Need some help getting off the bottle?

Indoor Growing
#1

Here is where ill help you guys get off the bottle and onto the natural farming techniques. Ask any questions. Tips on switching. How to setup a tester pot. Where to find inputs in your area. How to make this or that. Why you should switch etc. I wanna get as many people doing natural farming as i can! Even if its one pot at a time untill you believe!:slight_smile: this will be a fun thread to do!

I hope one day before you run out of salts we will all be off the bottle:) i got off the bottle when i was just a toddleršŸ˜‰

Namaste
Lotus

28 Likes
Advanced nutrients
#2

Iā€™m in prof ^^ Iā€™ve tons of stupid questions in stock i promise. The first one : the concept of no-till itself ^^ Donā€™t beat me.

All i known about it (near nothing) is outdoor crop that are called here ā€œpermacultureā€ that imply to never touch the soil in any way possible. Iā€™m unable to extrapolate (mentally) it in indoor conditions in single pots, itā€™s where iā€™m lost first.

I will be very thankfull too if one explain me the difference between a full organic grow (like ā€œcoockingā€ the soil with natural amendment) and a no-till grow, outside the use of a living vegetal mass in surface. I mean, the medium are the same or it exist a rule that separate the twos ?

big up

9 Likes
#3

well when you speak of ā€œcookingā€ the soil it actually means composting. the soil heats up real hot because of all the amendments in the pot. In no till we use much less amendments so we dont have to let it compost. you can plant right into the soil as soon as its mixed. we have a life in our soil that does all the work for us. with bottles you force feed your plants and in true organic gardening (not using general hydro go box) the food is always available to the plant and she (or he) takes up what it needs when it needs it.

you are correct about the no touching part. we leave the soil in the pot and we do no tilling at all. the worms do all the ā€œtillingā€ we need. they also transport nutrients to different parts of the pot, add aeration, and they help prevent over watering.

basicy look at it like a spot of soil in the woods. never touched for years and years and teeming with life. now that spot is in a pot in your room. its exactly the same thing we are trying to recreate.

12 Likes
#4

I think this threadā€™s a great idea. Synthetic nutes have gotten inexperienced growers in more trouble than just about anything I can think of. Of course, you can always leave the expensive nutes on the shelf and build some good nutritious organic soil. :evergreen_tree:

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#5

I agree. They can be pretty strong. I see people cutting corners everywhere and they end up with even more problems, organic or notXD

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#6

@lotus710 do you get frequent nose bleeds ?? from the air being so thin up there on your horse ? :stuck_out_tongue: you know thereā€™s more than just notill KNF and synthetic salts itā€™s not just one or the other, but i support everyone doing whatever works best or is most convenient for them

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#7

my horse only smokes organic :wink: hahahahahaha. i know of several methods of gardening, hydro, natural, aero, and aqua, but im not sure of the ones you speak of. I totaly support every form of gardening! but if i can do my part to help you save money and help out the earth ill do it:)

10 Likes
#8

Itā€™s more clear. Please understand that for me, and for the moment, the difference is very subtle.

Sorry, as ā€œcoockingā€ i mean to mix the component like subcool do with his supersoil, to give a concrete example. Itā€™s how , too, i was first introduced to this mode of culture (~ten years ago). But iā€™ve saw him to compost too, so one stone twos birds ^^

Let me synthetize about the notill difference, indoor conditions only, to verify that iā€™m fully clear on it before going ahead :

  • living worms
  • vegetal mass companions (clove etcā€¦)
  • no composting
  • but no difference on the preparation of the soil that usual ā€œorganic supersoilsā€, sames components.

For the tilling, i donā€™t fully get it. Even in C30 pots, iā€™m unable to till anything even in surface. Roots donā€™t permit it. Or you totally crush them. What iā€™m missing on this part ?

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#9

yes no tilling at all. we have mulch and worms that keeps the soil nice n loose for you. for feeding you just throw kelp or whatever on the mulch and water it in.

3 Likes
#10

I get it now, perfect.

Context : Due to the use of mineral nutrients, iā€™m thinking in term of NPK rates and iā€™m adapting (very accuratly) the feeding chart on the line that iā€™m working on this basis. By example, i donā€™t feed the same way a skunk family and a masterkush family. If i use a skunk feeding chart on a masterkush, even my addicted cat will not try to stole me a single bud. It will stink and taste the hay by too many N. The reverse case is always true, the skunk will taste oily like seeded clone if i apply a masterkush chart because too many P. And she will be deformed and unreadable by the way lol

How to deal with that when you have to deal with plants that have nothing in common in term of feeding ?
You prepare different soils each time or it exist a trick to stay on the optimal margin with the same stock of soil ?

4 Likes
#11

no man, when you feed with chemical nutrients you are force feeding your plants and they take up what you give them. In a notill soil all the nutrients are there and the plant takes what it needs. you feed every soil the same and we dont stop feeding unless we stop taking from the soil. but that means harvesting and putting the buds back in the soil. now that would be incredible food for the soil and the next plant will do amazing but instead we use kelp, neem, aloe, etc.

6 Likes
#12

I will reformulate it, maybe it was unclear. Because you just losted me ^^

When you ā€œbuildā€ your soil, you choose the content like we saw in previous post. This is a way to get an optimal range, at one moment you make a choice that will represent the NPK balance rates of the mineral nutrients.

If i have to give more N to my skunk at a specific timing, how i do that ? Maybe in being more specific you will understand what i miss or donā€™t understand ^^

Damn you scared me with the no-no about chelates ^^
I canā€™t use my lovely humic and fulvic acids in this mode ? Say me that i readed it wrong please lol

4 Likes
#13

you can use humic and fulvic acid forsure. i used to use fulpower by bio ag. just make sure its a good source. lots of shitty stuff out there

now if you need to feed extra N right away you can make a kelp meal tea! or make an instant kelp tea.

instant kelp tea is rehydrated kelp that is blended into a smooth paste that you mix with water and feed without having to aerate the tea for 24hrs.

5 Likes
#14

pfeeeewwwwww ! ^^ Just for reference
Letā€™s dream about a perfect situation, where i can get only the best of the galaxy. It will be more simple for me to follow, this way.

Itā€™s when teas enter in the game, ok. got it.

Do you prepare bottles of differents teas to compensate the gap between needs ? Like specialized ones : tea for skunk, tea for this bitchy amnezia haze lol, tea for ā€¦ etc ?

If yes, i should stock them in a fridge ?

3 Likes
#15

you can get the best brother! if you cant then honestly you dont need it. good ole compost will have all the fulvic and humic you need:)

when making a tea you want to use it within 24hrs. you can make teas specific to a plants needs if you want. but when doing this we arnt feeding the skunk, nor the bitchy amnesia haze, we are feeding the microbes, insects, and animals in the soil, in return they help our plants eat:)

7 Likes
#16

i should also add. if you want to prepare some nutrients for instant use besides that instant kelp tea you can make ferments. what you do there is take fast growing plants like pea shoots, alfalfa, clover, stinging nettle, comfrey etc. then you mix these 1:1 with organic cane sugar. the sugar pulls the juices out of the plant using osmosis and you let it ferment for around 14 days. after that you strain it and bottle it. i use mason jars for my ferments. also dont seal the lid. we are breeding microbes, not storing them, they will make c02 and explode the sealed jar.

9 Likes
#17

It is what i missed in the equation i think. The intermediate mechanisms and how to control them. I start to see the light but the extrapolation stay hard. For sure itā€™s another world.

Damn 24hrs. It started to sound very good until this information ^^
The alternative of ferments sound more compatible with a fast SOG turn over, for the moment.

It will be far more easy if I flowered only one specimen at a time but unfortunally i canā€™t or i will need an entire lifespan for a single strain prototype ^^

Now the reverse consideration ā€¦

If i have to hit my specimens for selection, to decypher theyr expression/response, is it possible to ā€œsuperchargeā€ them this way ? I mean with ferment. Sometimes you have to push the limits to test linked traits.

And in the reverse, can i generate specific carencies in playing with the living intermediates ?

1 Like
#18

How is using chelates or chelated nutrients force feeding? I believe this is incorrect. This is a very good thread, not trying to cause conflict

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#19

Iā€™ve keeped the ion exchange subject for later ^^

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#20

sorry i will go fix this i didnt mean chelated just meant the average nutrients everyone uses.

2 Likes