Yes I have. My main issue is finding a driver over 150w and if that’s not a thing I can just buy meanwell drivers, but I feel like 150w drivers being the highest is way too limiting. I’m not a electrician though, so IDK if that’s a electrical safety thing
I see it had 320w ones, but they’re prohibitively expensive compared to using multiple smaller ones. I’ll have to look for that model elsewhere as Amazon is way too expensive for them when I know I can buy that model for much less if I look
Theres always the screw-in route if you’re going for affordability. 
I am currently in the process of building a 330w screw in light rig that will in the end cost less than $100 to build.
My 146w rig was about $75 and it worked great for a 2x2 space.
I already have the screw in route going now. I was hoping that the cost of a led build wouldn’t be so expensive for just 3 years of use. I’m actually leaning back towards hid lighting now as if I’ll be pulling 700w to achieve 35w per square foot I can spend less money on a hid, which doesn’t make sense. Leds are supposed to not only cost less, but run more efficient. If growing negates that rule why do we bother to use it in truth? Energy savings is one thing, but with comparable par I’m finding it hard to want to stick with LEDs for the same electric bill with a need to make it electrically safe or a fire will happen. If the things lasted longer I’d probably have not gone on this rant, but all I’m seeing is that hid and LEDs are currently comparable for a significantly cheaper cost to get a hps and mh both vs a single cob build twht lasts 3 years and all the hids need is a new bulb once in a while.
Rant aside I want to go LEDs. It’s just hard to consider them now when it’s 6x more expensive than hid
If I misunderstood set me straight, but doing the math is telling me that if I have to get 35w per square foot it’ll cost me more for LEDs not less. Do LEDs break that rule?
Up front costs vs long term savings. Where I’m at it costs $75-100 a month to run my 1000w HPS. For a typical grow it costs around $250 in electricity. I could get the same results with 500-600w of LED so we are talking double efficiency.
This is before even considering the other benefits that LED provides over HID.
For me the option is a no brainer. 1.5gpw on LED is just as good comparatively to an experienced HID grower.
My HPS hasn’t been turned on since I switched and likely never will.
I should also add that once it started sinking in how much more efficient LED is I replaced all the halogen bulbs in my house. A 60w halogen vs a 9w LED adds up quick when counting all the sockets in a household. The LED bulbs cost way more than halogen and even still after a single month of running the LEDs they had paid for themselves in savings.
So LEDs break the 35w per square foot rule? I get that they have a much higher par rating, but I’m Still confused on what rule I should be following with LEDs. RN I’m in a paradox mindset as I’m processing the bad info I’ve been told trying to make sense of it. If the 35w per square foot rule was a thing for led there would be no reason to use them at all when they cost that much more. Do they last longer than a few years or at least the drivers? From what I’ve been reading the drivers don’t last more than a few years.
I’ve been hesitant to switch to anything other than my current setup because it costs me $15-30 a month to grow with my 150w hps included on the high end of cost. So far every other options I look into cost 80 a month in electrical cost for me matching hids for cost per month and they cost that much more upfront. The upfront cost does not offset the savings from growing if they only last a few years vs buying a new bulb for 20 every other grow.
I’m still looking at about 500 more per year to grow with cobs. I’m not understanding why the upfront cost is never calculated in the savings everyone always talks about. In fact if I were to replace my LEDs and CFL with just my hps alone it wouldn’t be good, but it’ll cost me less at 10-15 a month.
I want to be set straight, but I’m having trouble with the math lining up with what I’m being told. It’s really strange
LEDs (on average at least) perform 1:1 wattage wise or better compared to HID systems.
They cost more up front for roughly the same results. So I can understand the confusion. 35w or higher per square foot can be used for both LED and HPS calculations.
They just cost much less to run in hydro bill and have arguably better coverage which of course plays a hand in getting better yields.
How long do LEDs last before needing to be replaced on average? That’s where my confusion is. Upfront cost is fine with me if I can get a longer life than I can with a hps.
I just don’t want to invest that much money to have to replace it before I could get my money’s worth back in electrical cost. Rn I’m looking at tripling my electricity cost for 6x more cost that won’t pay itself off for a couple years and I just need help to weapons my head around it as I would prefer to go LEDs as they have much more control.
From what I’ve been reading they don’t last long though. I hope I read wrong, but that’s my biggest factor in choosing what I’ll do from here.
Long term savings don’t matter to me if the device can’t last that long.
Good question. LEDS last 20-30,000hours and even higher in some cases (and lower in some too, depending on how hard you push them). In most cases you’ll never have to replace an LED light. Sometimes a diode or series of diodes may fail, but the rest keep on going. Another reason I love the ghetto screw ins is that if one bulb were to fail, it’s a $5 or less replacement. Never had that happen though.
Compare that to HID where you should be replacing bulbs every 3rd grow whether they fail or not for $50-100 each.
I’m also going to tag in @Palindrome as he is doing some cool stuff with Chinese gear that is cheaper per watt than HPS.
And of course @Mr.Sparkle, @anon58740919 and @Jellypowered who have documented their efforts with various DIY LED options.
Thank you! I think I just need the science of why as the base calculation has me paying off the upfront cost after 2 years and that’s not saving me money at all.
Cheers @TrevorLahey for the shout there.
@OniTenshu the only LED’s I’ve had that have crapped out so far have been the ones I’ve messed up personally. I’ve not had to replace a single LED due to failings anywhere but my own. Sorry I can’t be more in depth but I’ve not grown with them for 500000000000000000000000000 hours to give you a truly legit answer… I’m not sure many have
Thanks for the response. I’m just looking at it like an investment and if it can’t last me long enough to pay itself off it’s not worth the savings.
Now on the other hand if the lights last more than 3 years they’ll pay themselves off, but still be a expensive 2 year journey again once they do burn out.
I’m just not seeing the long term savings I keep hearing about when they’re being replaced so often for so much money. Do they really save you money when you calculate the initial cost and long term cost compared to hid?
Looking at my Meanwell spec sheet,
MTBF 207.9K hours minimum
Yes it’s not just comparable In the energy you save with your lighting. Imagine me trying to run my 18w Amazon special fan and filter to combat the heat from HID in a 2x4 
I built my first LED (citiled cluo48 rig powered by hlg320hc700a that’s been running a couple years now with no issues thinking about it)
More chance of a driver crapping out than the LED themselves and if you go for the meanwell option you got manufacturer warranty to take you well past your 3 year threshold.
Heatsinks etc will never need replacing. (And they’re usually a large cost in a build)
Build yourself a citizen COB rig. Readily available. Cheap to replace any parts that MAY fail.
Another way to look at it:
$250 per cycle to run my HPS. Running 12 months will require at least one bulb replacement at $50-100 each.
$350
That’s more than it costs to buy a new 1000w digital ballast, reflector and bulb.
At this rate, ignoring yield of final product, does an HPS really ever pay itself off? And we have to ignore yield of final product as this is a direct comparison of LED vs HPS cost efficiency.
Now for an extreme example.
My cabinet uses 146w, and I built the light for $75. It costs about $15 a month to run. It only took one cycle of savings to pay for itself two fold. Obviously this is an extreme low budget build with savings being the goal, but I could technically take the $200 I saved in electricity and build a solstrip rig with the savings. Do this 3-4 times now you’ve basically built a free SolStrip rig that outperforms a 1000w HPS and doesn’t need replacement or maintenance.
From an ROI perspective in comparison to electricity cost, the turn around seems to be in that 2-3 year range, do they last that long yes but depends on setup and other factors and leds do have drop off as well just like hps/mh just not as bad as. Typically your stated lifespan is to a reach your L70 point aka 70% brightness, ballasts though if quality will outlast your leds but whether you’re still using similar voltages or currents in the future is anyone’s guess.
Switch if you want to, don’t if you don’t pretty simple.
Its really a case of technology adaptation, i figure were in the early majority stage, as it has proven its worth is more efficient just hasn’t matched costs of “old tech”, once that happen or it gets closer then were into the late stages.
Edit: a little different take on it but essential the point
I’m closer to the skeptical end myself as I’m more about ROI while I’m learning. I don’t expect myself to get mega yields any time soon, but I want my cost of said learning to not be higher than it needs to be.
I need to process this all I guess, but so far it does appear that currently the cost is roughly the same after initial investment is accounted for until 2-3 years in. That’ll be 6-9 grows if I’m going the auto route. Also I’m seeing hid bulbs at 20 average not 50+, so that point keeps confusing me. Now as for the cooling costs that can easily make hps cost more, but it’ll still cost me less in a year vs the initial investment of LEDs into account.
I just want to know what I’m better off with as by the time the diodes burn out I could replace the hid bulb for full efficiency again, but I’d have to replace the cobs for much more than a bulb would cost.
I just keep getting more confused here. I’d prefer to switch away from hid entirely, but the cost is about the same once all the maintenance is accounted for.
Most of this rant is coming from me not understanding the cost efficiency once I put the math down and see it’s almost the same cost, but 6x more expensive to buy it for the same 30k-50k hour lifespan.
I don’t mean to annoy you all, but I’m freaking out a bit at the paradox in the math not adding up once the lifespan is taken into account. 70% efficiency doesn’t sound that good either and I’d most likely not waste my time with it at that point.
No one is pushing you to do anything bro, you can choose to do nothing at all if you want.
From my point of view i’m producing the same yield with 9 Solstrips running at 280W as i was with a 600W hps fixture. The electricity saved allows my Mrs to have a similar setup in which she grows autos.
We have effectively doubled our output without burning any more power and less powerful extraction cos of less heat generated means smaller fans, carbon filters, ducting as well as less power burned by the fans, it all adds up.
This is before i factor in a better tasting product than i ever got in 20yrs of growing with hps. The potency is also at least as good if not better as less resin is evaporated.
We could not run 2 hps lit tents in our warm house without running A/C which would add much more expense and noise.
In areas where legality is an issue and the cops use infrared cameras to spot grows it’s nice not to have that single point of blazing heat that hps lamps produce. They can spot that from a long way out btw.
If i think for a bit there must be a good reason why we are spending so much on led’s…
I know, how about they don’t fry your plants when they get close enough to produce a decent yield 
I can get behind that idea. It’s mostly an argument of cost per year to me rn as the cost per grow difference itself for myself personally rn is negligible. Maybe in a few years once I’m comfortable enough during my grow that the only questions I ask is about odd issues, but that’s pretty much where I’m at now.
While 15 a month is nice I’m on my last jar now and I’m a bit away from my next harvest. I’m trying to find my zone where I can keep myself medicated as I need to, so that I’m not living off ibuprofen while I wait on more weed. I’ll have to deal this time, but I’m trying to plan for the future. I go through a hour a month apparently and honestly I’m at 10g left to last me until harvest.
Tbh all of this is from me freaking out that I’ll have to go back to Tylenol to move around without my back grinding itself to dust or at least feeling it do that.
When I went into the diy mindset to get the pound I need between grows I’ve been seeing that it’s way more expensive than I can afford to pay for. I was raised to be as frugal as humanly possible when calculating long term cost, but I’m trying my best to listen to logic instead and at the wattage I need to achieve the yields I need it’s currently prohibitively expensive at 600-1k per light that I don’t have, but I could manage to buy a 1000w HPS/MH for 100-200. My problem is the electric bill will be too much with the cooling costs. If this summer when I just had my 150w HPS running is what you all deal with on average with a 1000w that’s really enough to deter me from that.
Sorry about the wall, but I just had to put it in words to understand what I’ve been told. Part of my disability I guess. Sometimes I can’t process something until I ask someone and that’s enough to Kickstart my thought process in the right direction. Again sorry for the trouble.
Something I just realized through all this is that you’re all using 200w or so to compare to the performance of a 1kw HPS with tastier bud?
Also what about CMH? I’ve heard amazing things about it compared to old tech hid.
Can someone show me the thread where @Palindrome is doing the Chinese cob stuff? I’m thinking ATM that’s where I’m most comfortable even if they don’t compare to solstrips or luminous cobs unless someone can recommend a good build for me.
I’m a total noob here and I’m just trying to figure out what’s best for me. I’m not trying to argue in favor of hid lights. I’m just trying to find the better investment and my learning disability combined with my anxiety attack made it very hard for me to understand what I was told.
I’ve smoked since as I realized after awhile that I was stuck in a cycling rant I couldn’t seem to break out of. Again sorry about that. I try not to as often as possible, but occasionally one finds it’s way out the cracks by surprise.
Not at all you’re asking the important questions and my empathy sensors are picking up how stressful this is for you and that’s the last thing we want.
I’m about to head out tonight or I’d get more in depth but a few quick answers:
200w led is not comparable to 1000w HPS. 1000w HPS can produce anywhere from 1-1.5gpw on average.
LED performs as well and usually better gram per watt wise as HPS, I’d argue it’s more reliable as I’ve struggled to get anywhere close to 1gpw under HPS but my cheap LED rig produced almost 1.5gpw.
I usually averaged about a pound with my 1kw HPS.
With my 146w LED rig I got 223g so I mean that’s half a pound but 1/7th the wattage.
Getting a pound of weed isn’t done cheap bro or everyone would and the street price would be less than catnip 
Ok i’ll try to keep this quick.
My guide to getting as close to a pound of weed with led’s is eight X3 solstrips actively cooled to avoid heat building and the need for A/C. Hang them in 4 x 4 tent with a scrog net and have 2 big yielding strains growing in 10 litre hempy buckets. seen it done and the led’s should be good for up to 10yrs if they don’t get overheated. The money saved in electricity over those 10yrs is awful if you if you own shares in an electricity supplier but i cant see any other drawbacks besides initial higher cost for the equipment.
