For sure and also why you can get a pack of Bhodi’s F1’s and end up with 10 different plants. No disrespect intended.
Selfing is inbreeding, more so than when making regulars. It’s why relying on selfing is a good way to more quickly fix traits. It’s also why it’s easier to end up with genes that you don’t necessarily want.
Tasty looking El’
I would call it extream inbreeding people dont get just how important a male is.
I broke enough my teeths with it in my young age to be strict/douchebag on it. Better to involve your researches on the inherent dynamics of the genotype used, to know/identify them and to work with them separately (for preservation). The plant will not give a damn fuck to preserve anything, if it have to crush an entire subgroup to improve its mass as population it will be done. What we are sicking the most as stoners are the weed quality/type, and it’s for the plant a consequence of its vital function. Not a top priority. It’s also the beauty of cannabis breeding in my book.
I don’t have problem with your believes in fact, specially if you get competitive results, but by your absolute formulation.
And it make me crazy. Like selfed landraces. But it’s another debate i think.
You don’t have to agree buddy, it’s cool don’t worry.
An homozygous state is not necessary a restriction of the alleles and how they are fed in their mechanism. You can operate a serious and skilled BX, finish with a rock stable line … and not having an homozygous line at the end. We will all swim in an ocean of high fidelity elite cuts stabilized in reg seeds if it was the case.
For this specific case, i will twist your consideration on the invisible traits lol An heterozygous line can be stable just because you control fully how is fed the DNA for the prior expressions that matter in your project.
It’s another polemic subject for me anyway, a good strain/line don’t have to be homozygous. Not even to be a good genetic material. And it’s why i like to work with the NH.
For the epigenetic leverages, the concept is pretty simple. The practice not, it involve some knowledge in phyto and to already be in ease with the line.
To be simple it’s like generating an artificial environnement prone to reveal or destruct the traits you want to work. It’s a bit reductive but in a way it’s what i do to screen my sources from herms, it’s not more complicated than this. In practice you can extend this leverages with everything used by the plant : light privation, specific nutes balances, high clay soil, PH extrems … i don’t say this for herms specifically, but to generate an answer of the plant that you can map as an human. And as an underground breeder with its inherent constraints also.
I don’t like to speak about selection, it’s pointless when this subject is treated in a generic way. You don’t select a skunk the same way than a NL, no matter the goal. But let’s be blunt a bit for the sake of the clarity.
Let’s say that you breed a strain for anthocyanins. The best way to map the potential is not to just flower the plants. But to generate an artificial condition that is enough extreme to trigger what is usually not shown, and make your ratios. So let’s say that in the tent you set the temp at 15°c, just before the stasis … to turn the maximum of the specimens and to judge the potential, the variations and its linked traits/subgroup.
It’s typically an epigenetic leverage. You can extend eventually to the concept of “terroir”, a clone that totally change his weed from two outdoor locations. And without any genetical drift, to make a loop.
Maintaining in the vegetal reign is pure control. It involve a cascading mapping of what is moving the strain onward its proper evolution. If you let the chaos drive it, you get chaos in return. It’s more than genetic 101, it’s everywhere around you and in your plate.
I’ve nothing against the open pollination, just against people presenting it as a method, a technic or even something used for any type of goal. It’s just a round of propagation.
Here we go, the hardy weinberg stoned religion and it’s derivatives ^^ It’s an absolute statistic tool to demonstrate a dynamic. Even a natural crop can’t enter in this kind of modelization. But a perfect excuse also to don’t work the lines : “no matter what, the line will be fucked up by depression, no sense to take the time to stabilize it or even to map it” ^^ i know the sing
Cannabis is a poly-hybrid mess since the begin. What changed is the care around it and the short cycles.
Also the transmission.
Selfing is backcrossing. Inbreeding practices are evolutionary, the opposite. But let’s call it an opinion.
The haze thread have drifted like Ken Block here lol
How do you get a completely stable but heterozygous outcome? These things would seem to me to be mutually exclusive?
The limiting factor here is the ability to make a selection, and the fact than most ‘elite cuts’ are the result of pollen chucks and then growing numbers and picking a good pheno.
Trying to recreate an elite cut in seed form is just a recipe for lots of work without success. Too many random variables and not enough precision in the ‘breeders eye’ method that most of us use for selection.
A plant is very rarely homozygous for every trait, but to breed true it should at least be heterozygous for the traits of interest no? Trying to achieve wholesale uniformity is rarely the goal, but rather it’s a case of focusing on the specific traits you are after and fixing those so that they are reliably expressed, at least that’s my approach anyways.
I guess it’s a preference thing, but I tend to like a strain that is a known quantity and will consistently give the traits I’m after and I try and work towards that as a goal, it it consistency passes the traits down then all the better because it’s less work.
A cross is more than a binary sum of their parts sure, as you mentioned epistatic effects via your stress testing may play a role as will each plants combining abilities, some great plants just don’t make good offspring no matter what you try.
Just a dude who likes growing good plants, no more no less.
I’m an Aussie mate; we often sound like we talk in absolutes even when it’s not intended lol. It’s all about learning bro. Now back to the regular program 
It’s the polite moment when we migrate the discussion on the sex of angels in the Vic High Altar thread or in the Mother Nature sux thread. More compliant with walls of texts not specially speaking about haze and sat hybrids ^^
Tag me there, and i will continue the discussion. I love to chit chat about breeding.
I did not read previous posts. Please tell me de quel tabarnak de culte que tu me sort ça.
Déménageons pour en discuter sereinement, là on va polluer méchemment.
Say you are a crazy scientist and grow many many plants, then everytime you cross path with a much better than average specimen, you self it to see if its homogenous and its not, only 10% of plants are like the mother, proving its non linear self compatibility/self combining ability, you set it aside and repeat the process. Once you have - for sake of argument- 11 such plants with heterozygous genotypes and start crossing them with each other, effectively testing specific combining ability, although each plants are hetero, on your journey you may find a combo giving rise to predominantly single phenotype.
Shit that sounded good. I is drunk and high as fook. Do the most with what you have. And if you have too much, set some impossible boundaries.there.
I hope my sausage finger did not mutilate what I was trying to say 
GL
Jsuis pas contre l’idée. Peut-etre un autre moment serait mieu choisi. On se voit de lautre coté 
Tu sais… on a des style vraiment different, je prefere les discussions droit au but mais japprecie le temps que tu prends pour detailler certain aspects. Big up
Question to those who were in those places in the 60s/70s; how many of you saw and smoked original haze in those years? I’ve asked this question almost everywhere and so far I’ve only found three people: Sam (obviously), Oldtimer (who however spoke about it indirectly, through hearsay from friends), and a third person who I can’t name who gave a version different from Sam’s, and somewhat similar to OT1’s.
I don’t want to start controversies or fights, I just want to know more and more things, more and more facts, about this beloved plant.
Thanks to all.
I love coming here for the knowledge but sometimes I think it should be renamed “The Deep Dark Rabbit Hole”.
Oh, I have a memory of someone saying that they where a haze dealer back in the days(70s). You apparently had a haze poster that was the sign of that you had true haze according to the story of this person. I heard it in a interview on a podcast, can’t remember which. Maybe someone else also heard the story and remember which one it is?
My instinct say that this person wanted to increase their credibility of knowledge through attaching themselves to the haze brothers story.
Pz 
I like to do it with a “strain” (damn I hate using that term with current cannabis) I believe I may want to work. The reason I do this is in case I lose something down the road, I can fall back to the original to try and find it again. Those seeds become an absolute last resort, nothing more. Basically, it’s just a safety valve. There really is no other reason for me. I then choose to work only those specific plants with the traits I desire.through clones.
Thanks! I hope become something really good
An Alpine Haze 1.0 from a friend
I don’t remember the cross on this one but it seems to be a good one
Graham’s Eyes
(Wedding Cake x Skunk #1) X (NH X O. Haze x Afghani x O.Haze)
A premature seed , but as she fought to live I did will take care of her.
Karma +
Finding the best requires a lot of plants to look through. Back in the 70-80s USA many of the best were selected in fields grown in Mexico or imported from other countries doing the same. Not many grow like this anywhere. A great example was the Rancho Búfalo Raid back in 1984. This 1 farm was growing 120 hectáreas of cannabis. There was another bust in 2011 in Mexico with the largest farm ever found 300 acres. In large fields like these, it was easier to locate the best plants.
Who grows like this today?.
That’s totally right
I believe the best sativas of yesterday was selected amoung hundred of thousands.
