To flush or not to flush?

Indoor Growing Hydroponics
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I don’t really find a way to analyze this Manichean and trendy subject in fact. It’s so binary and invite to only be a part of one of twos opposites camps.

With some lines, i need to juggle with controlled deficiencies in plain middle of the flowering stage to keep them “clean” for the smoke and to don’t sacrify to much yield in same time. They litterally need to starve to accept a shot of a good PK, before the coming back of the N. I generally call them “bitchy” with love, because they give a counterpart in exchange of this constraint. And no, i can’t add supplements simply because i will fool my marks and comparisons.

With others lines, they simply eat everything i throw in the soup no matter what. And they starve within 48hours, to the yellow.

And between these twos extrems, many variation of thema lol Even if i love to SOG, i don’t like to grow the same cut over and over. This is the point of my angle : to adapt practices and “personal habits” to a specific case than change often. Feeding and finishing a tree than have 2 months of veg on 10 gal pot the same way than a little clone just rooted wich have only 2 months to live … have no sense too imho.

I known by advance than no one want to smoke a zamal pushed in hydro than is not flushed. And than only very picky experts will be able to spot the absence of flush on an 90’s chronic well maded. So wtf in a way.

Now the nuancies i want to share.

Most of the time, the flush is considered as an over-watering with plain water. And for somes, the drain is tested with an EC meter during this stage (which is absolutely not bad at all, i insist). Some others play with the PH in near all the range to get a bonus etc …

And i never do that lol Not because i find the “flush” bad, but first because i don’t want to overwater my plants before the harvest. And mainly because i use only horticultural CFLs. Under HPS or CMH, i will think different on it.

The second reason is than i use different product to prepare the plants to be harvested. So, if i really lower or cut (depend on the case) the main nutrients,i don’t really stop to feed them also. Somes will need a hint of fluvic with K+, others just root boosters … it’s never really plain water but the doses in question are ridiculous considering the maximum they eat in theyr life.

If i have to sell this approach to someone to be in “my side”, i will not say than his habit to flush is bad or useless or scientifically wrong etc. Because i consider it as the best starting point to refine the manner to finish an army of tiny plants.

And in a way a form of security for the guys than simply don’t known what they do or/and than can’t read their plants. Just watch the massive amount of overfert plants than you can see now, even in (famous) breeder’s catalog ! When i see news growers looking after plastic weed than shine like you just sprayed a foliar wax for ficus on it, then saying “yummy” … i just cry all the tears of my body lmao

I loop on the fact than the diversity of cannabis can’t be synthetized to the feeding charts of nutrients companies. And i dare to say in bonus than to reach a next step in quality, you have to burn them more than anything else one time you known the 100% dosage.

So lets talk more about contextual recipes to finish a strain, over to sort people in twos sects no ?

I would do the pepsi challenge with any flushed weed that was clones of my plant grown in hydro (apples to apples of course)

Like you, i will only compete on quality with a cut from a line than i known like my own childrens. If you remove everything after “that”, i’m op for any friendly competition. I’ve a line in the stash than react very well when finished with plain water ^^

best vibes anyway, can’t sleep tonight and it was fun to write.

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Great train @Fuel. I have jumped on the track a lacka! Your inquiries into this subject are insightful and thought provoking. I agree you must reach a slight burn with ferts to know the limits of the product. After establishing those limits I revert to the “less is more” mindset. :cowboy_hat_face:

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My plants generally want less towards the end of flowering. I’m at 0.8EC and it rose up to 0.85EC over the course of a few days. I’m week 7. So I diluted to 0.7EC and see if it still raises.

I don’t flush and believe taste to be strain dependent mostly. Sure if you blasted with nutrients I can see that resulting in a bad taste. But if you listen to your plants you will know you’re overfeeding.

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I do the same @SquirtleSquad, listen the plants at my best ability.

Normally in the end of the cycle they eat less, so I naturally give less food to them.

No force flushes, no stress.

@ReikoX:
I loved the quote “I think flushing is for toilets“.
(You are a inspiration, I love your plants ans they look like love you back :heart:)

I too really fail to see WHY flush, but well, if you “feel” that is good for you and your plants I will not be here trying to convince you. I like this thread, nice articles. Read them.

A slow drying and a nice cure and then you get tasy buds. :+1:

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Just wanted to drop this academic article here for reference…

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From that article: Flushing was found to be ineffective in removing any significant amount of nutrient from the bud.

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I always thought that anyway without reading the article. Just make sure you trim as much of the leaf matter from your buds as you can as the leaves hold the most chlorophyll :+1:

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I think some people confuse flushing the root ball to correct overfeeding or a ph imbalance with somehow flushing nutrients from the buds. A badly overfed plant is not fixed by flushing imo

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That’s the myth that needs to be busted. A lot of growers have a misconception of what flushing/ripening actually is and think that straight water is the answer.

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I agree. I think that “flushing” your growing medium - coco, hydroton, perlite, soil, or what ever - to lower the build up of nutes/salts, etc, is just fine, and a good thing to do periodically. Also, periodically ‘flushing’ out a DWC bucket or ebb/flow system is also good.

Trying to ‘flush’ buds or plants is a wasted effort, and I think it does more harm than good.

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Yeah I don’t understand the mentality of starving your plant in the most crucial time of its development. The last 2 weeks is when they really put on the ritz and bring home the bacon. Letting them cannibalize themselves has always made the smoke harsher in my experience. To each his own I guess.

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radiation.png1134×1333 76 KB

If you look, the potassium in a human puts out over 1/3 (390ms) of the allowed radiation dose for a human (1000ms). Basically, if you are around four people you will exceed your yearly radiation dose (assuming you absorbed all their emitted radiation). Everyone is exposed to four times this amount because of background radiation anyway though.

Literally everything puts out more radiation than most people ever imagine. Most people imagine that they live in a radiation-free environment.

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I’ve read that. I believe that study was not peer reviewed. GML grows in coco coir and he flushes like two weeks before harvest to lower nutrients/salts in the media. Then the plant consumes itself since it has no more nutrition. What does that have to do with UV?

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they said that flushing the coco actually releases the buffered nutrients so the plant is still getting fed in an intervju with Shane from migro.
Im just saying that the science and what people are doing are at odds in many different areas

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Yeah it’ll still feed off what’s in the media but its not much that’s why it consumes itself.

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People have the scientific process backwards in regards to there flushing studies.
When something is observed you are supposed to use the scientific process to explain those observations.
It has been well established within the growing community that flushed vs non flushed smokes better and leaves cleaner ash etc.
There are many variables that come into play in regards to when to start how much and for how long but when done correctly the results are superior compared to not flushing.
This is a known and commonly agreed upon observation.
Now what we have with these studies are people who say it is not relevant because they can not explain or show why it is and they there for insist it isn’t.
The problem is there have not been enough studies done in a controlled manner and they are failing to identify and explain why there is a difference. They are using there failure to explain a observation as evidence the observation is wrong.
I’m sorry but observations are much more valuable then theoretical science based on what is currently known. Science changes it’s story every time they find something out they dident know that contradicts there current claims.
I wish people would grow and expierament more on there own vs reading and regurgitating information as fact when it is often sourced from places practicing improper methods of study, when I say this it is not directed at anybody here but more at the industry in general. Flushing is a complex topic and it takes experience to do it correctly , not all plants react the same and it takes time to make accurate observations.
I could teach somebody how to make Carmel with written directions and they could repeat the steps perfectly but chances are you will burn it if you are not shown on the stove what to do. This is why some classes in college demand field training and don’t rely on only written lessons.

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Imho flushed vs non flushed flower tastes the same to me lol
I’m more in the camp of doing the cure right makes the smoke better. I read that ash color is more of sugar content. Sorry for derailing further lol

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No worries , this is why I mentioned there are many many variables to take into consideration, nutrient and media type, strain and time of harvest to name a few. The key to a proper study would be identifiable conditions that result in the observed results.
Find a a strain and growing enviroment in which flushing makes a noticeable difference
(to the consumer not a machine) and then work on confirming what is causing the difference and we would be a step closer to understanding why and when it may benefit a grower.
And I kinda derailed this from the uv topic honestly but the flushing thing hits a nerve and a lot of the same issues come into play when discussing uv application.
One grower observes a difference and the other does not and they go to the grave screaming they are right and the other is wrong because the science that explains why and why not and when has yet to be understood. When in reality it is most likely a case of different results based on vastly different inputs.

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Love the information I stay away from my thoughts seen these decisions go toxic often my theory what ever works for ya keep to it. But i will say what I do is leech starting of week 6 I water but just enough for the day and continue till finish and that seems to float my boat and ive always had a hard time getting dense buds and i do know its strain dependent but Ive had fluffy stuff that just goes rock hard for this method cheers

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Interesting topic and full of information. I am a proponent of flushing. The first time I grew a plant I didn’t flush cause I thought it should be green. The buds tasted like crap and burned to dark ash. It was the last time I did…the rest of my grows from that point on were flushed 2 weeks, however I think humidity plays a large role in wether an individual’s conditions require it. In my case drying is fast within about 4-5 days I’m brittle, so to retain moisture content I pull earlier than going until the stem snaps, because it’s fairly dry opening and closing containers continues the drying process.

In my experience of buying delivery buds, some growers SHOULD be flushing and it’s too easy for me to tell. The smoke isn’t clean and doesn’t burn all the way. In fact most roaches (I roll lots) are nasty and I pull it out of holder. Since getting to sample first upcoming harvest in 20 years, CLEAN all the way to the end. I’m not growing leaf, I’m growing the buds and drawing out what’s stored does work since I have faster drying conditions as a jump starting in curing.

Again the delivery shit is so fresh I’ve had to cure it myself, and I truly hate the bite of uncured bud, so IMO some growers should have and others not so much. It’s very interesting flushing correlates to humidity. Perhaps this should be revised to fit individual conditions. Faster dry and lower humidity, yes it is recommended. Higher humidity and slower drying conditions isn’t as necessary since the chlorophyll can dissipate. If it doesn’t, it’s there for good and enough masks the terpenes in the smoke.

So I don’t think drying conditions should be referred as myth when it concerns flushing. I’ve always wondered why I have fast drying conditions, now at 3 different locations. I’ve never been able to slow dry ever, and it’s always a week or less, but I couldn’t connect flushing to curing. I think going forward here, this thread will be able tell which grower must flush before drying and which doesn’t need to. Just my thoughts on the old age debate.