I actually think it’s the other way, they’re not getting enough water and nutrients… They’re getting SOME, but not enough. I started pouring water over them every time I’m in, and I have the drain lifted a bit so it’s holding more water in the grow bed bin. I have almost everything I need to do up the plumbing, and I’ve made an addition, each bed will be a 1/2" line in it with 1/4" irrigation tubing split off into each bag, so the plants will get constant top down watering and I’ll remove the drain lift so the water flows straight out… Lots of O2 and lots of nutes. One reason I’m pretty sure O2 isn’t the current issue, I have some algae at one end where there isn’t a strong current and after being there for a day or so, its covered with oxygen bubbles .
I’ve been looking through my daily gifs of previous grows and these girls are definitely not growing to potential, they should be at least 50% taller than they are right now. I really need to get the water running right, I’m not entitling happy with this light and need to see it really produce.
what makes you think this? in my experience underwatered plants don’t leach nutrition from the lower leaves. they also don’t droop like overwatered plants do. if even a single root touches the bed’s water level they can’t be underwatered btw. the capillary action is absolutely strongest at the furthest root’s tip. nature is fascinating
also curious about your total water volume and your wattage in air pump. this will tell a lot as well. if you make the changes you’re suggesting it should fix the issue imo. the issue (as i see it) is there isn’t enough dissolved oxygen in the grow bed the plants are sitting in. you either don’t have enough flow or enough oxygen.
remember fish breathe a large majority of any dissolved oxygen. cannabis also thrives with excessive amounts of oxygen in the root zone.
your changes should 100% fix the issue though if i understand correctly
I guess it’s just experience with aquaponics . I totally agree with you when in dirt, but in fish water they seem to suck up the nutes they can and live for the production at the top of the plant, including sucking nutes out of lower leaves… It’s a trippy difference.
Oxygen is 100% not the problem. The water in the grow bed is turned over every 4-5 seconds, and it’s flowing through the bags to get there, so there’s tons of air through the roots.
I don’t believe the roots were in water when I planted them… I think I noted that earlier, but maybe I missed it. I was hoping the clay pebbles would quick up enough water because it was only a couple of inches, if that, but in fishing that wasn’t the case… Live and learn, I haven’t depended on any wicking action before, so this part was new. Next time I do this, I’ll include something specific to wick water up, a strip or two of landscape fabric maybe.
I have 4 of the 6 lines going into the garbage can, into 4" circle air stones… Side note, don’t get these, if they’re in any sort of depth get the 6" long ones instead, they weigh more so they’ll stay down, and they can’t flip “upside down” hurting the output a bit.
hmmm well i guess this is one of those things where “to each their own”
a couple of things in your previous response got me thinking.
it doesn’t take much to drown a plant. holding more water means the roots don’t have far to reach. i’ve seen roots grow 5-6" in 12 hours in search of water. i can’t believe after a week in their new home that roots haven’t reached the water level. if none of the 3 specimen have reached the water level yet, then aquaponics truly is 100% different in terms of growing. as someone who’s tried dwc, nft, rdwc, dirt, and organic… i really don’t think this is the case but i have been wrong before
if you have enough dissolved oxygen, regardless of nutrient levels and light permitted into the water, algae cannot form. if you have algae this shows a lack of oxygen. algae works to take co2 from the air and use sunlight to turn it into o2 via photosynthesis.
once posted, i am 100% certain you’re lacking air. to put it into comparison my last grow i had 10 gallon reservoir (plump full) and a similar sized pump. any dissolved oxygen that pump puts out is enough for just your fish. if you added 2 more that same size i can 100% put money that you results will triple maybe more. trust me bro, i’m 100% certain. you need more air.
My biggest root ball from my last grow was about 5" in diameter total. They were a little smaller this time than usual, but I don’t think I’ve pulled a root ball much bigger than 6" round, sometimes they have a long tap root that goes down a foot, but not always.
I’ve well over doubled the air going into this system with the new pump, and I’ve never had problems before with the old pump, so I really don’t think that’s the problem, even in the last grow in this exact same setup
Please don’t get me wrong, I appreciate what you’re saying, and your ideas to help figure out why these girls are taking off just yet, but I don’t know, unless the fabric bags are removing the air (which will be solved for 2 of the girls tonight as they’re now getting top watered), I don’t think air is rhe problem.
I added another 13 fish today, so I’m now officially way overloaded with goldfish… I’ll have enough poppy water to feed 40 plants, lol. I may need to figure out a space for some herb growing
And I shouldn’t really say they aren’t taking off… It’s been what, 11 days now? And 2 of them are about a 1-2 inches taller than the bags, and they were all a few inches below the bag before
i get that but you’re not able to see things from my side. i’ll try to explain in an unbiased way using math. i can also get you links for the pumps i’ve purchased in this example. all figures come from product advertisements. i have 3 air pumps. pump A, pump B, and pump C. specs:
pump A: 32w - 950gph ($39.99) Vivohome brand
pump B: 20w - 475gph ($58.98) Pondforse brand
pump C: 25w - 1350gph ($75.99) Sunwen brand
pump A mirrors yours. pump A is about 2/3 the power of pump B. pump A + pump B still can’t compare to pump C. i can provide you private videos as proof. all air pumps are not created equal. the style you have is cheap and underperforming. i’m sure you’ve noticed it gets so hot you can’t touch it without burning yourself. the main reason i quit using that style of air pump is that it caused problems for me with water temps. it drifted them too high to combat by adding cold water when i topped off. all pumps were purchased chronologically. now i wish i would have started off with the $140 40w model.
i feel like my 25w pump is barely enough for a 20-30gallon system. my plants were fine with a 20w pump but i didn’t have fish which also breathe oxygen. i didn’t have a biofilter which harbors bacteria which use… you guessed it. oxygen!
“Higher DO levels in aquaponics systems make the system more robust, less prone to problems and failure, and better welfare for the fish and plants. So it is important to add as much DO to your system as possible.”
lastly, i want to mention this. during my entire grow with my airlift ph never drifted at all. i wondered why until i re-educated myself on pH (percent of Hydrogen). why does my pH stay stable when i add an abundance of oxygen?
is there any way to know just how much dissolved oxygen goldfish are consuming on average? i don’t think anyone has ever worried about breathing too much air but anyone who’s claustrophobic knows we can definitely have too little.
4-6" of vertical growth in 11 days isn’t anything to write home about. i’m not trying to be mean, as you know i intend and want only the best for you. i don’t want to argue you with you on any topics but i can say with full confidence and faith you need more air. when you find the answer to my question regarding pH maybe it will click on why there can never be too much air.
after reading my post i think i sound like a jackass in my response. that’s totally not my intention. i don’t mean to sound confrontational if it came off as such. my conviction for “more air” is that strong. sometimes i find one of my personal problems is i try to overexplain everything rather than allow people to research for themselves. you can trust me and add more air or you can find out with experience. in the end the result will be the same. i hope everyone the best in their endeavors, especially luxton!!!
a good rule of thumb for dwc cannabis plants is 1L/min for every 4L water volume. with 65-70gal (246-265L) you’re looking at needing ~80L/min for dwc cannabis plants. of course you’re not growing in DWC but you have to consider with your water being linked… DO should be constant across your whole system. your current supply of air is about 1/3 of what you would need if it was a DWC system instead of an aquaponic system. yet again i need to say that fish, nitrifying bacteria, and plants all need oxygen to thrive. this is the end of my efforts explaining my position. everything else people can learn on their own
Entirely 100% cool man… It’s wicked to have discussions like this with someone who is passionate about it too!! I absolutely understand your enthusiasm, I’m with ya bro
Well, it’s confirmed, air is NOT the problem in my system.
The link you posted states that fish need 4-5mg/L, plants need >3 and bacteria needs 4-8… the DO meter is reading 5.7 in my fish tank, and 7.6 in the garbage can with all the media. I’m on the top end or higher already.
You were saying your pump was getting too hot to touch, I guarantee you either had too long of lines, or too small of stones, but you had too much resistance in your air system. I only have 5/6 air stones in the garbage can right now.
Ok, that little $170 experiment is over, lol… I wonder if I can return the meter, haha.
So, I still have these crazy stunted plants that are growing a TON, just not in height. I was wrong about my light too, it’s rated at 2000 watt, not 1000. I know you say “it’s not really that”, etc., but with nothing else to go on, I have to trust the manufacturer is advertising truthfully, I believe there are laws against that anyway. So, do I turn my light upside down so it’s shining against the top of the tent and let the plants grow with the ambient light? I’m kinda stuck, I can’t afford a different light for a while now…
that’s excellent! 5.7 is an excellent point to be at for fish. from what i’ve read and observed, it seems like the maximum ideal ‘practical’ scenario is about 8-12. i’ve seen systems that dissolve o2 in water more efficiently but then you’re working with oxygen canisters and… suddenly it’s not practical anymore. anyways at 7.6 in your biofilter you’re definitely having the maximum effect of nitrifying bacteria so it really goes to show you know your stuff when it comes to systems design.
nah man it’s that pump. it gets hot even with 0 resistance. it’s just the difference between a single diaphragm pump vs a linear piston pump. linear pumps work sooo much better. they also cost quite a bit more compared to diaphragm pumps.
tell them it was defective if they give you some slack… then tell them you want reimbursed for the batteries they didn’t include. lay it on thick; i’m sure they’ll promptly give you a refund ^^
do you have any sales advertisements for your light? if it’s 2000w light i would guess it’s a 600w draw from the wall. it was probably advertised to ‘beat’ a 1000w hps light. there’s no commercial leds made right now drawing 2000w from the wall. 2000w @ 12 hours daily is about $100 USD for the power bill with national average US prices. your power bill will tell the tale.
regardless if the light doesn’t contain a dimmer that’s going to be rough. you could maybe try a couple of regular CFL light bulbs for the time being? once they get bigger they can tolerate more light but when they’re little too strong of light isn’t beneficial.
to me i think you might either have some pH issues or some kind of nutrient thing going on. there’s a couple of things which are kind of strange. if you have too strong of light and proper nutrition the lower leaves don’t want to wither. there aren’t any leaves on all 3 which look ‘normal’ to me. you may actually have some nitro toxicity going on; i’m not sure i’ve never really dealt with that.
i wish i had more suggestions for things to fix but i’m kinda at a loss here since aquaponics is not my element, yet.
i don’t remember exactly what they mean but in the extreme haze you can clearly see the serrations pointing upwards while the majority of the leaf seems to be clawing down. i know this is a telltale sign of ‘something’ i just forgot what at the moment the ‘new growth’ almost appears yellow to me.
on the oatz #1 plant i see it strongly as well. #2 however seems to be able to take in more nitrogen.
when i think about it i think you put plants that weren’t quite ready for that much nutrition. since you’ve got o2 and water on point with your wicking thing and now they’re big enough to drink on their own… maybe it’s just a thing where you need less intense light to get them to ‘grow’ more.
turning your light upside down would work but sounds horrible impractical. i know controllers are expensive but some have dimmer options for lights that don’t dim from the factory.
if you’re noticing good growth daily that’s the big indicator things are at least ‘ok’. if they are starting to smell good and get better they’ll grow into it if ya give them more time.
edit - by chance can you test tds and ec? i actually don’t think pH is the issue since your fish are fine… such an interesting system to diagnose
That’s so strange about your pump… mine runs constantly and the temp gun I have says it’s currently exactly 40C (104F) on the hot end (the cool end is 34.6C (94.28F)). Odd.
lol, they used to give you a month of prime for free if you complained, but now they refuse a refund unless there’s a really good reason… cheap bastards… and they threw ads into prime video… ugh.
She’s a big light, but it’s rated for a 4x3, so I figured it’d be perfect for mine, giving me a foot of standing room to work.
I am seeing daily growth, just not as much as I expect right now… they should be shooting to the moon! You could be write on the nitro toxicity… 2 ways to fix that really, swap out water, or add more plants (2 more just popped and 3 more are coming ).
I used to have a TDS and EC meters, but I’m not sure where they have gone at this point… and back to Amazon we go, lol. Those values are different for an aquaponics grow from a regular hydro grow though, since there’s actual fish waste in the water… hrmm…
ah well 104 seems hot to me. i think maybe mine got up to 120 or so. my pumps now run around 84F which is just slightly warm to the touch.
it’s 275w you can see in the product title. it says ‘actual power 275 watts’
what’s the distance to plant canopy? i think with those chips and placement you want to have like 28-32" before your canopy.
more plants is always the solution
tds and ec work with fish poo as well. the difference is 500 tds is extremely high for aquaponics and 1500 is extremely high for hydro. the cool thing is that the ec on the organic will always be better than hydro. natural with organics > salt-based nutrition
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. I totally agree with you when in dirt, but in fish water they seem to suck up the nutes they can and live for the production at the top of the plant, including sucking nutes out of lower leaves… It’s a trippy difference.
i hope everyone the best in their endeavors, especially luxton!!!
:fire:
the ‘new growth’ almost appears yellow to me.
(2 more just popped and 3 more are coming 
you can see in the product title. it says ‘actual power 275 watts’