2023 "Field of Dreams"

I wonder if I shouldn’t post yet, because I feel like I’m on the brink of having more things “click” in my head.

The Dolomite/Wood Ash thing would make more sense to me if I was trying to increase my pH. There’s advantages to the lime but the simple answer is I just don’t understand yet. Here’s what I think I’m trying to, at a fundamental level:

a) Avoid making further rush judgements if possible
b) Remove excess cations above my CEC which are making my soil basic (probably use a combination of sulphur and flushing to do this - my pH level alone shows this, and more sulphur isn’t going to hurt me)
c) Increase CEC (add places to hold nutrients essentially - humus/humics and the Montmorillonite)
d) Add appropriate N/P (maybe K but probably that’s already fine) to reach balance with the rest

Frustratingly, because I just so boldly set out on this journey, I made some questionable decisions from the start. Hindsight, I would have asked for a compost test report to assess it’s maturity. I would have reduced the amount of relatively young compost and used more humus. I probably would have flooded/flushed my old soil before adding to the mix. I would have used a different soil test facility offering CEC or TCEC result - I’m making a guess based on the composition testing I did myself. That guess is between 4-8, but that’s just for now, as I read and correlate facts/numbers to my situation. I’ll be flying blind in that regard, probably, but at least I can establish some guard rails to keep things from flying off a cliff.

Essentially, I had a eureka moment where I realized I was about to make some mistakes based on false confidence and have been gathering information to fill in the blanks. Thankfully, most of the advice that has been provided here has been wonderful, even when it flies right over my head, and there are several examples of that in my posts over the last few days. And it is greatly appreciated.

I have a beautiful opportunity to get guidance and build the best soil I can. I’m not in a hurry, my seedlings are doing just fine after I just stopped fucking with them. Best of all, I’m learning a lot, with a little pain along the way. Hopefully my sharing my thoughts, even when they are incorrect or potentially embarassing, helps other people too.

Looking forward to bringing my better questions, and better capacity to interpret the answers, later this week. Thanks guys! :heart:

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You got this brother. You are doing great. Props. :sunglasses: :metal: :peace_symbol: If it wasn’t for curve balls I would never learn anything. :slightly_smiling_face:

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Happy Spring and a New Season! Very happy to see that you have everything cooking up around here, so to speak. Im doing my absolute best to fully read up on your journey so far this year and am already so greatly appreciative of this Amazing amount of info posted as I also continue on this path and learn more every time I let myself.
I have alot of catching up to do on where things stand here but I hope all is well with you and the garden, and that we’re both working the usual kinks out as Spring wakes us all back up and at em.
A few simple ‘season starter’ containers of autos has really helped to get my spirits flyin high again. Of course, we also hope to get some nice photo-periods going in a month or so, and yes! as you kindly reassured me, the watermelons are finally popping up and beginning to be transplanted. So very thankful we have the time, opportunity, and patience for all of this.

Blessings this season my Brother! :pray:

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Well, time for a little update around here. Spent the week reading and pondering my cation excesses. I completed the worksheet in “the intelligent gardener” book, which can also be found and printed online:

I decided to try flushing the low-hanging fruits (Na, K) with a dash of S to encourage it. I applied about 15g to my tarped bed the other night (20ppm IF it all dissolved, unlikely). I saturated and drained what I could, spread it all out to dry so it didn’t stay anerobic for long. Basically a good water to runoff. That’ll have to do, and we’ll see if there are lingering issues. The literature warns against doing this excessively until I have more tests under my belt, so I’ll conservatively try what I feel is the right move without totally turning my yard into a swamp.

Drain corner was the bottom left. I repeated the process to a lesser extent with my beds, which will just leach down into the sandy soil.

I did this one yesterday night and raked it to aerate as it dried, turning in the weeds that had grown under the clear plastic I had it covered with to “cook.”


Throuroughly watered the other bed tonight, and will repeat the mixing/turning over the vegetation tomorrow.

In case it wasn’t made clear earlier, I strongly suspect my salt/pH issues are the same among all the plots because the soils are mostly the same between the tarp soil and the two beds - they’re all the new compost/pumice and last years potting soil/native soil. pH testing indicates similar results as well. I think my particularly salty element was either the sand I brought from the river or the compost I bought locally.

Here’s an interesting case study, one of my blueberries in the new soil:

Looks like a P deficiency to me, likely caused by the high pH. Shocker, I know. I LOL’d when I was reading about P deficiency in blueberries being “rare,” because it sure ain’t rare in my garden this year :rofl: :joy: This one looks OK though:

Sprinkled a dose of S and Terp Tea Bloom that I had leftover from last year. Hopefully that can give it a little motivation to keep going while the pH comes down over the season. I’m not going to let them fruit until next year, so they can take it easy this season. Cover crop blend is starting to pop up now :grinning:

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So what’s the next move?

I’ve internally debated quite a bit here. I considered:

  1. Flush the ABSOLUTE SHIT out of all the dirt and start from scratch with mineralization and nutrition
  2. Try to ammend the dirt I have but grow my weed in bagsoil this season so I don’t ruin it
  3. Switch to coco and hydro where my mistakes would be short-lived, maybe I wasn’t meant for this organic thing afterall
  4. Make minimal alterations and see what happens
  5. Do exactly what the book says to do
  6. Follow various pieces of advice given here, probably boiling down to adding castings/clay and hoping microbes do all my dirty work
  7. A combination of 1+5+6

I think I’ve decided on 7. Lightly flush the soil. Ammend to the target levels and using the target increments given in the book, down to micronutrients, erring slightly on the low side. Incorporate all the advice I’ve been given here.

The gypsum advice was the most unexpectedly accurate info I’ve seen. It mentally didn’t compute initially, but because of the sulfur in it it basically replaces Na/K with Ca. I’ve been struggling with deciding whether to balance Ca:Mg ratios or let that vary, as many sources suggest. I know my K is going to come down as the compost turns into beatiful soil over time, so I’m inclined to “let it ride” on that variable rather than jacking my Ca:Mg too crazy. I haven’t done anything other than overwater with minute S concentration yet, so please let me know if this is the wrong approach.

Here’s where I’m landing with ammendments:

Mono Ammonium Phosphate (MAP) has great appeal here despite not being “organic.” It has no calcium, so I can use gypsum to raise my Ca level exactly where I want it. I’ve calculated my CEC raising to about 4.9-5.1 after adding the castings and clay so I’ve got more room for stuff to get ratios correct and drop my pH. I also picked up a bag of Happy Frog Cavern Culture which is the lowest Ca high P fertilizer I could find locally to get my P up to target levels given by the worksheet. Bone meal is another option I guess. I can do either method. I have no problem with using an “inorganic” fertilizer to build a soil that will no longer require as much care. It seems like a one-time deal in this application, and does exactly what I seem to need.

You may note I’m using micronutrient sulfates to get my micros up to suggestions given in the book and by my soil worksheet. The rest of the book sold me on this. I like his approach and his justifications for having the healthiest possible plants. I’ve obtained all of these items despite the tiny quantities I require and if anyone wants any, I can send small bags. It’s ridiculous I had to get about 15 pounds of this shit, but hey, I’m a ridiculous man that does ridiculous things. Free micro nutrient minerals for everyone!

Any thoughts on that approach? Should I do MAP and gypsum? Or Cavern Culture? Or bone meal?

My seedlings are still alive but it’s nighttime for them so I’ll post some pics of those in the morning. I’ve got 5 viable candidates for 907 and IBG I’ll send out for sex testing. I’ve got a mutant 907 too, it’s definately a weird bird. The two fem Panalawi’s are doing well.

@Dendro This post is about all you need to read to be fully caught-up. My brain has been getting scrambled trying to learn this stuff - it’s all foreign to me, getting more comfortable with it as I go. Most of the thread is me rambling about my thoughts, at several points incorrectly. I’m learning in public, which is fun and rapidly humbling. Hopefully I’m not annoying anyone too bad. Glad to hear your garden is kicking off! I’ll drop my autos as soon as I get this soil ready to rock-n-roll, probably mid-May. I’ll run those Mephisto’s Wedding x 4 Assed Monkey you sent. At this point, I may not attempt my breeding project with the Auto Bubblegums this season. If that learning curve is ANYTHING like the soil one, I’ll probably lose my mind before I make the first seed. Getting some Shiskaberry pollen though, so definately gonna try some regular photo seeds, should be a :fire: cross to the 907 and IBG both.

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IBG x Shiskaberry damn I wonder what that will smell and taste like. :yum:

Maybe just grow some in bag soil + coco and some in living soil too. While your learning living soil.

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I’d just throw down a mix of covercrop and some random cannabis seeds that you got for free or whatever just to check, let the covercrop grow until they start to bloom, then chop and drop.

Doesn’t matter if there’s deficiencies, it will keep improving anyway the more diversity of species you sow. It all sorts itself out.

To me it seems like you’re micromanaging minerals but ignoring the microbes and fungi which are really what make the soil fertile. Get some mycorrhizal mycelium and spores in that dirt and you won’t have to worry about a thing.

Soil is a galaxy of life that is programmed to adapt and thrive.
Think like a forest, no one was in the amazon rainforest when it started taking off checking PH and minerals, and yet… there it is, enormous and flourishing, fully automatically grown.

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Amend it with some of this. Based on the directions and water it in with a microbe supplement. I do both.

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Sow the seeds and the soil will follow.

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So microbes certainly aren’t forgotten, they have always been the plan. I was just waiting to fully inoculate until I get it amended and ready to go in pots. I don’t have the brain cells left to simultaneously deeply ponder 2 things at once. I suspect that’s going to be next weeks mental journey. Back to the teaming with microbes book!

I figured that getting a decent home ready for the microbes was step 1. The microbes, well, I think that’s step 2. For me anyway. I know nature does it’s own thing.

I innoculated with Rootwise when I mixed up the soil and fed it in early April. I’ll do it again after I finish mixing amendments. I’ll definitely look into those Cole, my local shop didn’t have more rootwise so I’ll be needing something else.

Was also planning on compost teas throughout the season, that seemed to work well last season and was easy. Late summer/fall is the busiest time of year for my work, so that was important to me.

Thanks guys!

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I do them both at the time of transplant. That’s not completely true I top fed a little Mykos to my small pots a few days ago and I use 1/2 tsp per gallon of the microbe in my feed solution. Time of transplant though I use a nice amount of Mykos on my roots and in the transplant hole and water in with 2tsp per gallon of Microbe. Then I feed 1/2 tsp per gallon of Microbe every feeding.

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Here’s the seedlings freshly watered. They’ve unfortunately been suffering under my care, or lack thereof recently. As pointed out, I needed to stop changing things, so I did last week. I left the setup with the heater mat running, fans lightly moving their leaves and stems. The daytime temps are mid-80s and nightime temps 65 or so. This isn’t unlike what they’ll see outside, so not the best for a seedling but representative roughly of life outside.

Pumpkin/Panalawai Top Row
907 Blue Genes Middle Row
Indiana Bubblegum Lower Row

Looks like some N def going on, with the lower leaves of almost all of them. Should I add a little worm castings to the tops? They’re nominally going to be in these pots until they go outside in a couple weeks. I have some bigger ones but that’d require substantial modification to my ghetto rig.

Here’s my mutant 907 Blue Genes

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Good Morning @FieldEffect and Hello Gang.
Thanks for carrying-out this Public Learning session, I really appreciate the Crumbs of info that are flying off this Discussion

Wonderful stuff!

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two weeks is a long time, considering.

got any Alaska or Neptune?

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They look fine just a shot a N. :100:

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I can confirm rabbit shit is pelletized gold for soil.Especially if the rabbits eat alfalfa.The Guerurilla grows I did when I was a kid were amended with rabbit shit that was from alfalfa and grass fed rabbits.I had access to a friends rabbit farm and helped clean his moms pens all the time.All that good feed broken down in that rabbits gut and processed for Further chelation.Excellent fertilizer source

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I’ll pick up some Alaska today, it’d be good to have around anyway.

There’s plenty of farms around here I could probably manage to get some good stuff to compost. I need to talk to my neighbors about who’s doing what.

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I need to get a QT of Alaska fish ferts myself. I supplement with it too.

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Well, got me a fat jug of Alaska. Had some concerns about the smell but it says fine for houseplants so I pulled the trigger.

Mixed up 500mL of water with about 2mL of the stuff. That’s half strength. It stunk but figured it was just because the open jug was sitting there and I had the slime all over my my measuring tools. It’s been a few hours and DAMN smells like my office is situated square in the middle of a fish sauce lake. Just like the picture on the bottle.

I feel like I’m on the red boat. I took them outside for a little real sun and some off gassing.

I guess you guys have proper ventilation and filtering for your indoor. How long for it to dissipate? A day or two?

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I’ve only used

I use it outdoors to supplement N.

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Doesn’t that go on food?

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