Alpine Haze 1.0

[StoneGuru]

Yeah, it’s a bit long winded. This particular line has most of the mutations most of the time. It’s rare to have one that doesn’t. Useful for tracking parental dominant and recessive traits. The trichome stem is Mexican origin, but the 50/50 in the picture is a recurring interpretation of alleles that come in many forms and display closely associated with meristem anomalies. The extreme root is also not a mutation, but the degree to which it occurs in this line is greater than any other I know of. If branches hang low near the soil root nodules will start forming and reach down.

Terpenes are at the top of my selection hierarchy. Then effect. The Alpine 1.0 has record ocimene and myrcene (3-5 times higher than other high ocimene haze on average) . No terpinolene which tends to overtake everything. If there was a terpene that would be considered the common denominator or most defining for haze ocimene and or camphene on Myrcene with no terpinolene would be it.

This was mostly learned in the last 2 years ~100+ haze entries in Piffcon. Being able to look at dozens of tests side by side from the same lab.

The rest of the places aside from eucalyptol are relatively low. The same reason that a perfumer would want a pure essence or distillation for making a complete composition is the same reason a breeder would have interest in this line. It’s the base notes and clean clear waves of effect

Many think of ocimene for it’s citrus herbaceous fresh state. On the burn it is pure clean diffused frankincense.

[StoneGuru]

There are many examples of more extreme mutation. Maybe @ThePotanist or @dx4 could give some insight on what may be occuring in these examples.

These are preflower sites, not branch/node locations. This will occure on one side of the plant and not the other in this example.

This series of 3 shots shows the whole leaf formations occuring not from the preflower sight, but from a location that growth never occurred, note the curl of the leaf into a golden ratio or Fibonacci spiral. This occured on half of the plant.

Many are familiar with the single leaflet bisec variegation of CBH. An old haze from Nevils pre 90’s stock.

We have also seen it on some chem D makes.

I suspect the mystery male of the chems found in 91 is pre-90 Nevils 5haze just like CBH. In Docs D’s bx of Bandaid 2.0 this trait accompanied on some, but in the Bandaid bx 3.0 it really became exaggerated. That particular male had more cbh traits and looks.

Something more happened though… a percentage of bx 2× had an overdrive in flowering where every flower site potential exploded into another flower site. This resulted in metrics of 4lbs over 5×5 canopy there is a picture above that shows the 3.4 oz flower from 1sqft of canopy.

This is an earlier example of progeny from that mother

It fractals or an exponential form similar or close to the Fibonacci sequence. It is not that far fetched as this pattern is found throughout the nature world.

This is significant. It is a trait where the meristem anomalies come it later. It appears as additive traits. Compounding through bx. The Silk S and Alpine 1.0 have what occured in these works, but to a much greater extend. The apparent additive traits is why the topic of ploidy became associated. Why does it have multiples of terpenes over other rather than just % of them.

When Silk S was crossed with Soulmates/Wookie/ (Chem D Bx.). The bisec variegation that is minimal in some chem D became exponentials greater. Half of all fans and flowers as well. Half of everything mutant. Similar, but even more accentuated than the Bandaid haze progression. Everything became amplified, but also greater variation.

The terpenes levels of this particular plant are radically more concentrated than either parent, but a different set.

The conservative assertions I can make:

-There appears to be an additive of compounded result in the recombination of similar ancestry and or these visual traits.

-The results are extreme and diverse.

-They occur with greater frequency with Nevils 5Haze origin.

-there are many inticators that the compounding or additive qualities seen in physicak attributes are also occuring in the metabolics. The terpene and cannabinoid levels.

There are 20 more testers of the above cross entering flower

[StoneGuru]

The stacking of mutant like traits through variations of bx that I am describing above is better depicted in this male from the Silk S accession.

And others

[dx4]

Just seeing this now it’s all the new stuff learning now. I can say for sure the first one is called meristem bifurcation.

All of these mutants are caused by mutation/imbalance of the stem cells population in the very tip of new growth called a shoot apical meristem
. The mutants make too many stem cells and divide too fast due to the “off button” for new stem cells creation is broken.

This broken signal is called clavata or clv for short.

Now with the increased stem cells tip gets bigger and more out of control each internode it builds

. Finally it becomes so big that it splits in 2 shoot apical meristems aka bifurcation

. There are many meristems in plants but usually only one shoot apical. Topping just reasigns older axillary meristems to become the main ones but they are way less powerful then a bifurcated meristems

So the weird growth is actually the old shoot apical meristem and it’s been abandoned due to the identical 2 brand new shoot meristems created by the bifurcation rising up on either side of it and taking over

This trait is extremely desirable and is also found in haze A. It’s more extreme then a self topping and the two nodes shooting up from old meristem make it a certainty

[GreenHighland]

Just noticed this after reading your last post. This was original haze repro from ag seedco stock.

[GreenHighland]

Also just noticing some double serration starting to show.

[StoneGuru]

There are many examples of more extreme mutation. Maybe @ThePotanist could give some insight on what may be occuring in these examples.

These are preflower sites, not branch/node locations. This will occure on one side of the plant and not the other in this example.

This series of 3 shots shows the whole leaf formations occuring not from the preflower sight, but from a location that growth never occurred, note the curl of the leaf into a golden ratio or Fibonacci spiral. This occured on half of the plant.

Many are familiar with the single leaflet bisec variegation of CBH. An old haze from Nevils pre 90’s stock.

We have also seen it on some chem D makes.

I suspect the mystery male of the chems found in 91 is pre-90 Nevils 5haze just like CBH. In Docs D’s bx of Bandaid 2.0 this trait accompanied on some, but in the Bandaid bx 3.0 it really became exaggerated. That particular male had more cbh traits and looks.

Something more happened though… a percentage of bx 2× had an overdrive in flowering where every flower site potential exploded into another flower site. This resulted in metrics of 4lbs over 5×5 canopy there is a picture above that shows the 3.4 oz flower from 1sqft of canopy.

This is an earlier example of progeny from that mother

It fractals or an exponential form similar or close to the Fibonacci sequence. It is not that far fetched as this pattern is found throughout the nature world.

This is significant. It is a trait where the meristem anomalies come it later. It appears as additive traits. Compounding through bx. The Silk S and Alpine 1.0 have what occured in these works, but to a much greater extend. The apparent additive traits is why the topic of ploidy became associated. Why does it have multiples of terpenes over other rather than just % of them.

When Silk S was crossed with Soulmates/Wookie/ (Chem D Bx.). The bisec variegation that is minimal in some chem D became exponentials greater. Half of all fans and flowers as well. Half of everything mutant. Similar, but even more accentuated than the Bandaid haze progression. Everything became amplified, but also greater variation.

t.

[StoneGuru]

This could blow up into really getting off topic, but there are numerous indicators that AG co used Nevils haze. There are always those outliers that tell the tale that names can’t hide. 2 people posted those outliers of the o-haze on the basement. Strait up NL5 structure, stature and profile.

It’s not a big deal other than the narrator’s made such a campaign about reinventing the haze story. The Nevil’s markers will keep surfacing even more in F2, but props on a well put together plan. In any even, hopefully Todd picked a good Nevil’s haze make for that project.

[ThePotanist]

@StoneGuru those pictures are great! I have been working on reviewing the polyploid literature in Cannabis and other fruits in hopes of making a well informed post! I promise I’ll get more information and posts made, just want to make sure I’m sharing good info!!!

The differences in sides of the plants is really interesting!!! This is something I have been looking into, to me it implies differences in ploidy in different parts of the plants. I wonder if the flower increase is due to increases in flowering genes copy number (by virtue of chromosome copying), but there are some really interesting epistatic interactions possible. Epistasis is complicated and unpredictable, but is an important component in natural and synthetic populations

Edit to add: Also, hope Todd did well because I definitely picked up a few packs of seeds from him!!

[GreenHighland]

I believe I was one of the people you are referring to that found a short and stalky outlier that finished way faster and was all conifer forest, was from the AG stock. I used a couple males and pollinated the outlier female and made these reproduction. Posted it in the haze thread over there a while back. Def going to be interesting to see what pops, curious to see if any of the shorter piney phenos pop. Also crossed that outlier to a reversed unicorn poop and everything that I’ve popped so far has been very heavily influenced by the haze mon side. I’ve read you saying that outliers can be very dominating when used and that is ringing true so far with the beans I’ve popped off the cross. All smell like jack Herer lol

[StoneGuru]

Yes, I am remembering now @GreenHighland ! That would be one I would consider for breeding. If you could tag me there I’d like to follow where you take that one.

So far selecting outliers for breeding has been very effective. Logic would be that looking for an NL breeder would be best found in Fgen line breeding of NL…it can be, but something goes slack and stratified…like butter across to much toast.

The truest to form ancestors I have found have consistently been the outlier and often in stock where the seed maker was selecting in the opposite direction. Aside from the speciation issue it would be like Brad and Angelina mating and making a chimpanzee baby. Accurately.

The result for outliers selections has generally been greater apparent dominance relative to selections of the general population. I suspect if the momentum isn’t maintain it would all come undone though…

I am also finding that when a deeper common ancestor is shared 2-3gen back (for example). It will pull forward cultivars similar to when that mating was done with relative accuracy.

Cannabis is an adaptive marvel and my theory is that one of it’s genetic lifelines is to have accurate throwbacks in the population. Not just variation of the last fgen, but occasionally much further back. I have no idea if this would hold up in every context. All of my testing has been primarily in NL5 haze where either was in the parental lines to some degree.

[StoneGuru]

No rush at all @ThePotanist . I am running quite a few more tests right now and will continue to add pictures.n I am grateful that you are taking the time to give greater insight to what is occuring and potential ways to apply, test or develop the traits.

I am hoping you and @dx4 will connect at some point. He has researched and compiled a massive amount of information from many resources that would also be helpful.

[Magu]

I popped some seeds of an ABC x Freakshow. These are f2 seeds. 2 seedlings have 3 cotyledon

leaves. Has anyone seen this? What kind of mutation is this? @ThePotanist @dx4

[GreenHighland]

Will do! I’ve been growing for about 25 years and it’s crazy to me that up until a couple years ago I never made any beans. Really happy I’ve taken the plunge and between reading you, dx4 and all the other guys I’m trying to catch up lol. Thanks again for all the info you share.

[ThePotanist]

So polycotyl is a condition that has been looked at a bit in science literature. From what I’ve been able to find it likely to be a recessive mutation for cotyledon producing genes or a mutation related to auxin production and polar movement. I havent seen any work done in Cannabis, so this is mostly a hypothesis based on work in arabidopsis and brassica species.

I think I remember in a discussion that auxin production was one of the mutant traits that was expected. If so, this could be an indicator at an early life stage.

[Magu]

Thanks. I didnt mean to highjack this thread. Sorry @StoneGuru . But these 2 seedlings and your earlier post of mutations are fascinating. I think I understand what is happening. More pictures please.

[StoneGuru]

@Magu no problem at all. On this thread I can share more examples or answer questions on observation where the Nigerian Haze thread is just to early on to contribute anything to the conversation. I am excited to learn more and pictures help.

I have had 3 cotyledon, but not in the higher numbers. Both of those lines have quite a bit of mutation in themselves. The Silk S x Soulmate is one that I believe has a similar mutation on both sides. The progeny have started with as many as 5 branches per node and some have stabilized to 3 in growth. In past findings with this trait showing early it tends to sort out or re-arrange in a less visible way by the 5-7 node. On the other hand I feel like some of the most important record keeping for tracking traits is done in this period

One thing of interest is the Alpine 1.0 mutations (petiole, floating node and fans) don’t start to come out until after the 5-7 node.

@ThePotanist, most of these mutations do seem like some kind of unregulated targeted/localized growth hormone. There is an addition picture somewhere. It was Silk S S1 (Alpine mom) full flowers started forming all along the top of the fan leaf stem toward the petiole.

What is interesting to me is that there are patterns, but where and when these mutations take place is so varied. I do believe that these imbalances are occuring in the terpenes themselves. This will become more clear by March with more Silk S x Soulmate.

With only one example so far I have no point of reference, but Silk S was record Ocimene and the pinene on the one coming down soon is higher than anything I have come across on either side. ~100 Alpine and ~50 Soulmate

Here is another mutation coming from this line

[StoneGuru]

@ThePotanist what do you mean by “an early life stage”

[ThePotanist]

If you know all plants with 3 cotyledons carry a trait you are after, then to select for it you can clear every seedling with only 2 cotyledons. Its not a perfect science, but it can be indicator. Same as if you have 2 phenotype, 1 broadleaf and 1 really skinny leafed. Maybe all the skinny ones have the PERFECT terpene profile and the broadleaf ones just don’t measure up. There the two traits would appear to be linked, you get one phenotype (skinny) you always get the other (terpy).

In absence of real genetic data this can be incredibly effective!!

[StoneGuru]

Another thing I have noticed is all of the plants in the Silk S x soulmate meristem mutation have a different physiology or composition in the stem. Aside from being thicker they are much spongier when pinched compared to cropping normal plants. The composition or structure of the herd may be different.