CrunchBerries’Probiotic SIP Thread

Indoor Growing Organics
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#125

I’m not sure what you plan on using as your medium, but if you are planning on leaving a permeable lid on your container, it will be very hard to have a LABS dominant culture unless you are using a source that is very dominant in lactose(hence why milk is normally used). By leaving it open air, you are letting any and all microbes in your environment in to the food source, and without properly steering them, there is a high chance what you culture will not end up lacto dominant. Not that what you end up would be useless, just more likely to be dominant or co-dominant with other yeasts and bacteria and not LABS.

There are other ways and options that you can steer away from milk if that bothers you for some reason, but if it’s LABS your after, you need that lactose to help steer you there, or you need to start with a known culture and propagate it without allowing for much contamination.

I’ve done a bunch of lacto fermentation(mostly food and beverage based, but for the garden as well) so if you have any questions about your process, let me know.

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#126

Dude! Those are so cool! If you ever get to the point where you are making them for sale, let me know!!! Keep us updated brother!

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#127

@bassman5420 this song is dedicated to you!

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#128

Thanks for the feedback appreciate it.

There’s a video I posted further up in this thread where he makes LABS without milk.

He uses brown rice, salt , sugar & mineral water but closes the container opening it 2 times a day to remove the air/gas.

This is the process I wanted to follow but I was hoping to have a more hands of approach and basically use his approach but with the milk method of LITFA.

I hate the smell I don’t drink dairy. I do have some made maybe I could put some of that into the no milk method?

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#129

I used older labs to culture a new batch, but with milk. Try it and see. Worth a shot!

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#130

Yeah if you have a good solid culture going you could definitely use that. If the culture is just LABS there shouldn’t be much gas produced(if it all), but it is going to be rare that it’s completely clean.

I’d say with that method if you don’t want to have to touch it you could easily put an air lock on it. That will allow gas to escape without allowing anything to get in. Inexpensive and widely available from homebrew shops. They make some that fit mason jar lids as well.

If you find a need, you can also procure lactose from a homebrew supply. I’ve never done it, but I don’t see why you couldn’t culture with that if you want to. I don’t think you need to do that if you have a solid culture to work off of already, but if you ever lose that culture and you want to get back to LABS dominant without using any kind of dairy that could be a good option. Likely you would want some kind of addition of a mineral source or something to keep the culture really healthy(unsure on this as I have had the need so I haven’t gotten that far into the minutiae of what lactobacilli need for optimum health). I just figure anytime you use something so isolated, you usually need something else to round it out for optimum health. I small bit of grain or molasses or something. The beautiful part of the lactose is that other than lactobacilli, there aren’t too many things that can digest it.

Fun milk fact, raw milk contains enzymes and cultures that help break down the lactose and make it digestible. Most people who are lactose intolerant will have no issues with raw milk or dairy products that have not been pasteurized.

Sorry for being so long winded. Hopefully some of the info is useful

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The Canadian Contingent (Part 1)
Free Seeds & Free Clones Thread (Part 11)
#131

I’ve never heard of using an existing batch of LABS as a starter like that, sounds wicked interesting, I’m gonna have to look that up, any resources you’d recommend?

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#132

No worries! I like long winded answers! Ha! Thank for the information

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#133

In your milk LABS how much culture are you adding to the milk to get it going? The same 1:10 ratio just straight into the milk?

Wouldn’t that be the salt?

You can be as long winded as you like :slight_smile: I’m with @CrunchBerries I like them :+1:

:peace_symbol:

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#134

I was talking to a dude over on the RIU sip thread who had experience with using the old labs to culture anew. I gave it a try and it did indeed work. I guess it would be akin to a sourdough starter perhaps.
I was watching a discussion the other day about the famous 8-27-72 Veneta, Oregon GD show. The hosts were talking to Ken Babbs, famous Merry Prankster, and the owner of Nancy’s yogurt. The show in 72’ was a benefit to support Nancy’s company. Yogurt was new then and the company was struggling.
Long story short, they asked Nancy about how to start making yogurt from scratch and her answer was to get a good culture, like using Nancy’s brand as a starter culture. So I think a similar principle would apply.

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#135

I did 2:10, but the curds were still not as thick as fresh rice wash mixture.

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#136

That is a fun milk fact!

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#137

Oh yeah, with that recipe you listed there are plenty of rounded nutrients. I more meant if you were to try to culture in a lactose solution, you would want to add something other than just the lactose ideally.

You could use that recipe and use lactose as you sugar source if you are in need or better selecting for LABS dominance. Otherwise much like a sourdough culture, which yeasts and bacteria dominate will fluctuate based on environmental conditions and available food sources.

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#138

Thanks for the reply. Now my head is really spinning.

So I think I will ask can I make LABS the same way as in the video but with a cheese cloth lid like it’s done with milk.

I don’t want to be buying anything from the brew shop lactose or make it anymore complicated than it has to be.

I’m not sure what is dominant etc… I just want to make a LABS like the milk method but without the milk.

Just do everything as explained in the video (no whey) LABS but without a closed lid, just a cheesecloth lid so I don’t have to de-gas twice a day.

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#140

They are in stock right now.

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#141

Yeah, I should have probably worded it better, my fault. We were talking about SunRa as a freebie @ GLG, which they appear to be out of now (they had something like 250 this time last year and just ran out now).

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#142

Got it. I didn’t realize the freebie thing.

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#143

So what you end up with could be used as labs maybe, or hooch(much more likely) with some tartness. Taking a simple sugar source and putting in open air like that is also exactly how beer/wine/hooch was made before we were culturing yeast. Yeast moves fast, as fast or faster than lacto at most room temps. Even if you end up lacto dominant, the alcohol content would likely be higher than you are looking for, and it will be more of a mixed culture. This also means the PH may not be as low as you would like. It may still work fine in your applications, it may not.

It’s a real roll of the dice. I wouldn’t do that, or recommend it, if LABS is what you are after.

And airlock is around $4, and you could use it indefinitely and will keep things from getting in. You can get them for buckets, carrots, jugs, mason jars, all kinds of containers. And if you are fermenting things they are really useful.

If you really want to do it how you outlined, at a bare minimum I would say use a known culture to inoculate and use foil as a lid. Gas can escape but it’s much harder for all the airborne micros to find their way in. Use a good healthy known labs culture to start though, and make sure all of you stuff gets cleaned and sanitized otherwise you aren’t giving the lactobacilli a chance.

By skipping the part of the process that helps select for the lacto, you think you are simplifying things, but I think you will find it’s just as likely to make it more complicated, because if you are trying to grow them in an environment that is hospitable to all kinds of micros, you need to have very clean tools and containers, and have you cultures and inputs be clean to get good results repeatedly.

I understand why you have the idea of wanting to skip milk, but please understand that that is a key part in the process. There are work arounds, but to proceed as is with out doing anything, honestly I think that a waste of your time. But hey, it’s your time and your life, go for it if you want. I’m just trying to give you the information and tools to get you what your after.

If it was me, I’d either use a strong fresh labs source, sanitize everything (ingredients included) and do it with a lid, or use a lactose source to select for labs

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#144

Roger that.

I’ll just go with the milk version like I have already done and put up with the smell :slight_smile:

Appreciate you sharing your knowledge and taking the time to reply :+1:

:peace_symbol:

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#145

I got floaty bits in my LABS and it has a type of skin on the surface been in the fridge since I made it.

Noticed that it may have whey settled on the bottom too and maybe floating around the solution…

Strange cause I used a very fine nut milk bag to strain with.

Is it still good or should I just make another one or just strain it again?

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