Exactly, patient is one of the things I’m learning more about in this journey.
at the moment it is bunch of peat and relatively fine grade vermiculite. I could get an old refrigerator and deciding to convert it to a growth chamber, temperature control will be much easier I guess compared to my previous attempt, a crude construction more or less like a typical grow tent with more insulating walls.
I think maybe posting some photos of the fridge and consequent germination trial would be more interesting
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There are a few people growing in old refridgerators now. Use the search function at the top of the page. Best of luck to you. 
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I am not an expert but do have a few (4) Bruce Bugbee method grows for experience.
The original Bugbee media recipe is 50% peat, 50% Vermiculite, 40 grams powdered garden lime (you want dolomitic as that supplies magnesium) per cubic foot (1 ft^3 = 7 1/2 US gallons) and 10 grams pelletized gypsum per cubic foot . One cubic foot is about 7 1/2 US gallons. Dolomitic lime is calcium magnesium carbonate or CaMg(CO). 2 and it does a couple of jobs. The lime supplies both calcium and magnesium in the media. The lime also brings the PH up to a 5.5 or so. The gypsum is calcium sulfate dihydrate CaSO4· 2H2O and it both acts as somewhat of a buffer and supplies both calcium and sulfur media. It may work best to mix the lime into the peat before adding the other ingredients. You can buy (at least) two different types of peat. unadjusted peat has a PH somewhere around 3.5-4.0 but most of the peat available in garden stores sell peat that has already been PH adjusted. I believe that is the problem with your mix, you unknowingly double-dosed the peat and it is now too basic.
This is Bugbees’ original recipe and he describes it fairly well in one of his videos. That particular recipe has worked for me quite well with one exception. Depending on the amount of excess water you use (10-15%) every time it is dry and the size of your container, the lime and gypsum are used up before harvest time. I learned that the hard way (twice). In my best grow the plant was repotted a couple of times in veg and then into a significantly larger pot about a week before putting it into flower. The plant was in veg a long time and it yielded 14 oz. of dried flower. The PH of my excess water from the plant was getting quite high at the very end of the grow. This is a true hydroponic media mix and Bugbee used to use Peters Peat-Lite Special 20-10-20 throughout the grow. The vermiculite does supply silicon but not enough to get to the end of the grow so Si should probably be applied. This is/was a truly simple set up with minimal purchases of unneeded high dollar weed additives. The fertilizer is water soluble (in seconds) and it supplies the needed micronutrients. The PH and TDS of the runoff should be checked each watering and the PH and amount of nutrients can be adjusted to keep yourself from overloading the plant with salts if there is an issue of some kind and it may be possible to increase the fertilizer a bit if you are having great growth and the runoff is low in dissolved solids (unused chemical salts from the fertilizer).
That original formulation works great with the exception of not enough lime to hold the PH stable through the entire run and the vermiculite not supplying enough Si.
Bugbee has now updated his method to:
75% Peat Moss
13% Vermiculite
12% Rice Hulls
0.7kg/m3 Wetting Agent (They use AquaGro 2000 M)
1kg/m3 Wollastonite
1.3kg/m3 Hydrated Lime
Bugbee has also stated that the Phosphorus should be upped after the first couple of weeks of flower. There are multiple bloom boosters available to adjust the P. I am using the pink Kool bloom powder. This method does not require additional additives and is NOT organic. The media is a bit organic but all of the nutrients are already in a form the plant can use. No need to worry about bacteria converting organics to available nutrients.
The hydrated lime adjusts the PH of the peat and the rice hulls also provide Si and fluffyness. Wollastonite is a silicon based mineral that supplies a ton of Si throughout the grow. I believe he is still reccommending the Peter’s Peat Lite Special ( the special is due to higher levels of some micronutrients) don’t get the general purpose. He is also working on adding some copper to the substrate to prevent various fungal diseases and copper works great and cannabis can tolerate high levels of copper. I believe he adds something for sulfur.
Bugbees’ method is meant to use tap water. There is no need for RO, distilled unless your drinking water is really out of whack. The water at Utah State is fairly hard and you actually might need to supplement minerals if your water is too clean.
I am currently growing with a Bugbee hybrid method. I am using his original recipe but with promix substituting for the peat, lime, and gypsum as it is already PH balanced and buffered and I am also using wollastonite.
I am not an expert, I do have a bit of a science background and have researched the Bugbee method quite extensively. I will try to keep an eye on this forum and would like to hear from others that have some experience with either of the Bugbee methods.
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Thanks for this extensive explanation.
I think you’re right, the peat was already modified and it is annoying not knowing what was added to it.
I actually watched most of bugbee’s videos and it wasn’t enough to make me confident to start again.
I also came across a pdf file of hydroponic solutions they use at utah.
hydroponic is not a choice at the time, supplying all the ingredients for solutions is a bit expensive and i want to do it cheap. also want to have a good amount of control over the process but seems like can’t be done cheap.
I was also getting worried about the micronutrients as I don’t have access to the same fertilizer, tried to use the pdf to find the right amount of micros. even finding any brand 20 10 20 is almost impossible, there are some online but out of stock.
20 20 20 is the most available. I may find something with similar micros.
another concern is water as you mentioned as I use reverse osmosis water for drinking and planning to use it for the plants, as I’m not sure about the tap water, only tds which is around 250 to 300, reverse osmosis brings it to around 30-60 depending on how long filters have been used.
I also noticed the importance of silica from the first bugbee video, the one you mentioned, explaining about the 50/50 mixture in details. is there any similar video for the new mix? I only could find one but not comparable in amount of detail to the old mix one.
anyway I got potassium silicate fertilizer for that, seems like the same as what is used in hydroponic solution.
with all the ingredients I have what would you suggest? can it be done with the 20 20 20 and potassium silicate?
by the way rice hulls is also widely available.
or do you see any safer alternatives?
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Bugbee uses 20-10-20 because phosphorus is responsible for the dead zone in the gulf of Mexico and a ton of other problems environmentally. Most plants don’t use nearly all the phosphorus that is given to them and it becomes a significant pollutant. 20-20-20 would work fine if you could find some with all of the micronutrients included similar to the Peat-lite special. Peter’s makes a citrus feed water soluble fertilizer in 1.5 lb. tubs that is nearly identical to peat-lite special and will work fine. The tub is about $20 and will easily grow 6-8 plants to harvest. The tub even contains a little measuring spoon sized for 1 gallon of water. 1.5 lbs. is 680 grams. At 2.4 grams per gallon that tub will make 280 gallons of watering solution with the proper mix of NPK as well as the needed micronutrients.
Hydroponic simply means without soil. This is a drain to waste (DTW) system. That simply means that you water to ~10%+ runoff and you dump the 10% down the drain (after checking PH and EC/TSP). The peat and vermiculite simply substitute for soil to hold the roots and you don’t need to worry about a lot of the other issues, additives, supplements because all needed nutrients in a form the plant can use are supplied either in the substrate or the fertilizer solution. There are no expensive “bro science” additives you need to buy. You use one type of fertilizer for the entire grow (with a bit of added phosphorus the last few weeks).
The Fertilizer Bugbee recommends is around $80 for a 25 lb bag. You use 0.6 grams per liter or about 2.4 grams per gallon of solution. 25 lbs is enough to grow over 100 very large plants. Your fertilizer cost is less than $1 per plant harvested.
The Bugbee system is designed to use tap water and tap water supplies some minerals and calcium and magnesium. Unless your tap water is not either extremely hard or very very soft it should be fine. My tap water is 240 ppm (this morning) and works great. No need for RO or distillation. I would be using tap water for the plants even if I had an RO system. RO is very expensive and wastes nearly 50% of the total water used.
The bag of peat should be marked as to whether it was already PH balanced and buffered. If yes, it will probably be marked that lime was used.
I don’t know if you have vermiculite but the coarse grade is needed to make the mix fluffy and hold a lot of water.
Maybe you should go organic.
Cheers.
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Bugbee does science stuff, trying to find the sweet spot for lab experiments, albeit on large scale appearantly.
It does however say little about the strains or how his environment affects everything etc. (he goes into a bunch of detail thou to be fair)
some Landraces need like 5PH, other strains might need 7PH to be perfectly happy. How high above the sea is he? whats his air pressure? etc, thats all stuff that dynamicly changes according to the other factors in your environment.
Your tapwater is likely different from his aswell, mine is very very nitrate rich and near 8PH.
Then you throw in how every bit of dirt is different, especially if you use organics, who knows what kinda mushrooms and buddies are in there and what they do.
Temp, soil airation, microorganisms, chemicals, etc all affect PH and plant needs.
Definately a good idea to follow Bugbees research and try to implement it in your own setup, but id also say “just go, its weed, it just grows, fix what doesnt work well”.
either way, You could just add a splash of lemonjuice to your water to quickly increase acidity for a bit from what i read, but i never had the need to do that.
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Thanks a lot.
Unfortunately I don’t have access to almost all of the brands I came across as suggestion online and should find something similar to what bugbee use if i stick with his method.
Thanks for noticing me about tap water. again as conducting a water analysis can be a bit expensive, and it varies quite a bit here, at least tds fluctuation throughout a year is a known fact. and good point on RO, never thought about the waste. I have a fridge with a inside dimensions of I do plan to do 6 pots at a time, each about 1 to 1.5 liter capacity and have to do a very short or no Veg.
hydroponics seems even cheaper to me now, considering reaching the same amount of nutrient control is media based(if I’m using the right term), needs water and media(if properties are unknown) analysis, but as I’ve never implemented either don’t know if it is a good choice for someone as inexperienced as me.
I don’t know if you read about my first try and two seedlings that died. It was disappointing and don’t want to have another failure.
peat also is repacked here this one I got have no information about the processing of it. I should ask the repacker.
if an easier and proven organic method is available I may try it.
I know little and should read more. my friend borrowed me “The Cannabis Encyclopedia” I had a look over the pH adjustment section but was busy and just finished the fridge.
Thanks.
I was thinking about the variability of tap water and media as you mentioned which I guess I wrote about all of them in reply to last toosoonold’s reply.
You’re right, I should take it more easy, but because of the first attempt and not having too many seeds(which I don’t know their gender) to experiment with looking for a safe recipe for the next trial.
oh, I don’t even know how relevant is the practice of growing only found seeds nowadays 
Weed is a weed and it will grow fairly easily. You can purchase or find some good topsoil or potting soil and use typical fertilizer just like you would use to grow tomatoes. You may need to supplement with some silicon and you can always add a bit of Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) and it should grow just fine. You probably won’t get fantastic results like you see pictures of on the Internet, but it should still work well. There are many resources on line.
Good luck to you.
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Tnx
I forgot to tell about the vermiculite I got. it is fine grade ( something like 1-3mm) and therefore won’t provide aeration as intended in the bugbee method.
I will probably add something like perlite or rice hulls since I can find them easily. or put these wrong ingredients I purchased and start with potting soil.
Thanks for sharing all these and keep elaborating on the post.
can you explain more about the second bugbee recipe and specially necessity and any substitution for wetting agent?
I am not sure why Bugbee changed his recipe. I believe he wants to incorporate as many needed nutrients into the growing media as is possible and the vermiculite did not deliver enough silicon over the grow period. Rice hulls release more silicon longer. Vermiculite is also a mined mineral that’s hard to find and it is expensive.
I don’t think the wetting agent is critical. It is used to make the peat much less hydrophobic. Water will just bead off of dried peat and the wetting agent will help it soak in immediately. I have to say I am not sure.
In one of his recent videos he says that they would like to incorporate copper into the media as it is a fantastic preventative and treatment of multiple types of fungus including powdery mildew and cannabis can tolerate levels at least a factor of 10 higher than most plants. I wish he would come out with a video where he explains the new mix and if he has a change to the recommended fertilizer.
Sorry I don’t know more.
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Thanks
I could get a liquid fertilizer with micros, could get the exact same ratios as Jack’s or Peter’s but it is the closest i could get.
it is still off it has around 60% more copper and zinc and 90%less magnesium. using more of it doesn’t seem rational, cause i will end up with same amount of magnesium but all the other elements will be much higher.
can i start with it and watch for magnesium deficiency?
I may need to add something to provide more magnesium.
the fertilizer also have 5.5 - 5 - 5 percent of npk but it has more micros so I figured out using 0.1 cc of it is close to 0.6g of the fertilizer bugbee uses. I will add the other npk fertilizer I got which is a blue powder to get close to the recipe.
can you suggest a better concentration than 0.1 cc in one liter I found proper? like if the plant can handle much more of other elements add more or if the other two which are zinc and copper can be problematic and adding less of fertilizer is recommended? as I understood cannabis can tolerate high level of copper so it won’t be a problem.
I also made a file calculating all I discussed. negative numbers means my fertilizer as i named it “complete fertilizer” in the file have less of that particular element.
Untitled spreadsheet.pdf (35.9 KB)
See what local Yucca extracts might be available in your area, here I can get Thermx-70.
…You don’t need much.
Cheers
G
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I’m not so sure your numbers are correct. If you have 5.5% Nitrogen and you are going for a mix that supplies 120 ppm Nitrogen (Bugbee). You need to do some math. 5.5% N is equal to 0.055. You wish to have 120 ppm so …120 ppm / 0.055 / 1000 = 2.18 grams per liter. If we assume that 4 liters = 1 gallon (it’s actually 3.8), you need 8.7 grams per gallon. One gram is = to 1 milliliter so you need 8.7 ml per gallon. There are 5 milliliters per teaspoon so you need 8.7/5 or 1.75 teaspoons per gallon to get 120 ppm nitrogen.
Now we need to do the phosphorus and potassium. If you have 2.18 grams per liter and 5% of that is P2O5 (44% phosphorus) you have 2.18*.05*.44 = 48 ppm phosphorus. potassium oxide is 83% potassium so you have 2.18*.05*.83 = 90.5 ppm potassium. That is quite close to Bugbee’s recommendation of N-P-K at 120-26-100. The extra phosphorus won’t hurt anything and Bugbee recommends going up to 50 ppm in flower. Now you need to take a look at what kind of nitrogen is in your mix (peat-lite is 12% nitrate nitrogen and 8% ammoniacal nitrogen. Yours should be a similar ratio but does not need to be exact. Then you need to take a look at the micronutrients and compare those with peat-lite. Magnesium can be added with cal-mag or Espsom Salts (magnesium sulfate) and Epsom salts are cheap. Can you send a picture of the part of the label with ingredients or tell us the brand and type of nutrient you have? Is it possible to upload an Excel file on this forum?
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If I target N,P or K micros will be much higher than the recipe. as the liquid fertilizer has higher concentration of micros and lower NPK compared to Jack’s, I should adjust the micros with the liquid one and add the blue powder which is only NPK.
there was a tiny error in calculating grams of npk needed but I checked other values and they were correct.
Excel files can’t be uploaded so I’ll attach another pdf:
Fertilizer Calculation.pdf (29.9 KB)
liquid fertilizer numbers are in w/v which is equivalent to g/100ml.
as both Jack’s and the one I got mentioned concentration of K2O, P2O5 instead of k and p It wasn’t necessary to calculate the mass of pure elements.
Jack’s guaranteed analysis: Peter’s is very similar
only there is a mismatch for Mg, liquid fertilizer mentioned mgo concentration. in the new file I added a compensating factor for that.
The liquid fertilizer also has some seaweed extract, I searched online and could find some chemical analysis and it was also added to the calculation but they are such small numbers that can be ignored.
Molybdenum is also absent from it. I don’t know how problematic it can be. Encyclopedia of Cannabis says its deficiencies and excesses are rare.
It also has fulvic acid and amino acid. what I could find was that fulvic acid at this concentration even of not helpful, has no harm. and about amino acids I found that fertilizers like this usually doesn’t have all the good amino acids so usually won’t help much and can be ignored.
Please correct me if I’m wrong or add to it if I’m missing something.
Regards