All bees are bugs but not all bugs are bees.
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that why it is called bugsbee?
sorry couldnĀ“t resist 
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Thanks, I think that was the answer I was looking for. Will be checking myself next run and go with a auto pot or something similar with a organic living soil and see if my experience is bad because of the way I grew
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These plants look stressed to me.
I would dial things in such as environment, feed, root zone PH, water schedule, etc, before pushing light. Light will push everything.
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Thanks, Iām definitely not doing myself any favors with my laziness in my garden
I would strongly advice not to go down that route, because soil lacks capillarity for autopots.
Just set up a simple eb and flow table and stay away from organic growing, certainly as a novice. It is not at all what itās cranked up to be, a lot of myths about the taste being superior (which it isnāt) and second guessing when something can and will go wrong during the grow.
This is hydro non organic growing in an eb and flow setting.
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I disagree with this. Organics are very easy if you use a large enough container and ācookā the soil for 2-4 weeks before using it. Itās very very easy if you do those things imo.
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Laziness is fine, check my topic! 
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Iām spying LED grow logs in following strict patterns of considerations on the batches iām reading/watching, itās a sub-activity since iām in OG now ^^ The differences in āpanels buildsā(diodeās type), for the same relative intensity, make some chaos in the considerations with their owns sub-considerations.
https://www.apogeeinstruments.com/photometric-sensor/
But I firmly think now, overall, that this kind of toy is an absolute necessity with LEDs.
Whatever is used and over a density of panels that are over 100W@~2.8-3.0+ Āµmol, per half sqm (~5.4sqft).
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FWIW, if investing in a light meter or the sensor, the following would be a better option as opposed to the photometric/pyrometers sensors:
Apogee has many different types of light sensors and they arenāt the cheap option, but they are good scientific grade sensors if youāre looking for that type of precision. Be certain to research the variants before making a purchase. For plants, generally PAR or ePAR (extended PAR range) sensors which are filtered to measure plant usable light energy. Pyrometers measure a broad spectrum and include IR. Photometric sensors are filtered and tuned more for the human eye (e.g. lux, lumens).
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Just use the app PHOTONE to get a rough part reading.
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Hamme told ya the truth.
To soon 12 12
The net needs to be filled
The issue with N is there
I get they are finishing but when that happens
They look like autumn, not yellow only
You see the plant using up P k etc
Expressed in the leaf color
Some are but yeah donāt give up.
Light height ok, I have mine closer
But it needs to be dialed in like Mentioned
Above.
Ph of water correct etc.
I grow in dirt as itās very forgiving and Iām lazy
Lol.
Gl
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Yeah I agree. When growing with LEDās, you need to feed a little heavier and supplement with cal/mag.
Thatās my problem exactly with the chaos generated by the diversity of panels. For now, the strain-related factor in the equation make the mess too much (from my pov off course) to generate a true lead on diodeās strategies.
Sometimes I can see the same cut perform better under what i will consider a given PAR emitted by a specific strategy on diodes, while itās destructed on the fly by seeds in the reverse sense. Iām not joking one second when i say that some breeders should specialize (truly) their kung fu on LED breeding.
Now iām very open to listen any lead that help me to get out from this damned personal dead end ^^, i mean to can streamline the thinking over the test of the panel itself.
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If you like I can send you some phone home x neroli 91 open pollination seeds. Iāve tested them to 3 weeks of age in veg under 24/7 650 PPFD and they were fine. They wouldāve been flowered but I was mainly doing a vitality test.
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They are okay but the color is strange and the leafs show awkward growth. When in veg less light is preferable, i wasted too many genetics to learn that and see this happening again.
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Iād agree, with the variety of options particularly when LEDs were first introduced, noticeable differences in growth and quality remain something of an open and on-going question and debate. What youāre looking at is deeper than casual experimentation and entering the domain of tuning for performance. Light level is the perhaps the first step with subsequent tuning being incremental improvements. If you desire to see the spectral differences, youāre left with either relying on the manufacturer data or youāre utilizing a spectrometer (complicated + expensive). A quantum/PAR meter, or a photometric meter, only tells a portion of the light energy story. And, while it is getting better, OEMs have been known to be dishonest when providing accurate data confusing the situation.
As far as using quantum sensors for such questions, between the different technologies such as sodium / HID / LED / etc, you could very well obtain the same PAR readings (or lux and whatnot) from these sensors while the actual spectra may be entirely different. With large IR peaks from lamps, you could potentially end up with an increased heating of the leaves along with the environmentā¦ which in turn affects the system VPD ā¦ and the plant metabolismā¦ maybe under such circumstances the plant goes into photo-protection ā¦ leading to differences in uptake and respiration. But, Iād imagine, few really go to the extent of measuring leaf temperatures and determining respiration state / photosynthetic efficiency. So, in the case of comparisons, this is where a pyrometer + PAR meters could be useful. Or, as an all-in-one, a spectrometer.
Quantifying differences may be a bit outside of whatās being debated in this thread but remains an on-going and interesting area of study.
Advantage to using LEDs are comparatively too great to ignore. Figuring out how to improve their use in practice, optimizing for performance, is where things seem to be.
Personally, for the last xxxx years, we are using all LED (supplemental) and with good results. At the same time, we also desire/know we could do much better. Energy and time. Itāll come together eventually and I think with the community here, observation and experimentation will lead the way to improved understanding on LEDs in practice versus some of the historical methods.
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The leafs do get a bit awkward as theyāre trying to size up to the strength of the light. Itās mainly done for the strong branching for me. I notice if I go too light in power like 400 ppfd in a mainline the branches are about 1/2-3/4 the size on an 8 cola mainline.
My watering/feeding schedule is not perfect on either as I was busy with college.
edit:
This is what I get at a normal PPFD/DLI
My watering/feeding schedule is not perfect on either as I was busy with college.
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Agree with @Foreigner, too much light is not your issue. If they were eating like they should be, they can easily take what you are giving. So itās environmental related somehow likely - temp, strength of feed, humidity, drybacks in your media, etc.
Good luck, not sure what to offer, but Iām certain light intensity isnāt your issue.
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For this Iām glad to share that iāve found indirectly a while ago (when hermetic coĀ² enriched spaces + 1Kw HPS + AC where popular) a simple trick that can be considered as a funnel of such activity : just coĀ² sensors used without any coĀ² enrichment.
The night/day cycles average you can get from this and their deltas are quite reliable to measure the whole effisciency (plantās side). And it become even more impressive with a single cut spreaded in the whole space.
I think iām almost feeling the bias you will consider from this strategy, but the advantage of such concatenation is the purity of a single factor, to integrate into a set. Over the empirical luck i got on this one, itās not a lead i will share with you without being sure of its reliability.
And fucking true, OEM are too much playfull. Itās why (also) i give more leverage to homemade panels in my spy game in general ^^
My consideration on the coĀ² production of plants follow the same wide digression i guess ^^, but i personally think that at one point of the considerations with LEDs, itās better to enlarge horizons on the real equation. With the hope that one specialized fool will be helped by this to make the line between the dots and give us a more strict answer lol
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