Just hit a wall -- an electrical one!

Just searched for illustrations of peak when lamp is ignited and found this (about fluorescent tubes but similar peak applies to HID also):

###Fluorescent tubes
The theoretical peak current at switch-on can therefore reach 27 times the peak current during normal operation.
There is therefore a risk of contact welding in electromechanical control devices (remote-control switch, contactor, circuit-breaker) or destruction of solid state switches with semi-conductors.
In reality, the constraints are usually less severe, due to the impedance of the cables.

Source: http://www.electrical-installation.org/enwiki/Electrical_characteristics_of_lamps

##hid Lamps electrical properties

Mercury and high pressure sodium lamps can easily take twice the normal current during warmup, although most ballasts do not provide this much. In my experience, mercury lamps can take 2.5 to probably 3 times the normal operating current during warmup. High pressure sodium lamps can take even more, at least 3 and usually 4 times the ratio of nominal wattage to nominal arc voltage during warmup (in my experience) as long as rated wattage is not exceeded by more than 15 percent.

Source: http://www.lightingassociates.org/i/u/2127806/f/tech_sheets/hid_lamp_electrical_properties.pdf

And one more HID measurement:

So please count (for correct Amps) with switch-on peak when choosing your timers!

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Thank you Herbie

Yeah, looking at the big picture here. fire is no joke, not to mention one little problem could expose you and your grow. Of all the corners to cut a the power system is not one of them, especially if the room is unattended for long periods of time. It happened to me, I could have had a fire in 2016 due to a timer arcing out at the plug, it could have been a disaster, the other gardner I was working with caught the problem.

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I remember when the first gen digital ballasts were imported from China to the UK, they interfered with the TV ariels reception, often caught fire, there would be a fire reported in the soft secrets magazine virtually every month. I think the quality manufacturers do a lot more R&D before launching there products to the market. Its worth paying the bit extra for quality. And taking every precaution possible esp when mixing electricity with water in a closed in enviroment.

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I ran mag ballasts since the early 90’s. . never had a problem with them. I finally caved in and bought my first digital ballast in 2012, and within 6 weeks I had to return it… some moisture got into it and shorted the board it was the premium solis tec maxtrix ballast.

Oddly enough some of the newer CDM/CMH… etc require mag ballasts.

I’ve been running the cheap chinese ballsts from CAP, they seem ok. but I still get nervous around digis.

I will say the nanolux 315’s have been rock solid. Spendy, but zero issues with them. I hear not so good stuff about the cheaper ballasts like the phantoms.

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@GrowerGoneWild I’m still oldskool and run only magnetic ballasts. I hear all the time “but digitals they are dimmable” My response to that is if you need to dimm your ballasts / bulbs you havent designed / setup your room correctly :wink:

I can appreciate the option of a dimmable unit in some circumstances, but they are not for me. @MadScientist and @Baudelaire are slowly pushing me to try the new gen COBs, but for my situation its only the electric bill that would convert me from my 600w HPS and MH run on magnetic coils with capacitors. I just dont trust a digital circuit board and kettle lead type plug conector to run that type of current day in day out, year on year without problems such as 85% RH or a splash of water etc. My ballasts run with harmonised well insulated cables and 3 pin connectors that are found on most generators.

Quality

Cheap kettle type socket

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This post is copied from a grow shop website, the company Canatronics is now producing the units under the name GreenPower.

It explains how their contactors work;

Canatronics 6 Way Contactor with Grasslin Timer

Plants are incredibly sensitive to changes in lighting schedules, it’s really important to make sure your lights are reliably on and your timer makes sure they’re on at the right time. The Canatronics 6 Way Contactor with Grasslin Timer is a renowned high quality, ultra-reliable contactor for up to 6 HPS or MH 600 watt lights or 4 HPS or MH 1000 watt lights. Canatronics Contactors are the original name in reliable contactors and have been used by growers for years. Hand crafted in England, they contain the infallible heavy duty Grasslin Timer and a dedicated auxiliary heater output.

Switches up to 6 lights up with 4000 Watts total load
Easy to use
Dedicated auxiliary heater output
Features an integral Grasslin timer
HO7RNF fire resistant cabling
Wall mountable with attached brackets
Housed in a tough metal box

Canatronics 6 Way Contactor with Grasslin Timer Contains:

1 x Canatronics 6 Way Contactor with Grasslin Timer
How the Canatronics 6 Way Contactor with Grasslin Timer Works:

Most plug-in timers available on the market today will fail if they are used to switch on and off a load such as a grow-light ballast. The Canatronics 6 Way Contactor with Grasslin Timer will safely and reliably switch on grow-lights (and/or fans etc.) by means of highly rugged internal electrical switching components using the schedule that you set on the integral Grasslin timer on the top. The heater is circuited to come on when your light timer is off to offset the lack of heat keeping your plants in the ideal environment.
The Canatronics 6 Way Contactor with Grasslin Timer will switch 1 to 6 lighting ballasts or other electrical equipment with a total power consumption of up to 4000 Watts. Grasslin are very well known for making some of the most reliable timers in the industry. It’s all housed in a sturdy metal casing.
Using the Canatronics 6 Way Contactor with Grasslin Timer:

The Canatronics unit can be hung from a wall by the attached fixing bracket. With the unit unplugged, programme the timer on the front by moving the tabs on the face of the Grasslin timer to the outer position for those times that you would like power to be on, and set the others to the inner position for the times you would like the power to be off. Each segment corresponds to 15-minutes. A pencil or other small item can be handy for pushing the segments in or out with.

Move the timer-face clockwise until the current time lines up with the arrow. The hands on the clock in the centre will then also correspond to the correct time. There is an override switch to the lower-right side of the clock. This can be set to “0” for “Always Off” or it can be set to “1” for “Always On”. The centre position of the switch is for “Timed On” and this will be the normal setting for the unit when it is in use to switch your lights on and off according to your set programme.

Plug your ballasts, fans or other electrical items to be switched, into the sockets on the Canatronics Contactor Switching Unit. Make sure that the switches on the outlets are in the “On” position. Insert the rubberised mains plugs into separate mains outlets. Ensure the timer override switch is in the middle position. The contactor will now switch your lighting system on according to the programme set on the timer. No more than 6 lights should be switched by the Canatronics 6 Way Contactor with Grasslin Timer nor should more than 4000 Watts be drawn through it as this will cause the unit to be overloaded.

Although Canatronics 6 Way Contactor with Grasslin Timer can handle the switching of up to 4000 Watts, it is worth bearing in mind that traditional (non-digital) HID lighting ballasts draw a considerable surge at switch-on which is well more than their normal running wattage. 6 lighting ballasts being switched on simultaneously may cause the circuit breaker in your consumer unit to trip if that circuit is being run too close to its limit.

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About the CMH Lamps, I have no experience with them. In fact, this will be my first grow. My original plan was to go with the tried and true – HID. But, they are very hot and use a lot of electricity. So, I looked around for something else, and found CMH lamps.

Since my experience is limited, I looked for other growers who use them. If interested, check out this guy ==> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbdG-qEUruo. He found the growth with his lights (CMH, Gavita, and Spectrum King) produced the SAME sized top kolas. But, the CMH produced more tricomes – probably due to its wider UV spectrum. Because of this and the low up front cost, I went with the CMH. ==> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071GDSVZY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Note that the unit comes with 2 Phillips bulbs which cost $95 alone.

As for the light controllers, I decided to bite the bullet and buy one. Why? Better controllers are equipped with their own breaker panel which will trip off the lights if they over heat. Also, converting to 240 volts will same money on electricity bills. Here’s how – the equation is Amps = watt/voltage.

So, if I ran a 1000W bulb at 120V (1000/120), I would be using 8.33 AMPs

But, if I used the same 1000W bulb with 240V (1000/240), I would cut my amp use in half - 4.17 AMPS

However, even if the electrical cost was not present, I would still get the light controller for peace of mind.

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It reminds me of the Poot Lights I used to use in Holland where the ballast is attached to the reflector housing, looks like a nice peice of kit. I think you will find your in the right forum to ask any growing questions and be answered with a myriad of knowledge from the members here.

Well done on getting the correct equipment, its not worth taking shortcuts in the long run with electricity.

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I have been using CMH with a plasma for a year and love it. If i was pushing for max yield i would use two CMH or throw a HPS in with it. I use a light controller hard wired in for peace of mind when i decide to push my garden with larger lights. I have HPS and stick with CMH for quality and the lower bill is nice. The 3500 Par Source is the bulb i am using but i read the Philips bulb is better. Just wanted to give you some info, be safe.

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Out of curiosity… I know the OP went with a controller…

Do CMH ballasts come with internal timers?. Mine doesn’t have one, I guess I could google it…

And another thing I think the problem extends to multi taps and the breakers they have on them, this is why I dont buy 15 amp multi taps, I’ve had too many trip on me causing headaches and risking crop damage.

Mine didn’t but i don’t know about all the rest. Mine came from a promo and i can’t remember what brand. :disappointed:

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My CMH ballasts did not come with a timer. For this, I am purchasing a light controller with two triggers for two external timers. Mine is by GrowCo.

Is it the relay and timer version, if so you only use 1 timer, the timer triggers the relay and the load to the lights goes down the other wire that plugs direct into the wall.

Like the one in this link below;

http://www.hydroponics.co.uk/powerstar-2-way.html

If it is then 1 of the plugs go into the wall, and one into the timer and wall socket, leaving the single tail for the extension / double socket for the lights to plug into.

If it is that type it should say in th einstructions or have the leads labeld timer and lights, be sure to check that.

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I totally get it Herbie. But, my light controller will be controlling both my veg and flower room. I need two triggers and two separate timers. Thanks, you always give thoughtful replies.

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LOL Thank you.

If it is the type with a built in Timer just plug em in great, but if its the type with an external timer required be sure to check the cable for timer and lights they will be wired like that for sure.

I should know better but have been zapped while plugging the multi power input cable (Octpus) types in before. If the timers are in the on position the other plug(s) end becomes live not just the socket end. If your wall sockets have switches turn them to off while plugging those units in.

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Well the Nanolux CMH ballasts I have has a RTU port/plug… . The acronym is Remote Terminal Unit , I dont know if your’s has something like that.

Anyways, I dont need a external timer, I can control each ballast wirelessly via the DTU, Data Transfer Unit. So each ballast can be controlled via smartphone app or the cloud. NCCS.

I’m not trying to confuse the OP, just mentioning that some ballasts have network capability if one chooses.

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Very knowledgable people in here. Good quality information.

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Sounds interesting, could you please elaborate more on it? Maybe we could do a separate topic…

How many plants can u run under that cmh

There is no “one number fits all”…

That depends on grow style. Compare 18 plants vs 100 plants in same space under 600W.

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