Damn you demo is dope, for the same i need to use fancy analogies no one understand generally ^^
I noted lol
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@Fuel , I like a ramble haha
( a shameless bump to my old topic )
: )
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If they are shaded they should come off. Otherwise the plant will waste energy sending abscisic acid (C15).
That’s like 3 terps and a cannabinoid worth of carbon wasted.
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Again, there isn’t a right answer because the question isn’t well made.
Defoliation vs no defoliation is a usual mistake question that only may make sense for a specific type of media or grow, appart from the genetic traces each individual plant shows.
Things are quite different outdoor to indoor, soil to hydro or aero.
People usually crave for a one answer fits all but the true is that you need to try and have your conclusions.
I guess that from what I see a untoutched plant produces more, maybe due to the lack of stress, and I grow in soil indoor.
Usually the harder to reach corner plant have better yelds because is more far away and I don’t defoliate but if running photos I like to defoliate and let the buds have light on them despite being a stupidity for me I like the way the plant looks and I remove less good looking leaves so tjey look nice in the pictures.
But yeah, better yelds if not defoliated. - this for me.
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boronsensetingling
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I commented once that someone’s “premise” was faulty and the butthurt was profound. But you are right: I think I set it up as an “either/or” when the truth is closer to, “yes, and no, and it depends.”
No, it isn’t comfortable, but it is very likely truth.
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All: Thank you. I don’t care what your comment was.
I just wanted to learn, and I did.
And I learned I have more to learn.
I take that as a good sign.
I appreciate us being able to have a discussion about our experiences and what we have learned, and not make it some big, acrimonious, zero-sum, right/wrong thing.
I’ll always be looking for comments here. 
Thanks all.
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I invite you warmly to dig this lead. Without re-affirming my position, it’s something that i find primordial to digest for many usual maintenances we have. Overall.
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I appreciate the encouragement, Doug! Just temporarily feeling stuck – like I’ve given up two years of my life and haven’t even grown any weed that can trounce dispo crap.
I get it, that the process of learning (my two years) is inherently inefficient (too little ROI on time/money).
I’ll make up for it on the back end. My baby steps are deliberate. I have to remind myself of that, and stay grateful for people here like you.
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Like aspirin? Wow. I find myself naturally wanting and needing now to know biology and botany, and this just leads me further into that forest. Thank you. I love it.
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We won’t have an answer until several people test two rows of clones aside lol.
Who wants to set that up on OG?
Though there’s also something unclear with that word: for some people it means removing fan leaves, other times removing that AND lower bud site.
That’s two different things that have two different effects I think. The former acts on the plant stash, the later on the hormones and the roots.
But when we’re talking about all commercial bud ops doing it, I think it’s a specific context with a specific growing protocol. And I’m pretty sure a good deal of why they do it is climate and mold control. Because, you know, they care about the consumers 
It’s also probably more cost effective than paying people triming larfs (or even finding people to pay them for that work).
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Indoor LEDs don’t have very good light penetration. But probably not necessary outdoors when harnessing the power of the sun.
I’m not a fan of excessive defoliation where people strip all the leaves except for a couple at the top. The plant’s nutrient stores are in the leaves so I don’t think that makes sense.
But a mild defoliation and lolipopping to increase airflow, light penetration, and re-direct growth to the top? Perfect!
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Bummer hermano, what genetics are you working with? Haven’t gotten anything better than the dispo in what way, potency/flower quality or getting plants to finish nicely?[quote=“navy66, post:49, topic:154569”]
I appreciate the encouragement, Doug! Just temporarily feeling stuck – like I’ve given up two years of my life and haven’t even grown any weed that can trounce dispo crap.
[/quote]
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You’ll figure it out man. If you ever run across anyone that is good at something, know that they’ve screwed up just about everything possible to get there.
I have shit harvests too sometimes. My form drifts. I don’t take awesome notes, I have too many things going on in life… too many hobbies, too many plants at different stages of life, in different soils; organic mixes that have been recycled and reamended by total guesswork (often after a six pack) and based on what I happen to have at the moment. “Crab meal? yeah sure, whatever, crab meal… in you go!”
If I start having a couple harvests in a row that could be better, I’ll use an empty soil mix, like fafards, sungro, baacto, or some other inert bagged commercial growing mix; just peat, lime, perlite, amend with osmocote plus and just get back to basics… Light, water, air, and time… then start messing with soils, defoliation, or whatever other techniques once I’ve had my refresher course.
Oh and regarding defoliation, can’t say which is best, but I try to keep it to a minimum and only snip off the most egregious of offenders and lower bud sites. I shoot for healthy, happy plants over number of ounces.
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Agreed, especially since I run long flowering stuff and landraces, every leaf is like a battery so I don’t prune anything to give me the best odds of making it to a healthy harvest.
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New growers are obsessed with yield and quality. Take a step back, take a deep breath and observe. Not just what you’re growing or how you’re growing it, but how others may be as well. I’ve learned more from failure than I have from advice on the internet. There’s a lot of experience here, but we all grow differently to some degree and what’s good for us may not be good for you.
In another couple of grows you’ll realize that most of the quality and vigor comes from the genetics, followed by your environment 
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I can say that until now I have been growing the same strains over and over and That’s what I observe, still may be necessary not to overcroud a space so it’s all up to the grower.
@navy66 I’m saying chet but I only have been growing for 3 years now without stop and there are some stuff we need to adapt and learn, mostly watering discipline and feeding discipline, but in 3 years indoor I already had some pests like a bitch caterpillar very small that was eating leaves away… This to say that we start somewhere and we grow from there and despite how many books are impressed with the basics the grower needs to go on the nature way and think a bit.
For example I have no trouble growing weed but oniuns? Carrots? Not with me, I have been trying but they don’t come in THC form… 
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Limited genetics. Keep in mind, yeah, I’m whining. But I’m no different than any body else, I’m sure.
The first time was two Bruce Banner clones from a dispensary. First grow ever. Three quarters of that crop was lost to spider mites. The rest was just ok.
Then a Gary Payton clone that I probably got about 90 dry grams from.
Then I bought Barney’s seeds. Acapulco Gold, Cheese, Laughing Buddha and Amnesia Lemon, all feminimized.
The Cheese was last grow. It was definitely a better yield, esp for the shitty job I did growing it – maybe 80 - 90 grams dry per plant.
@LoveDaAutos kindly hooked me up with some autos (my first) – Double Grape and HubbaBubbaSmelloScope, which are in process.
And en route, I have a Jamaican lambsbread seed on the way from @Upstate which I am super thrilled about.
Again, yeah, I’m grrrr about this today. Frustrated at how much I’ve put into this, and the slow and shitty rate of return for me. It’s my own fault. I get that. My way of learning, ignoring pH last grow to see what happens, etc. That doesn’t help matters in the short term.
For once, I just want an effing grow to result in slightly-above average weed that isn’t massively deficient in some way lol.
I am looking back at 2+ years right now, and looking at what is next.
I have to germinate now if I want some cured weed by Christmas.
I’m having trouble getting super excited by the choice.
Self: “What perfectly good varietal do you want to shit all over this fall?”
I still like the hobby. Just irked. At me, and the plants, too. For no reason at all. lol
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This made me think of something I tell new guitar players (I’m self taught). “You have to be okay with sucking for a while. Let the joy carry you. You’ll stop sucking soon.”
It’s stupid simple and 100 percent true for guitar, in my experience.
Maybe weed is the same. . .
Thanks for the encoragement, @Ivy
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@navy66 join the octopot crew
: )