Is there a market for homogeneous genetics anymore?

Breeder's Lab
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#1

I’m curious about whether homogeneity is a valued trait in cannabis plants anymore. There was a time, when I first started growing anyway, when a lot of offerings were either inbred or were true F1 hybrids, and there was a consistency to the plants that sprouted from a batch of seeds. I then watched as time went by and the idea of “elite cuts” was invented, and people began shifting their focus to F2 generations where pheno hunting could be a thing. Then legal commercial cannabis became a thing and growers were primarily running clones and monocropping. That leads to today when the vast majority of offerings on the market are polyhybrids and pheno selection has almost become an expected prerequisite in every garden.

So I’m just curious, especially now that legalization has taken hold and there are thriving cannabis markets across the country and spreading outward, if there will be an attempt to homogenize genetics again so that large farms and production facilities could do runs from seed like more traditional agriculture?

As a home grower, not a commercial one, I would love to see the day when I can open a seed packet and I get ten seeds that are pretty much identical and match the description on the pack. I’m interested in hearing others’ thoughts on the matter.

:thumbsup:

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#2

I think it’s very heavily market driven. You stand to make more money pumping out the self labeled “next thing” in seeds or flower every few months than you will making a homogeneous line. And even if you do get one going it will just be bred to all the current elite cuts and touted as being even better because strain x is now in it.

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#3

Although the average consumer is after the latest-and-flashiest hype-train seeds, the market for IBL and true F1 plants has never been wider. Rising tide lifts all boats and such.

Give it a few years, the seed market price will crash, and places like Burpee will even get into the business. Then, there will be a secondary market with small time breeders preserving and working the more unique and specialty lines. I predict the era of $100+ seed packs is on its way out, in fact I believe the bubble has already begun to burst.

If you want a glimpse into the future, look at the heirloom tomato and pepper breeders.

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#4

Back in the day I bought a pack of 10 Brothers Grim C99 . I got 8 out of 10 females from them , all were nearly identical . I had similar results with a White Widow pack I bought as well but cant remember the breeder . Just saying .

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#5

In the US there is not much market for it anymore. I would say that Bodhi is your best bet. Seems a lot of his crosses come from some stabilized genetics and unhybridized landraces or heirlooms. I’m not into elites either, so I don’t really go for that stuff. Usually order from more interesting places in Europe… the usual suspects like Ace, Cannabiogen, Derg Corra, USC and the occasional offering on strainly.

I don’t mind getting 2 phenos in a pack, but the current market is becoming a disaster. Generations of crossing polyhybrids to polyhybrids with no stabilization… usually not even F2. I could walk into a dispensary here, smoke a nug from every strain they sell and not be able to tell the difference between any of them.

There’s no distinctiveness. I feel everything is just selected for that THC number and commercial yield, and everything else is just averaged together haphazardly. I don’t go to the liquor store and shop for the highest alcohol % for the buck. Dispensaries are all racing toward the 40oz malt liquor of weed. Steel reserve, Old E, and now some indistinct, unstable cookies hybrid clone.

I’m a grouch though. :joy:

40 Likes
#6

sure there is a market. I see it with hemp now. There are always going to be some people that select for similar traits and still create or offer IBL.

Real seed company for landrace, brothers grimm is back, i’m sure there are quite a few more but I’m not going to list them …

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#7

I agree.
All veggie/flower/herb seeds I have grown are far more uniform, and typically well under 10 bucks
for a nice pack.
When I first began buying cannabis seeds (mid 80s), they were significantly more uniform than I have purchased more recently.

FWIW, I have found Mandala Seeds to be consistently more stable than other breeders, with usually only a couple different genos/phenos per pack.

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#8

Why would a ‘breeder’ take homogeneous when the market clearly dictates clone a x clone b (rev)? Sadly the cookie market has taken over

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#9

:joy: :clap: LOL

:evergreen_tree:

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#10

+1 on this.

I have small gardens and can’t grow many plants so I’d like a less variable seed. No room for mother’s and finding a pheno etc so have to start from seed every time. It’s one reason I’ve tried doing some autos. To breed the auto trait into a photo line they have to go F4. Mephisto does a great job at this.

I don’t really like autos though tbh… Just grow them because I can order direct from a good breeder with a credit card and it happens to ship right from within my home state.

I’ve also had good luck with Dinafem for seed consistency. Grew out 4 of their strains in 8 plants this year and all matched the description for growth pattern, terps and effects.

Everybody is in their own situation, but there are definitely some of us who would like homogenous plants from seed.

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#11

Nope noone cares and very few will put in the work because it takes 10x longer than to do some flavor of the year f1 hybrids or reversals of clones and you get nothing extra. It’s like growing 20 week sativas instead of 8-9 weekers when you’re trying to make money. The few that are doing it are doing it out of passion not for financial gain. That’s the way I see it.

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#12

As a super-hot pepper grower, you are indeed correct. I am closely familiar with the person who truly developed the carolina reaper strain (not Ed Currie) and the hopefully soon to smash record pepper with the LA Creeper.

The only difference is more people like MJ than eating super-hot peppers (1Mil + Scoville). I enjoy growing super-hots and also enjoy doing the hotness ladder competitions for cash (or those free meals seen on man-vs-food.) May as well grow something I can partake in since I cannot use MJ.

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#13

Mandala seeds are my favorite when purchasing. I only wish their speedqueen never went away. It was fast to grow and finish, bug and rot resistant, and very beginner friendly.

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#14

You will see uniformity again when it becomes an agricultural crop. Clones dont work for planting fields, you need seeds and uniformity.

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#15

^ this. Also strains will be called super interesting things, like 7 of 9. :joy:

So needless to say, we’ll probably also see a resale market of Monsanto seeds, where the people who just want to name strains and make money can go wild.

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#16

I value the time and effort that goes into stabalization and its also cool because you could find your favorite pheno and then share coppies of it with all ur friends or customers… Homogeneity is also nice with the example of when you end up with a green purple urkle it makes it somewhat less marketable. Also there is a good blue dream and a bad blue dream so if you got the crap version first, you might think its a bunk strain.

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#17

Can you tell without smoking it? I really liked blue dream the first time I bought it (flower). Since then it’s been uninteresting.

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#18

I won’t get into my opinions regarding ‘breeders’, but I doubt there are many stable lines out there that are commonly available. I know the peak seeds guy has some stable old strains like c99 and nl that he’s taken to multiple inbred generations.

I’ve been thinking how nice it would be to find some stable autos with good traits and just run them over and over.

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#19

They are separating into different markets. There are benefits of selecting elite clone only plants and cropping that. Getting any IBL or even F1 to be as consistently good as a pheno-hunted, clone-only elite is difficult.

Hemp breeders especially emphasize homogeneity. The scale is too large for cloning operations to compete with planting seed. Autoflower breeders also necessarily value homogeneity, since you need every plant to be a keeper from seed, or at least very nearly so.

Also… there is only one Blue Dream. It is a clone-only.

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#20

This is somewhat confusing.

Fem seeds only from Humbolt (30 others available):

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