Building My New Soil

I defiantly want to look into SIPS a bit more- I don’t want to get into it with this tent, I plan to replace it within the year for some more space. Then I totally plan on some beds.

@GnomeyByNature How exactly did you set up your system? I love the idea of using the Blumats, they have been a godsend keeping my fabric pots from drying out.

@Catchin1 Much more feed than seed. I’ll have to venture out of town to find real AG supply, not sure if they’ll have what I want or not. It’s out by all the farms so I assume they carry all the supplies, but the other “feed stores” in town are just that. Dog food, cat food, lots of other animal feed. No gardening lol. Crazy.

I may just go with a blend for starters, then add as I need it. Mostly worried about stabilizing the PH.

1 Like

With living or organic soil you dont need to ph your water unless you’re using a very small pot or your water is reeally bad.

3 Likes

Right- but there are specific minerals that do the ph regulation, right? Sourcing them is proving harder than the fertilizers.

I do have another place to try today, failing that I’ll just bite the bullet and buy online.

1 Like

I’m am using Buidasoil.com ,
Started with the sphagnum Kit ,With excellent results.
Also have A Coir kit in the works.
The guys over there are great, Customer service A++.

P.S. Collecting local sources and implementing some Natural Farming techniques to further build the soil.

Grace and Peace

3 Likes

So I been trying to see if I should ph my water in my organic grow… I’m run my autos in a 3 gal fabric pot happy frog as my medium using RO water… leaves are green but growth seems to be slow… I think first time with autos

I dont have any experience with autos but RO water is your safest bet when watering. Check out Reiko’s thread: ReikoX's Workshop 2021 - #164 by Beerus (grow stuff is the latest updates) He does autos and waters with RO

1 Like

I have all the parts but have yet to set it up… depending on your size, they(sustainable Village) have premade kits available, else you have to do a custom order like I did where you order the capillary mats, perforated plastic, blue soak tape, fittings, tubing, pressure reducer, blumat surface mount etc

FYI, apparently you should try to stay under 5” of soil height in container. It is recommended for small containers I believe, 2 gallons and under.

I’m doing a lil bit of a weird/experimental setup(also cause small pot with somewhat living soil, which is sort of a no no) where I am taking a 5 gallon fabric pot (wrapped in plastic, cause Grassroots were out of stock), filling halfway or less (5” or less even to leave amending room later) so I can stay within that height limit but still have some decent amount of soil with it being wider… these will actually be for the mothers and I’ll be doing the same with 1 gal pots for seedlings and cuttings going to flower after rooting (sog style a bit).

I need to copy/paste that for when I get a grow journal goin :joy:

2 Likes

Interesting on the soil height. I hadn’t heard that, makes sense though. I don’t plan on anything under 3 gal myself, even then flowering in 10 gal. You’re more optimistic than me!

I am finishing up a grow in 3 gal right now and they’re on the smaller side for my taste. I like to give them 4sqft per plant though, far from sog lol. Will be interesting to see your results.

1 Like

Oh yeah his page is my go to for any and everything

I expect to fail a decent amount or completely lol

2 Likes

Some Ace hardwares or Tractor Supply have good stuff,

1 Like

Down to earth is a repackager. They don’t actually produce anything. I’ve used their products, and while there may be better, the DTE works just fine.

As far as mushroom compost, I’d be careful with it.

Mushroom Compost

Quote:
First, Mushroom Compost is not real compost. The real name of this product is Spent Mushroom Substrate (SMS). It is called “Mushroom Compost” as a marketing ploy to help dispose of it.

SMS is made from a combination of wheat straw, dried blood, gypsum, lime or crushed limestone, poultry litter, cow or horse manure & bedding, hay, corn cobs, cottonseed hulls, cocoa bean hulls, clay, peat moss, etc. depending on what is available in a given area. The material is partially composted for a few weeks and then steam pasteurized (sterilized) which kills off all of the beneficial microbes. Then the material is then inoculated with the species of mushroom (fungus) that the grower wishes to produce. Additionally, the material is often loaded with table salt (Sodium Chloride, NaCl) to ensure only the desired species of mushroom will live and grow in the substrate.

Several crops of mushrooms are raised and harvested on this substrate until yields start to decline as the original nutrients are used up. When the nutrient level drops to low to raise mushrooms, it is at this time the substrate is replaced by fresh substrate. The old used substrate must be then disposed of. Worldwide this is over 4 million tons per year.

Common Problems:

Studies have shown decreased plant growth and yield at levels as low as 5% SMS in a mix due to high soluble salts. Other studies have shown it may have a high pH level which is harmful to plants that like acidic conditions.

Even the low quality bagged manure often sold in Big Box stores often has 3X the amount of nutrients.

Mushroom growers have major problems with fungus gnats hence they regularly spray with toxic chemicals such as methoprene, cyromazine, diflunezuron, Dimlin, and Diazinon. Other toxic chemicals occasionally used are benmyl, thiabendazole, and chlorothalonill. Hence SMS does not meet the standards for use in organic production.

The SMS is often stored in large piles that become anaerobic. This allows pathogens to growinthematerial. Theputrefyingorganicmattercrea tesorganicacidsthatoftenhavea strong odor. Common odors are vinegar, sour milk, vomit, rotting meat smell and occasionally ammonia or rotten eggs. All these odors indicate that alcohol is present which is toxic to plant roots in concentrations as low as 1 ppm.

Benefits:

SMS is organic matter and still contains some nutrients. Since most of our area soils are very low in organic matter it may provide some benefit. Best results occur in sandy soils in areas with lots of rainfall so the water can wash out and leach the salts. Note: In clay soils the salts help glue the particles together helping to create hardpan.

Comment:

The quality and usage of SMS varies greatly around the world, from good and useful to very bad and toxic based on regional customs and local regulations.

5 Likes

Dammmm … thats crazy info man. I think ill be sticking with Regular Compost then.

5 Likes

Damn…remind me to never BUY mushroom compost…my neighbor is 100% organic and uses no pesticides etc…he uses it once and replaced it…it is cow/horse manure, straw, pumpkins, squash etc…all the rejects from their organic farm etc…
Good info, thanks bro…I had no idea that commercially is was a “bag of shit”.

5 Likes

Yeah, good humus/compost sources are really hard to find imo. That’s awesome you have someone close to you that you know what inputs were being used. :+1:

3 Likes

Your answers will be found here:

3 Likes

SIPs are great but they’re heavy and hard to move. Here’s a PDF I made about how to DIY some that will keep your plants watered for 2-3wks even when they’re big.

SIPs Build Log 2Po.pdf (701.7 KB)

I’d suggest using 10gal cloth pots. 5 or 7gal don’t have enough soil for the rapid growth of the system. It’s honestly like the fastest hydro when you get it dialed in.

About amendments, Down To Earth is great and works perfect. That’s what I was using exclusively before BuildASoil came on the scene. I would suggest getting your recipe together, make a list of everything you need, and then visit a local nursery. They should carry DTE brand and it’s likely to be cheaper than Amazon. You can probably also get quality earthworm castings and compost locally, but the compost can be iffy. Usually you can get Oly Mountain at good organic nursery supply stores. Peat just get at a big box store, same with perlite (but better to use pumice or rice hulls).

BuildASoil is great if you can get their free shipping stuff. I wait for sales and get big containers of whatever stuff they’re shipping for free. Their 25lb bucket of kelp is a lot, but it’s worth it for the best kelp you can buy. Same for everything else they carry - literally the highest quality you can buy, but it doesn’t make sense if the price per pound is much more than Down To Earth brand when you include shipping.

As for water pH, anything in the range of 6.5 - 7.5 out of the tap is fine and won’t need adjusting. Outside of that, you may run into problems over time as you recycle your soil. Instead of trying to adjust the pH of the water, just create a soil that adjusts your rootzone pH for you. If your water is 8.0pH, make your soil a little more acidic. If your water is 6.0pH, make your soil a little more alkaline.

This all sounds easy in theory, but it’s hard to get the ratios of the amendments in a soil mix right. I and a few others have recipes around here for both high and low water pH.

I suggest not using lime to alkalize your soil. Instead, use oyster shell flour. It takes longer to break down but adds lots of calcium. However, keep in mind that you can use too many oceanic inputs - kelp, oyster, crab, shrimp, fish bone meal all can add sodium to your soil, so that can be problematic over time. Just cut back on the crab/shrimp if you experience issues and substitute with a similar amendment.

About calcium, gypsum has a ton of calcium and you’re unlikely to be able to use too much of it. Plants can use a lot of calcium and it’s hard to overdo it unless you’re supplying it from a very alkaline source ingredient, so don’t skimp on that stuff. Anyway, hope that helps. :slight_smile:

8 Likes

Ok, now I understand these better. I was over complicating it in my head. So wow- this really wouldn’t be dissimilar to my current setup if I chose to use the Blumats as a “wick” of sorts.

So, why the cutout in the root bag? If you left it, water would still wick wouldn’t it, and the roots will not enter the reservoir?

I actually had this idea and didn’t even know it. I wondered months ago if I couldn’t just use a wick (my only thought at the time was felt) and set it near a reservoir. It sounded fiddley and awful so I just bought the Blumats. You came up with a much cleaner solution!

2 Likes

My reason for going with SIPs instead of Blumats is that I don’t like to have to rely on pipe and hose fittings not leaking when I rent. It’s much easier to prevent water damage if there’s no place it can leak.

But, since you splurged on the Blumats, by all means, use them! :slight_smile: You’re going to want much bigger pots than 3gal for organics, though, like I’ve mentioned before. 7gal should be your final size at minimum if you veg for 2mo, with the final 2wks being in the 7gal before flip. And 2mo is kinda the baseline for adequate sized plants before you find keepers and start running clones.

In general, 2mo of veg (counted from seed popping above ground, or from rooted clone being planted in dirt) should equate to 2-7zips per 7gal pot depending on cross & pheno, but you greatly reduce that amount with less veg and smaller pot sizes since the plants need some level of sexual maturity to reach optimal production.

3 Likes

If you go with gypsum would you still go with the oyster shell? I was thinking of going dolomite for the magnesium in combo with the gypsum.

2 Likes