Is Sand is the most underutilized but best media?

Basic Growing Info
#1

I’ve noticed anecdotally that plants growing in sand smell better and smoke better!

I first learned about IAVs sandponics a couple years ago. I always wanted to do aquaponics but it seemed a bit intimidating having to constantly monitored things and all the PVC needed. Aquaponics is often described as a balancing act and I describe sandponics as balanced.

About 10 months ago or so I bought some tilapia minnows off eBay. It was 25 fish I ordered and I lost about a half dozen that first week.

I live in the high desert and dug up the sand right from my yard. About one foot down is mostly a really coarse mountain/river sand. I took that sand and washed it with the 5 gallon bucket quite labor intensive just pouring the clay and silt off the top.

I eventually had enough sand to fill a under bed tote about 3-4 in deep ridge and 1 in deep furrow. I planted carrots lettuce peppers all kinds of stuff and a couple cannabis plants. I run a perpetual grow most of all my plants are in a peat-based soil mix. For every 10 plants in peat maybe I have one or so growing in sand.

I’ve noticed harvest after harvest about five or six in a row now that the plants in sand vs peat are notably better. Keep in mind this sandbed is only 3 inches deep and I’m growing autoflowers. Because of this shallow sand bed often these plants that don’t get too big. I don’t know honestly if the yields are better in sand specifically the stank is way stinkier.

Yesterday I rubbed one of the plants and sands sugar leaves and it smelled like straight shit and gas. That was the first time I ever smelt that rank of a smell. The other one I smelled was really like a delicious candy.

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the plants in sand have a more complex scent consistently.

I have absolutely no evidence to back up what I’m saying this is all anecdotal. I’ve been just popping Auto flower beans that I’ve made over the years.

Hopefully one of these days soon I’ll have a few extra clams so I can order a full truck load of concrete sand.

8 Likes
#2

The origin rock (the sand came from) counts for a lot as well.

Something reasonably inert like granite etc is probably better than sedimentary material (limestone etc.) unless you are also compensating for pH as well.

{edit} something like the white sandblasting sand might be a good source

Cheers
G

4 Likes
#3

:100: Beach sand typically contains carbonates same goes for typical desert sand.

Typically concrete sand is free of carbonates and well washed. It’s important that the grain size of the sand is medium coarseness to coarse.

Having the well draining sand allows for rapid air exchange at each flood cycle. Flooding the bed forces any stale air up through the ridge and then as it drains out the bed pulls back in fresh air.

It’s important that the sand is completely free of carbonates/ clay and silt. It’s easy to test for carbonates by putting the sample sand and a bowl and pouring vinegar over it. If there’s excessive carbonates it’ll be bubbling quite a bit.

7 Likes
#4

Plants love sandy soil the reason they do so well in Hindu Kush region…the whole thing is interesting. Eager to see your progress as I can get black river sand which is used in construction …I will test it for carbonates :slightly_smiling_face:

3 Likes
#5

Granite and Basalt dust are two of the only Rock type elements in existence that are Paramagnetic.They really help keep things in order.If you know a place that makes tombstones they will have a huge amount of it in thier shop might even give it away for free

6 Likes
#6

@Sandfarmer

check-in with @MissinBissin who grows outdoors in some sandy spots with excellent results !!!

5 Likes
#7

I think sand, that has not been processed, or in the wild, will have that local areas biologicals, all over each grain.
Like I add rock dust, when I mix up my medium for my indoor grows.
The RD is just a home or anchoring point for the biologicals that come from alfalfa/kelp/fish meal/ bat guano, as the LAB’s breaks those components down to become a biological herd. I create an artificial herd, you are getting it from the local sand, well it’s my theory anyway!!

6 Likes
#8

Interesting topic. I think it could be your particular sand as well. What type of rock do you have where you live? Concrete sand might work but I’d experiment in half your box instead of the whole thing and see if there is a side by side difference before changing the whole substrate, even if it is time consuming to gather. Maybe go 50/50…
One thing I’ve learned is that there probably isn’t any best way to grow great weed. It’s mastering whatever way you choose that gives a great result.
In regards to stinky plants…stress increases resin to.an extent and I find, terpenes too. Could be some stress from the shallow root area maybe
Sand doesn’t hold onto to nutrients. Isn’t good at it, in fact. Maybe the sand grow is flushed better at the end resulting in smoother smoke?

Where there’s smoke there’s often fire. Just need to figure out why.

6 Likes
#9

Here’s some more anecdotal evidence for ya… My old man grows 8ft tall tomato plants consistently and he’s growing in 15 gal fabric pots, about half home depot cheap bag soil & half sand from his yard… he lives at the beach, east coast US… his yard is all beach sand.
Those damn pots have to weigh about 75lbs each, dry. I had my doubts that first year when I saw him watering them… “Dad… that soil looks like soup… I don’t know if its gonna work out.” Well, it works so damn well he sends me pictures of his 8ft tall “soup tomatoes” every year and talks shit. He’ll drive up and bring a box with him… “figured you could use some soup tomatoes.” Come to think of it… I’m about due for the annual shit talking here in a couple of months.

Meanwhile… my tomatoes get their ass kicked from anthracnose and aphids. He’s killing me with cheap bag soil, beach sand, and municipal tap water straight out of the hose. He ended up having to wrap the fabric pots in trash bags/sit them in trays or they’d dry out before the day was up. Lots of sand is lots of drainage.

7 Likes
#10

This is very interesting to me as I have so much sand available where I live currently. I should give it a try and do a 1 or 3 gallon autoflower in it.

You’ve got my curiosity…hey free media. Imagine doing a living sand media in a bed ? That would be a trip…… maybe mixed with some breathing materials , perilite ? lol idk this could be a cool experiment …

4 Likes
#11

Sand is very heavy, which is why plant nurseries got away from it, but most plants generally do well in sandy soil, especially fruits

7 Likes
#12

Interesting, yeah that seems like it’d be a pain in the butt at a nursery. After the soup tomato incident, I started getting decomposed granite & sifting it through a window screen for the mineral portion for my organic mixes & cactus soils and adding it in heavier than I normally would. Can’t say I measured results before & after other than casual observation, but I’m happy with what I’m getting out of it & I can bring the landscaping supply guy a 6 pack of ice cold beers & he looks the other way while I fill up a 4-5 5 gallon buckets. Pretty good deal.

4 Likes
#13

Very cool information

3 Likes
#14

Sand itself is very breathable. A typical course sand is about 30% airspace. I don’t think it would hurt necessarily to add perilite but additional aeration may require more frequent waterings. Sandponics is living soil minus, silt, clay, and organic matter.

This guy deviated from the tested iavs methods by adding rocks in the bottom of the beds. He says it works better but the time I put rocks in the bottom because I was limited on sand it created a bit of a perched water table and hindered drainage. So I think if someone was trying to do less frequent water cycles adding the rocks in the bottom might be ideal.

Check out a friend of mine’s outdoor sandponic setup in Quatar.

5 Likes
#15

I appreciate you all for getting this thread going! Interesting concept. How do you go about nutrient retention? Cec of sand is super low…do you add organic matter? I’d imagine you’d have to feed more, but it’s an interesting style. Got me curious

1 Like
#16

Sand that has been Humanized (treated or shaped, like Cement Sand) will form a Layer and Suffocate a plant.

Natural sand is the best to use.

Like Perlite, the more the better. Your looking to ensure drainage throughout.
I use both, probably 10% sand in most pots.

When outside and its sandy, extra water and some Ground cover make good sense.

Good Luck @Sandfarmer
Thanks for the nod @Habitt

4 Likes
#17

Ive been noticing using more perlite has a tendency to rise to the top over time ive switched to using lava rock in my outdoor beds.The rock doesn’t float up at all and the aeration and moisture retention are pretty good you can break up the lava rock into smaller pieces if its too big.

3 Likes
#18

I live in the Midwest, USA. Any opinions on Ozark sand as a potential medium? I know the Ozark hills are made from decomposed fish and plant matter over millions of years (as opposed to stone) so it seems like an excellent candidate, but I am just now dipping my toe into the soil game with OLS using SIPs, coming from the world of hydro.

6 Likes
#19

Yeah looks like you have an abundance of perfect sand out there.

I call it concrete sand but this article here calls it construction sand… Essentially the ideal sand is a washed medium coarseness to coarse and mostly quartz.

https://dnr.mo.gov/document-search/sand-gravel-pub2903/pub2903

5 Likes
#20

Typically sandponics is set up like row crops with the plants planted in the ridges and the fish waste flooding the furrows.

So the furrow is the powerhouse of the whole system. Algae begins to grow in the furrow and the combination of algae bacteria fungus… Completely break the fish waste down into usable nutrients for the plants. This is actually one of the most fascinating things about sandponics to me. Even after years and years I’ve heard the fishes waste never accumulates more than like a half centimeter deep.

My personal experience in the beginning I was seeing some phosphorus deficiencies before the system was mature maybe the first 4 months. I then switched my fish food to a plant-based fish food because tilapia can only absorb something like 33% of plant-based phosphorus.

I also had some magnesium deficiencies going on recently. I think this is simply because my water supply is so hard. I get well water from the city with a very high pH over 8 and a lot of calcium carbonates in the water. I think the excessive calcium has been blocking out the magnesium so I started recently adding Epsom salt to the beds. My fish tank keeps a perfectly stable pH at 7.4 and only recently I started adjusting that down a bit to 6.5 before feeding the plants.

With sufficient fish according to the trials NCSU there was no additional fertilizer needed growing cucumbers and tomatoes. They even tested the nutrient content of the finished veggies and was in line with traditional field grown. Going off memory let me see if I can give you guys a rough idea of the trial. Initial stocking with something like 51 9 Gram tilapia individual tank per bed. The beds were something like 4x16.

I have occasionally hit my beds with anaerobic ferments roughly based around JADAM recipes. I have noticed a very nice growth response after the anaerobic application.

There’s a sub in Reddit with all the information you could ever want to learn about IAVS r/sandponics

My good friend along with Dr. Mark McMurtry recently wrote an ebook you can find here if you want a nerd out and support the cause.

I appreciate all the good questions this is a really big passion of mine.

6 Likes