Erysiphe cichoracearum. Similarly, Si-treated tomato plants exposed to R. solanacearum activated JA and ET signaling pathways to increase resistance (Ghareeb et al., 2011). Brunings et al. (2009) also provided evidence that genes controlling ET signaling pathway may be activated by Si treatment. Conversely, Si improves resistance to the fungus Cochliobolus miyabeanus by interfering with the production of fungal ET (Van Bockhaven et al., 2015). Data regarding the effect of Si on phytohormone metabolism in the absence of stress are still rare. Markovich et al. (2017), however, recently demonstrated that Si increases cytokinin biosynthesis in Sorghum and Arabidopsis and that such an increase may strongly contribute to delay senescence. Plant hormones interactions are responsible for a complex biochemical and physiological network: a deep understanding of Si influence on hormonal properties thus requires technical approaches allowing to quantify a wide range of hormonal compounds simultaneously, including minor conjugated forms.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpls.2017.00411/full

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